help identifying two old baseball pictures

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Posted By: leon

I am trying to help a gentleman that I met on ebay identify these two old pictures or anyone in them. He seems to think there is a famous player in the smaller, infantry one? I don't see anyone I recognize right off the bat....I know this is a little OT for this side but figured I would abuse my priviledge as I don't post too much OT...and I am not sure who is on the board more than I am, according to the rules of posting OT....thanks for any help....btw, I did pick up 2 Plows Candy cards from this gentleman...and they were in the same box with these when he bought them. The pic with the guy in the hat, in back, is about 8x10 without frame, and the one that is of a military team is about 4x6..I left the smaller one as a bigger size to try to see it better, since it's light...he thought these might be worth a ton of money but I told him I doubted it.....thanks much...

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Posted By: barrysloate

Can you read what the flag says on the second photo? The only word I can make out is "champions."

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Posted By: David Smith

Barry,

Under "champions" it looks like it says "Division" and under that it looks like the date of "1919".

Maybe I am wrong thoguh,

David

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

#45 ....
90th Division
Champions
1919 VEP

Just a military baseball team...nothing special and probably in the $20-40 range.

The top photo is just some town team circa 1900 with about the same value. Nobody in either photo looks familiar to me and unless you have provenance that proves there is a famous ballplayer in the photo they're nothing special.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Dan has that lower photo nailed... the "manager" in the middle sitting is definitely in a WWI era uniform.

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Posted By: Anthony S.

This is a bit out of left field, but the fellow in the uniform (bottom row center) in the 2nd photo looks a heck of a lot like Christy Mathewson. And he was in the military during WW I, as we all know.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Dan is correct- that is a World War I era photo.

And neither of them looks particularly valuable.

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Posted By: Jeff Mohler

I don't know that this would a lot to the conversation, but the three letters in the lower right side of the flag are AEF. AEF stands for Allied Expeditionary Force. The AEF is what the American Army was known as in WWI. My guess is that the photo is an American Army team in France.

Jeff

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Posted By: barrysloate

Good one, Jeff!

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Posted By: leon

The gentleman knew the one photo is from 1919 as that is in fact what it says on it. He knew Matty was in the war too and was hoping that was him. I didn't see it that way either. If there are no other thoughts I will let him know our opinions tomorrow...I also thought these are $10-$40 photo's....the top one is rather large so that could add a few dollars to get to the $40....both are rather light though and I thought even IF a HOF'er were in one they wouldn't be real valuable...(maybe a few hundred to a thousand at very most...but the photos are just too light to be much, in my novice opinion)....thanks again....time for 2nds on the Turkey meal ....

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Posted By: PC

As noted above, the second photo appears to be a WWI era military team, probably taken in France (but not necessarily). Since the banner says 1919, the earliest that picture was probably taken was at the start of the 1919 "season", which would have been the spring or summer of 1919. But it could have been taken at any time during or after the 1919 season, or even in 1920 if the team pitcured were the 1919 "champs". Since WWI hostilities officially ended in June 1919, it is a good guess that organized baseball on the continent in the U.S. AEF -- with uniforms and a league -- probaby did not come into existence before then. But that's just a guess.

Regardless, Mathewson is not in that photo. Mathewson was back in the U.S. in February 1919, most likely long before that picture was taken. In any event, Matty had little time for baseball during his short time in France. He went into the chemical warfare division of the Army in August 1918, was sick with the flu when he landed in France, went to training after that, got grievously injured in a poison gas training accident, and was sent back to to the U.S. in early 1919 when he was well enough to make the trip.

Still, two interesting photos.