ebay buyer not happy - advice

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Posted By: rob

Ok, so i have a question. I sold a group of Goudeys recently and this was the description with the card in question (mind you, all the cards had the same description but had a different name obviously and all the cards were scanned on the website I provided). the listing itslef had a tiny scan with it, but naturally I assumed anyone interested in the card would access the website provided and clearly listed:

You are ONLY bidding on the SGC 10 Carl Hubbell 1933 Goudey card, number 230. More detailed pictures of all cards for sale can be on the following link: http://picasaweb.google.com/rgutheil/Album ... Shipping is $4.00 and $1 for each additional card won. There are no returns on graded cards, sorry. I will ship immediately if I have done business with you before, otherwise I will wait for payment to be received. Please ask any quesitons.


Now the following is an e-mail I received from the buyer of this card:

I had NO idea how to go to your "link" of more pictures(I tried but,but I couldn't download the pictuers.Why didn't you just put the pictures on the eBay listing page,it's doesn't cost much.
It was kind of decieving how you show the smallest picture of the Hubbell card you could,next to another card.
YOU KNOW IF YOU SHOWED THE CARD WITH EVEN A HALF DECENT SCAN,YOU WOULD'T HAVE SOLD THE CARD FOR EVEN $30.00.
I've been collecting for over 35 years,and I HATE this grading CRAP!!!!!! IT RUINED THE HOBBY !!!! Graded cards will soon be faded out.Just like inserts.
I WANT $10.00 back or a FULL REFUND.You could have put multiple creases,and paper loss in the description,insted of trying to hide how POOR the card was in a TINY scan.
What did you pay,$20.00 for this piece of junk.
I won't leave feedback until we can work this out.
Thanks,
Allen
I've done card shows for over 20 years,NOW I KNOW WHY.eBay is a JOKE.
I've done card shows for over 20 years,

Now the following is my crafted response which I have not yet sent:

Let me see, how should I respond to your aggressive, asinine e-mail?

I am not sure I could have been any more clear in my description. I provided a link for you with all the cards I was selling. You did not have to download anything. Nothing about this was deceiving.

I also said "please ask any questions". That would provide you with the perfect invitation to ask how to access the link, which I could have told you. In fact, anyone who is remotely computer literate could copy and paste the link, but apparently you are not.

I also clearly stated, there are no returns on graded cards. So, despite three clear reasons why I should simply say sorry you are out of luck, you decide to barrage me with insults, employing the caps lock key for emphasis, and making demands. Your interpersonal skills are poor and I am sorry you are not satisfied with your purchase, but it sounds like you are more frustrated with yourself or with your computer skills.

I will have to consult with my business associates regarding this matter and will get back to you in due time.



I am sure many of you will just say return the money (it was only $39) and be done, but the abrassiveness of the e-mail makes that the last thing I want to do.


Rob

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Posted By: barrysloate

You're going to get more than $39 worth of aggravation here...also, I would never assume everyone is computer literate. He probably did see the scan, but boy, this is such a small amount of money, how many insults are you willing to throw back and forth?

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Posted By: rob

You are probably right on all accounts Barry, perhaps I am just in shock at the craziness of his e-mail that I feel the need to retaliate. I should sleep on it and send him $10. But part of me wants to dole a bit back at him...

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Posted By: Eric

I think you covered yourself pretty well.

1) You provided a link so potential buyers could see an enlarged image of the card they were bidding on.

2) You state: No returns on graded cards.

3) You state: If you have any questions, Please ask.

You can't be clearer than that. It sounds like you're dealing with someone that is computer illiterate and should not be bidding on ebay to begin with.

I guess the only question is: Are you willing to take a hit with negative feedback?

He has no case. It's all up to you.

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Posted By: Rob

i am running win98 + firefox and NO OTHER SOFTWARE, and i saw the pics in the link just fine. No downloading to my hard drive or anything.

I think the card presents good for a SGC 10. I've certainly seen worse. Why is he bidding on a card that he can't see in the first place? Like you said in the auction listing, ask questions!!!!!

If you have perfect feedback, maybe offer him a refund MINUS SHIPPING. If you are already below 100%, then don't offer him anything. And certainly don't offer him $10 back, especially the rude way he contacted you. If he was nicer, maybe you could be nicer. But I wouldn't be.

Good luck,
Rob

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Posted By: Anthony

Refund all of his payment, including shipping. Block him from ever bidding in your auctions again, and post a link to the auction here so any of us can do the same.
Sorry you had to deal with this, every once in a while you encounter a nutjob.

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Posted By: rob

the only defense a computer illiterate would have is the link doesnt come on ebay where you can click on it. You actually have to copy and paste it. But that hardly seem to be the main issue here.

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Posted By: John

I wouldn't bother arguing with the clown. If he is too ignorant to follow directions or read descriptions and oblivious to what a POOR 1 is, he shouldn't be buying on ebay.

If he emails you anything back, I'd simply write him back to refer to your terms. NO RETURNS on graded cards much less no threats of partial refunds, etc.

He's probably going to neg you no matter what you do so I would not give in and give him a thing. If he does, you do get to reply to it in your profile.

Also, how did he pay? In the event this clown wants to try and file a claim with paypal, save all of the emails, pics, etc... Have you left him feedback? He deserves a negative.

I wouldn't budge on it.

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Posted By: Eric

I saw the link no problem as well.

I don't know about offering a refund. You say no refunds on graded cards. I mean what did he expect for an SGC 10? For it to be Mint? I mean come on.

Of course if you have 100% positive feedback, this decision becomes a lot tougher. This guy sounds like someone that would definitely leave negative feedback if it is not resolved the way he wants it to be.

And jabbing back at him, probably made him angry as well, and less likely to forgive. Not that it wasn't justified on your part, but who knows with this guy.

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Posted By: rob

He sent me a check, I left a positive, I have not yet deposited the check.

edited to say I ave not yet responded to hi, that was the message I wanted to send.

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Posted By: Brad Green

Rob:

Sorry you're having trouble with this guy. I wouldn't assume, though, that everyone will be able to access your website from the computer that they use to bid on eBay. For example, it's entirely possible that this guy surfs the web at work and his employer has blocked his access to many websites on the internet -- including your website. I know my employer has blocked my access to many websites, including my own personal website. This doesn't excuse that the fact, however, that he could have emailed you and asked for a larger scan.

Brad

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Posted By: rob

point taken Brad, although I highly doubt that occured in this situation, it is good to know for future reference.

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Posted By: ErlandStevens

If you want to stick to the facts in your response (nothing deceptive), then I think that's fine. I wouldn't get critical on a personal level. The buyer got personal, and it bummed you out. There is no reason to return the favor (especially since the buyer seems to have enough on his plate already). If the buyer is not satisfied, then I would offer a return. I don't like the buyer trying to negotiate his own terms. Despite his complaints, he apparently still wants to keep the card. If he wants it, then he should pay what he bid. Heck, the underbidder wanted it for $38. Time-wise, giving him the $10 might be your easy way out, but I think he should either pay or return the card for a full refund. Regardless of what you decide, you are the one in the strong position here. There is no need to go down to his level. (He seems like a longtime collector. Maybe he's just having a bad day.)

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Posted By: Eric

I guess there's something I've learned here tonight. From now on, I'm going to wait to leave feedback when I sell something. They buyer leaves first. And only for reasons like this.

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Posted By: Zinn

When did ebay start to allow links? Several years ago I had listings bumped because I had a link to my website in my listing.

On point:

1. Don't send the email;
2. Email the buyer and tell him you'll be happy to rebate $10.00 once his check clears;
3. Give him a positive and expect the same in return;
4. Life's too short. Aggravating yourself just isn't worth it.

Zinn

P.S. I hope that your avatar isn't an indication of the scan you posted on ebay.

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Posted By: rob

Eric, thats a great point, and one I wondered about for a while now...I guess we have our answer as to why people wait...thanks!

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Posted By: Eric

Here's another option.

Don't give him the satisfaction of getting the card for $10 less. Tell him to send it back to you, and you'll refund him the check.

Block him from ever bidding on your auctions as was stated earlier, and then resell it on ebay. You'll probably get the same amount back without the hassle. In your auction, you get one free pic when listing. Then in your description, add the pic from your website in HTML coding. That way you can list pics for free.

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Posted By: rob

The card actually only sold for $35, the $39 included shipping.

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Posted By: Tim Newcomb

It's ironic, isn't it, that the big auctioneers get away with murder in their descriptions (not picturing or mentioning back damage, writing, etc.) and refusing all refunds (and yes, I do speak from recent experience).... [Barry is excepted from this grumble ]

And then small-scale ebay sellers (in which I include myself) cover all their bases in their descriptions, and still get hammered by lunatics and malcontents on $39 items.

Rob, I'm afraid this guy will not be made happy no matter what you do. You may have to reconcile yourself to a negative, but it's hardly the end of the world especially since you can respond to the neg, and no doubt the phrasing he uses will make him look like the fool he is.

What I would advise is that you tone down your reply (avoiding words like "asinine") but politely refuse to do a thing for him. Tell him the transaction is closed. Then block him from your email. Let him splutter impotently-- he can't hurt you.

Best of luck,
Tim

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Posted By: Chris East

Rob,

Just based on your description of the situation and his email to you, my guess is that if you decline the refund/partial refund, there's about a 99% chance he'll hit you with the negative feedback. If you give him the refund/partial refund, there's about a 50% chance he'll hit you with a negative anyway.

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Posted By: Rob Dewolf

I agree with Eric. The last thing I would do is let him have the card for $10 less. I am convinced a good number of eBay buyers complain about every purchase they make and offer a "settlement." My guess is that a good number of sellers agree, just to avoid a return and subsequent relisting of the item. If you're going to do anything for the guy -- and I'm not sure I would -- I'd suggest letting him return the card for a refund, minus shipping and eBay fees.

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Posted By: Ken McMillan

Rob,

i would not let the buyer try to negotiate a deal. I would keep it clean and trade paper for paper. Let him send you back the card and you send back the check to him. The buyer needs to know that "Let's make a Deal" is no longer on the air. My guess is that you are in a no win situation and odds are he will leave a negative regardless of what you do. I would also be concerned about his check bouncing. At least if you have the card back, you are only out ebay and postage fees. I really wouldn't trust this one. To quote the Rolling Stones, "You can't always get what you want". Also, the card on the link was very clear, the guy must have been stupid or blind not to see the condition of the card.

Ken

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Posted By: Randy Trierweiler

I had a similar problem with a buyer over a baseball coin. I had a great scan and called it ex-mt. Buyer paid, I shipped, and left him positive feedback. A few days later I got an e-mail stating the coin was poor-fair condition and he was not happy, asking what would I do for him. I gave him a full refund, but told him we were light years apart in our opinions of the coins condition, but I wanted him to be happy. I got a positive feedback in return. Just make a non emotional decision about the situation. I say give him $10 and move on. Tomorrow is a new day.

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Posted By: Dave F

Rob,
Wow what a mess over a few bucks. I'd also say give him his money back..tell him to send the card back with a delivery confirmation (on his own dime)...then I'd return his check...rip it up or whatever. Just amazing how some of these people are on ebay.

Dave

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Posted By: Scot Reader

Rob,

There are some great people in this world and there are some losers.

This guy seems to be of the latter ilk.

Refund him his precious $10 and move on.

Scot

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Posted By: Jim Dale

He bid it, the auction said no returns, let him pay it. If he provides a negative then do the same. Its not right that some people can bully a seller because they now think its not worth what they paid for.

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Posted By: Silver King

Hey Rob,

Unfortunately you lost your leverage by leaving positive feedback upon receiving his check. I've been burned worse than this scenario and I've changed the way I do business, I always email a few days afterwards to confirm delivery and satisfaction. Once the buyer emails back that they are happy then I leave positive feedback and ask them to do the same. As for your case, I think you should email the buyer and tell him that you are willing to make him happy in exchange for positive feedback and explain that you have sold many items using the link and that other bidders in the auction had no trouble. I would first offer to take the card back since other bidders are willing to pay for it. If the guy balks, then refunding him $10 might be worth it to keep your feedback. If you don't mind taking the negative then I would send the email that you intended.

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Posted By: Ken W.

Buyer should return the item for a FULL REFUND. "The customer is always right." (Who said that)? If he doesn't accept those terms, this is a scam. Then, do nothing, except block him. Don't worry about the feedback.

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Posted By: Jimmy

below I stated the same thing on another post, bottom line there are losers and winners

"same problem happen to me once, I had 100% feedback for so long - I have been selling on eBay for almost ten 10 years. I sold some 1950 Bowman cards and the condition was a bit off and yes maybe I should have graded all of them accordingly, but the buyer still was not pleased - I offer full refunds myself even with graded items. I told the buyer to keep the cards and I will send his money back as well, still gave me negative feedback. The Hobby is fun, but in every business you get bad apples. After that I had a plan to have my own website and try to have more products off eBay, because you just never know what will happen. I still like ebay very much, and still have auctions and a store, but sometimes folks get out of hand to try and get the best deal or even free. I do much beeter with sellers that buy my pre-war items"

Take care

Jimmy
eBay ID jbsportsauctions33

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Posted By: rob

As much as I would like to stick it to this guy, I am going to just ask for the card back and tear up his check. At the end of the day, anything else would be more of a hassle for me, I try not to waste too much time on negative people.

Anyone want a Carl Hubbell, SGC 10 for $35

thanks for all the advice, and lessons learned.

Rob

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Posted By: rob

I offer him a full refund, then go to my ebay account and see he has left a negative!!!!

Its go time...

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Posted By: T206Collector

You never should have left him a positive feedback. I almost never leave a feedback until I get a positive feedback -- especially when you are dealing with a moron. You have no way to retaliate.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1933-Goudey-Carl-Hubbell-230-SGC-10_W0QQitemZ140132664274QQihZ004QQcategoryZ86844QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

But you can and should respond to his comments in your feedback profile.

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Posted By: T206Collector

...you can link the photos in Picassa straight into your ebay auction so that the photo shows up with your text. It is free and your photos will be bigger and higher quality.

An example of a recently closed auction in which I linked my photos from Picassa:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=007&sspagename=STRK%3AMEUS%3AIT&viewitem=&item=170126490654&rd=1&rd=1

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Posted By: Dave F

Go cash his check this morning.

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Posted By: Dave F

Paul is right..good way to get around fees...I do the same thing through photobucket. If you need help with how Rob I can "attempt" to tell you..lol

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290118901551

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Posted By: T206Collector

I just sent Allenf1645 the following comment:

"You left a negative feedback even though you (a) chose not to look at the better photos and (b) were offered a full refund? I will be blocking you from bidding on my auctions and will be recommending other sellers of pre-war cards do the same."

I then went to My Ebay > Bidder Management and added old Allen to my list of blocked bidders. It is a list of 1 -- him!

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Posted By: boxingcardman

Tell him to send back the card and you will send back his uncashed check provided you receive it within a week. Leave it at that. If he sends back the card, send back the check, notify ebay of a mutual cancellation and get your fees back (would also stop a negative) . If he doesn't, do NOT deposit the check into your account. Take it to a check cashing facility. Check cashing facilities are allowed to cash checks that are bad and then look to the check writer for repayment, even if he stops payment through his bank.

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Posted By: Zinn

This is the way one should list his/her items on ebay. Very nice presesntation from a board member.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120138275221&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fse arch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm37%26satitle%3D 120138275221%26category0%3D%26fvi%3D1

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Posted By: Peck

rob

You need to respond back with negative feedback. He is only a 35 and already has two feedbacks mutually withdrawn already. Your's will be number three. No need to get verbal, just promise a refund in exchange for a mutual withdraw of neg's.

Also, be sure to respond to the feedback he left for you.

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Posted By: Jim Dale

But this is a buyer I'll add to my blocked bidders list just based on what I've read. Who needs a buyer like this in the market place. I'll reiterate - keep the money. He has no leverage now that he left you a negative feedback for not doing his homework. Respond to the negative too and blast him.

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Posted By: Ken McMillan

noticed he has been on ebay for only 4 months and has 3 issues with 3 different people......that means loser. Neg him and move on. as long as everythinf else is positive in your feedback, who cares about this guy.

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Posted By: Joann

1. Cash the check. Now. Fastest way possible. It's only a matter of time before he figures out that the stop-payment fee is cheaper than the actual cost of the card. Once you have his money, you are on even ground for negotiating.

2. Up until he left the neg I would have talked refund (no discounts). Now that you have the neg I'd either keep things the way they are, negotiate a withdrawal of neg for return, or try to get the auction reversed and neg removed.

3. Block him from bidding. Then when it is all resolved one way or another send him a link to this thread so he can see that people have blocked him because of his behavior. (BTW - add me to the list of people blocking him - I don't need feedback headaches with what should be a completely routine ebay deal. Gads, where in the he11 do these people come from?)

Tough break. Really. It shows it can happen anytime to anyone on ebay.

Joann

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Posted By: Steve

Rob

Im confused, you sent the card before you cashed the check?

Also, where abouts in Westchester are you? I'm in Briarcliff Manor-Ossining

Steve

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Posted By: Eric B

No mutual withdrawal is possible. He already left a positive.

The best thing to do is call the bank to see if a stop payment has been placed. If not, cash it. If so, that's even better....he just paid $25 to put a stop payment on the check, but they are only good for 6 months. In mid-January cash the check. He is out the stop payment fee.

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Posted By: Mike

As a seller, I absolutely refuse to leave feedback until I've received a positive. It is the only leverage you have to avoid these type of inconveniences. Tough break. I was thinking of bidding on the card. The pictures were very good at showing the cards true grade I felt.

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Posted By: Fred C

Rob,

You can put all of the disclosures (no returns on graded material) you want in an item description but you should also include a list of major defects in the card you are selling, even if it is graded an SGC10. Including the major defects in the item description will greatly decrease the chances of this very issue from occuring. Yes, you provided a link to the better scans of the cards but some software packages are made to block links for security reasons. Some computer users may not understand this and you'll get the same ration of crap as you are from this buyer. If you don't include a large scan in your item description then don't assume that the link you provide will be available to the potential bidder. With that said, I would hope that anyone purchasing a card graded a "1" or "2" wouldn't be expecting a pristine pack fresh card but some people are looking for that bargain which isn't there.

I would just tell the buyer to either return the card for a refund (less shipping charges) or refund him the $10 they're holding you hostage for. Either that or the buyer is potentially going to rip you one way (feedback) or another. You have to ask yourself, is the money worth that kind of aggravation?

Good Luck!

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Posted By: mr. moses

as a buyer I no longer leave feedback for th seller if they haven't left it for me. I did MY job when I sent a good payment....

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Posted By: JK

. . . And the seller did his job when you received a card in the mail as described in the auction.

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Posted By: Fred C

I'm with Moses on this... I don't care if someone leaves me feedback or not. If I'm a buyer and I pay for the item then I met my obligation FIRST and the seller should leave the first feedback. I can only recall a couple of auctions where the seller sent me the item first. They did so knowing I was good for the payment because of past transactions.

I'm not a big feedback fan so I don't really care if a seller gives me positive feedback or not. If they don't then I'm kind of inclined not to bid on their future auctions unless I see an absolute bargain. Oh yeah, I don't leave feedback for the seller either.

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Posted By: Tim Newcomb

There's no point now in giving any discount or refund. The buyer has the card, the seller has the check. Cash it and move on. If he has stopped the check, you should demand the card back, or report him to ebay.

I have never received any negs and would hate to get one, but I also know that one or two negatives out of a large number of transactions is really nothing, especially when it comes from an obvious malcontent who is having issues with half the sellers he buys from.

I agree with the posters who have commented on the small scans. Not every ebayer would be able to reach those links you set up, and a larger scan through ebay's hosting service is always a good idea.

However, I don't agree with the poster who argues that every part-time seller should have a detailed verbal description of every card whether it's graded or not. What are grading services for anyway? "SGC 10" and a good-sized scan should be enough for any buyer to make up his mind.

When Mastro, Lipset, and all the other auction houses start supplying detailed verbal descriptions of every $50 card they sell, graded or not, then the rest of us should have to. Until then, no way.