Overselling and Underselling a Card at the Same Time

[Archive]

Posted By: Paul

This card was in the highlighted section of the pre-1930s cards on ebay, so I hope I'm not accused of outing it.

It's a terrific card. I'd love to own it. But isn't $50K a bit much? At the same time, the seller understates the scarcity of this card by comparing it to the T206 Wagner. From the listing, it sounds like the seller knows very little about cards. But somehow he knew enough to send it in for grading. Very strange.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1912-W-UNC-HONUS-WAGNER-PSA-4_W0QQitemZ180199728192QQihZ008QQcategoryZ73433QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Archive]

Posted By: Matt

What it sounds like to me is that the seller is hoping the buyer knows very little about cards.

Of course, I can't imagine there's someone dumb enough to spend $50k on a card without knowing some about cards.

[Archive]

Posted By: Paul S

Maybe he thinks that if he can sell two of them that he will become, before taxes, a hundred-thousandairre? Who's gonna give a person with an 89 feedback 50k? Something fishy here?

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

I wish the seller well with any sale, and I hope the buyer is happy.

As for me, I'd not send him $50 for that card.

[Archive]

Posted By: Fred C

Frank,

I did send the $50 offer. I wonder if they bite on it?

[Archive]

Posted By: Matt

I'm surprised the auto-reject wasn't used.

Anyone know what the insertion fees are on a $50k listing?

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave S

I believe that in reality that is a W555 Wagner that is super rare, one of 2 (with bat) that have surfaced?? And unless I'm wrong, both just surfaced within the last few year...

[Archive]

Posted By: JK

Not to turn this into a psa bashing thread (I think that is an obligatory statement nowadays) but I love the fact that its been graded a 4 despite the paper loss on the front on Wagner's hat.

Gotta love quality control.

Edited to add - in all fairness to psa, I suppose that could be bird poop on his hat and actually part of the picture.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

Who knows what it is but it's scarce. My guesstimate on value, in true vg, is about 1k-2k.....I paid around $600 for my Young but would have gone about 2.5x to win it.....

[Archive]

Posted By: fkw

There have been at least 4 of these Wagners on ebay in the last 8 years or so. At one time cards from this series were very rare but I have seen them pop up more often now, about 3 or 4 a year lately.

5 different cards are known. Commons sell for $500 or so and the Wagner in this shape is worth about $1000 to $1500.

BTW its not one of the W555's, its a totally different set now cataloged on page 539 in the SCD

[Archive]

Posted By: Fred C

The seller countered my $50 offer with a $35K price. Should I counter the counter with a $75 offer? He might drop it down to $25K.

[Archive]

Posted By: Steve D

The listing fees top out at 4.80 I think. It is the final value fee where ebay would make the big dough. If the card sells I'm sure the seller would not mind.


Steve

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Fred, you're on your own, you're beyond what I'd pay.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe

i am the seller of the card and i had no idea how much it was worth so i threw it up there for that amount to see what offers i can get. as for the grade it is definitely a psa 4 because that so called white spot the genius who posted about it is part of the cards design not bird poop or a mark. i do not understand what is so fishy about me with 89 feedback selling a card like that. if you check my feedback and see how long i have been a member and the fact i have not had one problem with ebay this should come to no surprise to anyone. thank you everyone for taking your time out to bash my card and my price and have a nice day. and to the jerk that bid $50 i countered that with 35k because you were being a dope so i was one right back. if you had noticed i did not counter anyone but you smart guy.

[Archive]

Posted By: Paul S

Joe -- Putting that card up with THAT price will immediately make a seller suspect, whatever your arbitrary reasoning. The second thing people will look at is your feedback: congrats on your 89 feedback, but that ain't much, and matched with your asking price, makes a person even more suspect.

[Archive]

Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Well I intended no offense... but I'm sincere in saying I'd not pay $50 for it, although I'm not the one that sent in the offer. Others here think it is worth in the low 4 figures, and they usually know. I pay way beyond catalog value for some cards I want. And I pass by bargains because I don't want the card in the first place.

With kind regards,

Frank

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe

i understand what you are saying but i have only been a member for three months and had over 100 successful transactions which overall is not a lot but for three months is pretty good. As for the price i do not know much about vintage cards like i said in the description i bought it at an antique place and i had no idea what is was worth. Then to my embarassment someone sends me a link saying they are making fun of my card when i am just trying to figure out what it is worth. It is very funny how people have the time to sit here and bash when all it would have taken was an email from someone about the card not put a whole message thread about it. Once again thank you to all of those who got a good laugh at this and have a nice day.

[Archive]

Posted By: Paul S

Joe, you misunderstand -- no one here is making fun of your card (if you come to know us well you will know what making fun of a card really is.) We are simply parsing the who, what and wherefors. Probably a lot of people here would not mind at all owning that card. I would. You might want to hang around, and the next time you come across a card you are not sure about you could post it here and get some good honest feedback. THEN you could put it on ebay with an honest price and probably get it too, and no one would worry about your 89 feedback being incongruent with a $50,000 card. If your card was worth $50,000 I would have expected to have seen it in a major auction house, and if you showed it here first that's exactly where we would have sent you.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe

so what is the card worth? should i go to an auction house i am looking for feedback on the card i did not know this board existed until someone told me how they are laughing at my price which might be crazy but i did not know what is was worth.

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

If you want to really find out what the card is worth why don't you start it at a minimal bid and let it reach its proper level? Everyone interested in it has seen it and it will sell for a fair price. You can find out yourself right on ebay.

[Archive]

Posted By: dennis

joe sorry if you were offended,no harm was intended. we are just a bunch of nerds who like old cardboard,and have some fun with ebay auctions. $50,000 is a bit high and if you watch ebay like most of us do you would see why we tend to poke fun at sellers and make fun of auctions. anyway, welcome aboard here and to answer your question my guess is the card is worth $2000-$2500. it's hard to really estimate a card like this because the set is not common. but the player sure is popular and the time frame of the cards issue is too.so as barry said list it on a 10 day auction and see what you get,and don't take offers to end it early as most bids will be placed in the last 30 seconds. good luck with your auction and please come back.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe

to be honest with you i do not really want to sell it but i kind of need the money and if it was worth alot i would be willing to sell it but if it was not worth the type of money i could use i would just hold on to it. if it is only worth $1,000 to $2,000 i would not even bother selling it but if it is worth $10,000 or more then i would think about parting with it thats why i did not put it at a minimal level.

[Archive]

Posted By: Brad

If I was interested I'd contact the seller wanting alternet references and ask why the card was listed at 50K.
He's a boradmember' or maybe he's a collector who's not familiar with REAR Wagner types (REAR Wagner's are known to fetch high prices), this is why "Joe" probably set the price extremely high with a Best offer.

You could do some simple research before bashing a legit collector/boradmember...

[Archive]

Posted By: fkw

The white spot is NOT part of the design. I have seen at least 4 different Wagners and that PSA4 is the only one that has the damage to the hat area.

Here is a scan of one, and there is another pictured in the SCD.


It is worth $1000-$2000. The SCD is fairly accurate on these because it has only been listed within the last year and the values are based on the few that have sold recently.

It is not a PSA-4 it is more like a 2-3 with the surface damage to hat area.

Bottom line..... If it wasnt overpriced by 20X+ then there probably would never have been a post about it and the card bashing. I believe any card that shows on eBay with a starting bid 20X more than its true value will always get bashed.

[Archive]

Posted By: Fred C

Joe,

As you probably guessed, I didn't know you were a board contributor otherwise I wouldn't have sent the $50 offer. I hope you weren't offended. I thought it would be fun. I'm happy to see you didn't bite my head off with your counter offer. Some people react that way.

Good luck with the sale of that card but I get the feeling you might be holding on to it.

[Archive]

Posted By: fkw

Fred, I was the one that showed him the link to the post. I was showing it to him so he can get a bit more proof that his $50K starting bid was completely ridicules. I didnt know he (Joe) would come on here and cop a bit of an attitude.

I was interested in the card, but only at the true value, and needed to show the seller this.

The auction with that crazy opening bid completely deserved the bashing IMO.

Its a learning experience for the seller (Joe), now he knows and like others have said maybe next time he finds a nice card he can get an expert or two to give him more of a realistic value to the card.

Joe please dont take anything personal, there are hundreds of the top collectors in the world viewing this board every day, it will help you in the future if you ever want to use it again.

Good luck with your auction, but you will need to relist it with a realistic opening bid.

[Archive]

Posted By: Eric B

I believe the SCD picture is the same as the other one.

[Archive]

Posted By: fkw

Hi Eric, I see that now.

I'll have to dig out and plug in my old computer and try to transfer the pics I have on it to my new one. I know I have pics of this series that go back about 8 years or so.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

Joe
Take it with a grain of salt. Think about it. You started a card at 50k when the book value is about 2k...(maybe a tad less). What do you expect experienced folks to do? Like I said I paid about $600, or so, for my Cy Young, about a year or two ago. Another board member picked up either Cobb or Wagner, I forget.....for about 1k, or so at the same time and both on ebay. All of these are in similar type condition though mine is a tad bit lower grade....The value on yours is what the others have said above, between 1k-2k- most likely. It's your choice what you want to do with it. I am not sure it would get more at a major auction house but it could get a little more. Good luck with it whatever you do....best regards

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe

i am not giving an attitude i am just saying someone could have just sent me an email about the card. I appreciate everyone giving me feedback on the card which is what i was looking for. All i was a little upset about was i put in the listing that i did not know what the card was worth at all and now i know.

[Archive]

Posted By: Matt

Joe - it's probably not a good idea to list something as a fixed price if you have no idea what it's worth. Either find out beforehand and then list it as fixed price, or start it at 0.99 and let the market decide.

[Archive]

Posted By: Anonymous

you didnt know what the card is worth but listed it for 50k? did you honestly think it was going to sell at that price? you know enough about cards to send it to psa but not enough to look it up in a price guide? and you are upset because people laughed at you? and then the sob story about needing the money but only if it is a lot of money. how much did you pay for the card at the antique shop? was it anyway near your listing price? or are you just using ebay to fish for offers and sell offline?

[Archive]

Posted By: Steve D

My guess is that the antiques dealer knew exactly what it was worth. And got that amount for it. Throw in the typical dealer speel of claiming ignorance regarding it and wham you get a 50k ebay staring bid.


Steve