For set collectors: Set scarcity

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Posted By: nbrazil

What's the scarcest set you are currently trying to complete?

How many cards do you have left to complete the set?

Do you realistically believe you can complete the set? If not, what is a reasonable goal?

thanks in advance

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Posted By: Anthony

'16 Tango Eggs
I've got 9, jury is still out whether there is 18, 20 or 21 in this set. REA's reward for the missing 2 (or 3) got no takers, so 18 is looking a lot more plausible.

No prayer of completing it, whatever the number of cards. I'd be happy picking up 1 or 2 more, but it hasn't happened in the last 5 years. I felt pretty lucky upgrading a couple this year.

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Posted By: peter chao

Anthony,

So what did you do with your dupes? If you are not clear on the number of the cards in the set, how do you know when you've completed the set?

Peter C.

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Posted By: Trevor Hocking

This is a great question!!!

As a set collector I am working on a few sets but the N172's have always been close to me. That set will never be complete but as close as I can get is the goal. Also I have been working on the R306 Butter Creams (I only need 7 more, completion is the goal here), E254 Colgans (Need 80 more give or take, may never be done with this one as it is so though to find the rare ones). R318 Batter-Ups scarce because I am working on a master set with one card for each color available (have not counted how many I need but it can't be more than 50 or so). Great question. What sets are you working on?

Trevor Hocking

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Posted By: nbrazil

trevor...thank you for your thorough response.

I ask these questions because I am interested in understanding what the motivation is for collecting sets that are so scarce (or perceived to be scarce...and hence, the real obstacle is not merely finding the card...but more likely paying for it...think of the magie card [not financially back breaking, but more expensive than its relative scarcity]) that it is likely not to be completed. What keeps a collector of such a set going? What do they feel about the set knowing that likely in the end it wont be completed? What are realistic goals for pursuing such sets? I've always felt that pure set collectors are of a different breed compared to type or player collectors. It's the journey that counts...but the icing on the cake...the cherry on top...is that feeling that the set is finally complete. Is there an empty feeling in one's gut knowing that the set will never be completed?

I guess it also depends on personality and personal finances. A person who is VERY focused would find it difficult to push a set aside for a long time because cards were harder to come by. A person who is financially well off could keep the set on the side and pursue other collecting interests.

I am currently pursuing only two pre war sets...T206s and 1915 CJs. Neither are scarce relative to their T and E brothers. I went after d304s and d303s awhile ago...but couldnt financially sustain the pursuit. I hope to complete T206s all the way up to magie...maybe plank (so, definitely no wagner, doyle, cobb with cobb back). I plan to complete the '15 CJs...with a beater jackson.

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Posted By: Trevor Hocking

Well these are great questions? I think the chase is the best part and when I get done with a set I am a little sad the chase is gone. So when I complete a set I usually move onto a new set. I have also been working on a SGC 1915 Cracker Jack set and that has been very fun as well. I just picked up 10 more this week for it The Jackson, Cobb, Wagner and Matty will kill you in the pocket book but you can always get as close as you can and then maybe get lucky and get a nice find or hit the lottery (I think I would go for the lottery in todays hobby Sets are funny for me because you can get commons in most set relatively cheap comapaired to the HOFers. Heck even Leon has started set collecting

Trevor

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Posted By: leon

I am collecting a type card set of one of every catalogued baseball card before 1945. It is within reach. I am also doing a master set of D303 with General Baking and Mothers Bread backs. It is less possible than the type set, I believe. I still need about 65 cards of the 96 .....

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Posted By: Rob Dewolf

I'm trying to put together an R306 Butter Creams set and am about halfway there. I have little prayer of ever getting the Ruth, so I'll be content when I acquire 29 of the 30.

I've actually considered trying to compile a "master" set of 58, which would be each card with the two different dates on the back. But if I do that, it'll be after I own 29 different fronts, regardless of their backs. That likely isn't the smartest way to do it (I probably should pick up whatever cards I need in respect to the backs whenever I see them), but that's the plan for now.

This is the first set I've collected since putting together a set of 1954 Dan Dees about 15 years ago. I started and quickly bailed on a 49 Leaf baseball set 2-3 years ago simply because it was too frustrating shelling out major bucks for short-printed common players. Plus, it became apparent pretty quickly that I wasn't going to have the patience to stick with it for the years that would be required to complete it.

I normally focus on collecting cards of only Cleveland players but was drawn to the Butter Creams for a few reasons. They're scarce, there are a few Indians in the set, there are only 30 cards in the set and there are a nice selection of HOFers but none that command lump-in-your-throat prices (with the exception of Ruth). Plus, for whatever reason I like the fact that the cards are black-and-white and not all that attractive.

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Posted By: Scott Mosley

I've been collecting both of these sets off and on for 30 years but have gotten more serious about them in the past year or so after finishing off T205 and P2 sets.

Like Trevor, I too felt a bit of sadness in finally completing these sets but have enjoyed moving on to another challenge. I've found that moving on to something new has been much more rewarding than worrying about constantly upgrading my T205s and fighting a registry battle with a guy that has unlimited funds like Bill C.

If all goes well with a couple of trades that I've been working on, I will soon be sitting at 47/50 of the Crofts Cocoa set.

I lost out on card #48 to another collector on this board but am hopeful that they will give me first crack at the card if and when they decide to sell.

The other two that I need are commons which I've never seen offered for sale but I'm hopeful will turn up down the road.

On the W555s, I've got 53 different out of roughly 69 known but one of these is uncatalogued (soon to be catalogued) and there are likely a few more out there still to be discovered so "close as possible" is my goal on that set.

Being a set collector on scarce sets like these definitely takes time, patience and (yes) some money.

I like to think that I have two of the three requirements above (never enough money) so, hopefully, there is a fighting chance at completing one or both of these sets at some point in the future.

As far as what keeps me going, it is definitely the chase for and finding a card that has eluded me for a long time and finally adding it to my collection. The wait can be difficult at times but the sense of satisfication from having reached that goal increases the longer you've had to wait, IMO.

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Posted By: Steve Murray

Still working on a few sets:

1906 Sporting Life Postcards. 15/16. Need Detroit.

1911 Zeenuts. 114/122. In my opinion this set cannot be completed as it requires the impossible Bohen card.

1911-1938 Zeenut run. 26/28. Need 1934 and 1935. Very difficult as the 1933-1936 are identical and you can't tell which year a card is without the coupon.

e100 San Francisco sub-set. 4/5. Need the Weaver to complete.

1906 Ullman Postcards. 9/12. Likely cannot be completed as the Henry Mathewson is in a private collection and will never see the light of day.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

I am working on the E121 set with the Henry Johnson Confectioners back. I figure I'll be doing this for the rest of my life.

This set is currently classified as a W575-1 set, but many believe that they're just blank-backed E121s. There is a checklist, but I'm unaware of anyone who has ever built a complete set. As such, I do not believe that anyone knows how many cards were actually produced, or if a complete set is even possible. I know of a handful of type card collectors who have one or two of these in their collection, but do not know if anyone possesses any of these in quantity.

I've reached out to multiple collectors and only been lucky enough to find a "hoard" of these (seven, to be exact) on one occasion. I've spoken with a few long-time collectors who say they've seen no more than a dozen or two in their lifetimes.

At this point they're not at all expensive like Tango Eggs are, but they are still very tough to find. Despite fairly constant digging, I believe I've tracked down 6 or 7 in the last year.

I currently have 20 different cards from the set, including three Hall of Famers: Ty Cobb, Red Faber, and Johnny Evers. Aside from the checklist, which I believe was compiled under the assumption that the H-J checklist should mirror the W575-1 checklist, I am unaware of anyone who knows exactly which cards were produced, in what quantity, or where they can be located. Given that, I don't know that it's possible to complete the set - my goal is to just keep buying or trading for them whenever I'm lucky enough to find one. I suspect I'm the only collector out there who cares enough about them to try and find more than one or two, so it's not like there are tons of resources for me to track them down.

-Al

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Posted By: E, Daniel

so why do you care about them?
Is it just the rarity, or the fact so little is known about them and they are out of mind of most collectors?

Kind of like a 'how obscure can you get' comp.


Daniel

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Daniel, I latched onto a Cobb a year and a half ago or so for a decent price. I didn't even know what I was getting until it arrived and I did a little research on it.

I tend to get wrapped up in these "puzzles," and in the process of learning about them, I stumbled on to 4 or 5 commons, by accident. So I bought those, too. I thought that owning them might give me some more insight into the Cobb.

As I was trying to understand the scarcity of the Cobb, and the story behind the cards themselves, I found very few actual answers to the many questions I had about them. In the process of trying to answer the questions, I picked up a few more.

As I picked them up, I realized that nobody really cared about them. The only people that seem to be actively seeking them out are people looking to fill a hole in their type set. There is no registry that exists, and very few have been graded.

The idea of building a very tough set where the main barrier involves actually FINDING the cards was appealing to me. Acquiring these cards reminds me of the "good old days" where the thrill of the chase is paramount, and the only real "value" from a monetary standpoint would lie in having a large number of these. They're relatively ugly and unappealing to most collectors who want to assemble a beautiful set, and I've yet to find one that would grade higher than a 5, so the high-grade collectors don't chase them - so I don't have to slug it out with everyone under the sun to acquire them. Plus it's a set where there are no "scholars" like there are for, say, T206 or '33 Goudey, so the process of trying to find answers to the questions is fun to me.

I figure that by getting my questions answered, I might be able to provide more insight into the set for cataloging purposes, for people who want to collect these in the future. Assuming anyone ever does.

Nothing more complicated than that.

-Al

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Posted By: Anthony

<<So what did you do with your dupes? If you are not clear on the number of the cards in the set, how do you know when you've completed the set?>>

Peter- I sold one dupe to a board member, the other sits in my ebay store.
As far as knowing when I'm done, I think that point is moot. I won't get anywhere near 18 cards, I'd be happy with 1-3 more.
I've got 2 sets that are missing 1 expensive card in each ('15 Jax and '33 Lajoie) and am almost positive I'll have those completed long before I see another Tango I need.

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Posted By: Bob

1911 Zeenut 113/122, will never be "officially" completed for the reasons Steve mentioned. There are also 3 of us pursuing this set who share about 7-8 cards that we all need, so chances are slim of getting too much closer. Still, it is a very nice looking near-set..
D311 Pacific Coast Biscuits. the only way to complete this set is to buy a complete set, and sell the dupes. I am about halfway through but have officially thrown in the towel.
1911 T207 Cycle back subset. I have the entire set but have been putting together the Cycle back subset. It is very tough, but doable...
1910 E94 George Close master set of all colors. Still plugging along. Theoretically doable but getting those last 3 Cobbs and 3 Wagners and 2 Youngs is going to cost a king's ransom. There are some commons in gold and olive green which are proving a pain also...

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Posted By: E, Daniel

I kind of knew what you'd write but like reading your posts - so therefore the prod!

Make sure to write up a paragraph or two about what you now know and questions you might have re this issue, and stick it on a web site somewhere. What you and many collectors are doing in reassembling these obscure sets is creating a picture (or fair guess of a picture) of their origins that have likely been lost for 80 years, especially where the extremely short printed local issues or survivors have meant relatively few sets were ever assembled or kept.
If you decide to get rid of them one day one-by-one, any insights you've gained will otherwise most likely be lost.

Great stuff, my kind of collecting!




Daniel

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Will do, Daniel.

And while we're on the subject, without hijacking the thread too much, big props to the source of my most recent H-J pickup - Peter Ullman, who sent me a very nice Bob Veach in a trade. It arrived in the mail about an hour ago.

-Al

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Al - if you build it, they will come.
What happened to the w502s?

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Posted By: ockday

I'm attempting a T207 scarce back "master" set of 150 cards. This will contain the 50 scarce back cards with 1 each of the Cycle, Broadleaf and Anonymous (factory 3 or 25)backs.
I have about 100/150 cards so I am about 2/3 of the way there.
I think it's doable but will take another couple of years to complete.

Alan

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Gil:

Some puzzles are just too tough. I gave up on the W502s.

-Al

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Posted By: Jim Dale

The T206 backs set intrigues me; and I buy one every now and then when I see it on ebay - I would like to think about getting the set with all HOFers but first I think I'll just go for a low grade set and them move it up over time - yes its achievable in a year or so. As I've watched nearly all of the backs come up from time to time. There are a few that seem to make the whole set unfeasible - the Cobb back for instance.

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Posted By: Jim VB

I am a compulsive set builder. Always have been. I have a complete Topps run from 1964 through present. Prior to that I have sets of 1953, 1955, 1958 and 1959. I'm in various stages of working on all the rest. I completed a 1933 Goudey several years ago. I'm about 65% through a T206 set. I even have, and/or am working on, many non-sports sets.

But... the one that haunts me is different. Fifteen years ago I was told by several hobby "experts" that I had a complete set of 1932 NY Giants Schedule Postcards. I own 18 different cards and both versions of the Hubbell. It was not cataloged at that time. Thinking it was complete, I stopped looking.

Recently (2006 or 2007) The Standard Catalog listed the set at 22 cards. Old Cardboard lists it as 20+. It turns out that in 2005 REA sold a near set of 18. Their lot included 4 cards I am missing, but I missed it (because I thought mine was complete.)

Since that time, I have seen exactly ONE card from the set for sale (and not one I was missing.) I have talked to one collector who has the 4 cards I need, but of course, I also have 4 cards he needs. Neither of us is interested in selling.

So, in summary, I am a set collector of a set so rare that I haven't purchased one card in the last 20+ years. I guess I'm not very good at this "set" thing.

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Posted By: nbrazil

"Since that time, I have seen exactly ONE card from the set for sale (and not one I was missing.) I have talked to one collector who has the 4 cards I need, but of course, I also have 4 cards he needs. Neither of us is interested in selling. "

Think he'll break and sell anytime soon?