Worst Experience Collecting

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Posted By: Dylan

I just recently had close to 400 dollars stolen from me in a transaction. Paid and never arrived, seller no where to be found. Also, with all the posts regarding counterfeit cards made to look legit, i was curious to know how many of you guys have been a victim of either cards not arriving after paying, or receiving a counterfeit and being unable to receive refund. Maybe some can share there own "worst" experience, I'm sure I'm not the only one

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Posted By: Steve M.

you are not the first, nor will you be the last. I had an experience that I am way too embarassed to talk about.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

About $30K - I got it all back but the stress (at that time) was really bad. Lots of A-holes out there, some braver and some more stupid than others - but A-holes none the less.

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Posted By: Dave

Luckily I haven't been taken for any money...yet. I did come close. When I first got into vintage cards I bought two 1933 Goudey cards a Dazzy Vance and a Joe Cronin. I didn't know enough about the set when I looked at the scans online. I paid $125 for both. When I got them in my hands the backs were in black letters on really white cardboard stock...looked way too fishy even for my uneducated eyes at that point. Luckily I raised enough cane with the seller that I was able to send the cards back and get my money back. I don't buy Goudey's anymore. Luckily with my passion being T206's I'm pretty confident I could spot a fake T206, now some of the other pre-war cards...I don't have that confidence as of yet. I think it can be hard to know for sure until you get any card in your hand. I've seen plenty of scans of T3's, but never held one...so I'd feel less than certain I was buying real until I got hold of a couple.

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Posted By: John S

I had one rip-off on eBay...seller cashed my check, never sent my item, and did not respond to emails, etc. I did get about 75% of my money back through eBay. Not bad for over 1000 transactions but I am usually very careful about who I buy from. I took a chance with a seller that did not normally deal in cards and had marginal feedback...and lost.

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Posted By: Steve f

Dylan, I hope you can get retribution somehow.

I've bought counterfeits raw in the past, was able to recoop mostly and been scrood on a couple, for maybe $300. But, now that I can spot the shams (thanks to boards like this). I see MANY buyers taking the shaft far deeper.

I now enjoy messing with the scammers accounts and fighting to get them NARU'd, though they often return as an alias. I hold a severe grudge. Good luck

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Posted By: joe brennan

One of my first transactions on e-bay I got ripped off. Seller had all the red flags, except I didn't know anything about red flags at the time. It was for a Jordan rookie card. M.O. low feedback, no card. I was alerted by other e-bayers after I already sent money. Got 75% back from e-bay and learned a quick lesson that hasn't happened again.

In Rememberance of James W. Brennan Sr. 1924-1982. Dad, thanks for everything you did for me.

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Posted By: Mike

In the early 90's I gave a couple hundred dollars to a very well known national dealer, as a down payment, in hopes that he could find a Foxx Diamond star for me in grade 7 (or at least the equivilant of a 7 at the time) or better. You got it, no card and no money returned. Lesson well learned.


Edited to add, we had agreed on a price, but after he supposedly located one, he upped the price well beyond what we had agreed upon. he told me to take it or leave it, and that he wasn't giving me my money back, because we had a deal...what a schmuck.

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Posted By: Dave

Sorry to hear about your bad experience Dylan. I was ripped off back in 2001 by an Ebay seller in Pennsylvania. After doing some research I discovered he had ripped other people off during the same time frame. I contacted the other buyers, and we all contacted the police department in this guys town. To make a long story short...the guy ended up being prosecuted, and eventually paid back some of our money, and we got the items as well !! It turned out the seller was a college punk who had was trying to make quick money for drugs.
Similar story just ran in our local paper about a kid in Northern Ohio who was listing bogus cards and autographs to try to make money to buy drugs. Apparently he was caught at a small time card show after selling a fake Cracker Jack Mathewson

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Posted By: MVSNYC

too embarassed to say...but it cost my friend & i $2000.

if something sounds "too good to be true", it probably is.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Blatant fakes doctored to look old so they made it past the scan. Never got my money back.

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Posted By: Mark Evans

I've got several. I bought a Goudey Ruth from a dealer at the Chantilly show some years back that was rejected by SGC as a reprint. I was able to track the dealer down and get my money back. Number 2: I stupidly sent $100 cash in the mail to an eBay seller who denied receiving my payment. He was later banished from eBay. Finally, I bought an autographed Mantle ball that is quite possibly the work of convicted master forger Greg Marino. By the way, if anyone out there happens to know the kinds of balls Marino used, please let me know. Mine is a Rawlings 1981 WS ball. Thanks. Mark

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Posted By: Joe Tocco

I was taken for $800 on a pre-order for some football cases in 1998. A criminal created a shell corporation, pre-sold the cases under its name (about $30,000), then the corporation declared bankruptcy. No money or cards. I'm sure a judge or jury would have "pierced the coporate veil" and found the scamster liable, but he was in Nebraska and I in California, and the only interested Nebraska lawyer I could find wouldn't touch the case for less than $1200.

Joe

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Posted By: Anonymous

I bought a set of Goudey HOFer reprints for $20 in 1974, which was a lot of money back then. I thought I was sitting on a goldmine for 20 years before I figured out they were fakes.

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Posted By: shane

I sent a kid $1100 for a 1954 Ted Williams Wilson Weiner card back nine years ago that was "too good to be true." The kid was 25 years old and had ripped off five others totaling $25,000 that week. We tracked the kid down and then tracked his parents down. Nothing was ever done about our money or his future.
If this is the worst I get burned in my life time, I will consider myself to be a lucky man.

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Posted By: Sean

Back in 1986 I purchased my first pack of Topps and continued to spend every penny I had for 10 years (probably totaling $5,000+) and I sold them last year and got a $100...

Buying cards in the 80's and 90's was the biggest rip-off.

Sean BH

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Posted By: barrysloate

I think everyone, myself included, has made some very bad deals at one time or another.

Sean, that is an extraordinarily small amount of money you got for those cards. I remember in the 1980's buying vending cases and pulling out all the Dale Murphy cards and selling 10-15 of them as an investment lot. At the time, those kind of sales were very popular. Today, a group of 15 1982 Dale Murphys might get you a pack of chewing gum.

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Posted By: Glenn

Hmm, where to start? Several hard lessons learned, one at a time. I guess the theme is I'm an easy mark, or I was for a couple of years anyway.

1. Counterfeit OPC Gretzky (never got my money back)

2. Counterfeit Sport Kings Thorpe (persuaded the seller to give back 2/3 of my money with a C.O.D.)

Also paid $99 for PSA membership because I was initially so excited about receiving the two above cards. D'oh!

3. Clemente rookie (buyer claimed it never arrived and got his money back through PayPal -- I received a refund 8 months later from the USPS)

4. 1956 Mantle I didn't receive (I filed claim through PayPal, someone broke into my account and closed the case, I eventually got it re-opened, seller harassed me and my wife with early morning phone calls for several weeks thereafter -- then called one morning as the package had been returned to him undeliverable because he had smeared my address. That's the closest I've come to getting the police involved.)

5. This whole fiasco: http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1118432552/ebay+warning-+jshefts

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

I was ripped off when those fake second chance offers first came out for $1200 and another $800 on eBay when someone sold a fake E97 Young. I was able to get some of the $800 back from eBay and a collection agency however on that one.

The one that burns the most is being ripped off by a board member I had known for almost ten years however. To this day, this person lies about what happened, but most people with an IQ over 5 have figured him out. He lives in CA and I live in VA, so it would cost me more than the $883 he ripped me off for to pursue it in court. So, I am simply going to wait around for the Nationals starting this year and go to every one - hoping to meet this person face to face.

Again, hate this happened to you Dylan. At least you are not alone however.

Scott

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Posted By: ScottIngold

Scott,

Just curious, Is this an active board member ?

If so please tell. I would like to know as i buy from most here from
time to time.

I'm sure others would like this info as well.

If theres a thief in our midst we should know.

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Posted By: Mike

At the Cleveland National a few years ago, I had like $500 in my pocket in a rubberband. Sure enough I had a little hole in my pocket and $200, slipped out of my pocket as I walked in. Man, that was upseting.

Mike in Michigan

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I have had nearly 100% positive experience in this hobby, but I did have a small problem with a seller recently who I will never deal with again. Randy Inman auctions out of Maine - formerly Philadelphia I believe. I won an ebay live auction lot from them that was supposed to be a lot of old baseball photos, an 1880's Our National Game album and a Orcherade baseball fan circa 1910. Before I bid on the lot I emailed and asked about the photos because they weren't shown in the auction picture - the response I got was "too many to list, a very quality lot"...so I took a chance and bid knowing that at the least I will get the Our National Game album which has 6 lithographic pages of early baseball scenes and the Orcherade fan and a bunch of mystery photos. I won the lot in Late November and I emailed the company a few days later because they did not send me an invoice...they finally sent me one a week or so later, but it did not have shipping information on it, so I emailed them again and they said I had to pay some other guy for shipping...no problem I called the guy who was their shipper and he told me to call him back because he was holding up a 100lb mirror at the time...so I called him back about 30 minutes later and he said that he was on the freeway headed to Florida and that he would call me back...so he called me back and took my address and said that he didn't know when he would be back from vacation, but when he got back he would mail the stuff to me...I asked him how much the shipping was and he said just to wait until I got the stuff and then to go ahead and pay him...well approx 4-5 weeks passed and I still hadn't gotten the stuff so I tried to call the shipper and he said that it was on it's way to me via UPS and I should have it within the week....when it finally came to me I opened it up and there were no photos, the Our National Game album was completely gutted and was just a front and back cover..the fan was really nice though. So I called Randy Inman auctions and all I could get was an answering machine...they never did call me back after repeated calls to them so I turned it over to ebay which did absolutely nothing for me - they wanted me to take it to an appraiser to have the stuff appraised??? - I told the ebay people that the stuff I was supposed to get was not all there...how could I have it appraised if I don't have it???? They still denied my claim. Well a few weeks passed since I got the stuff and the shipper calls me and wants his $35 for shipping UPS Ground which cost him $7...I told him the problems I was having with Randy Inman auctions and that if he could get them to contact me that I would send him his $35.....I have yet to hear from Randy Inman.

Check out this guys feedback...it was bad enough before I bid in his auctions and I ignored it thinking I will be one of the lucky ones, but I wasn't....I don't know how this guy can stay on ebay...he has flat out ripped off a lot of people for way more than he got me for.

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=inmanauctions

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Posted By: Mike

I bet a lot of people were ripped off during the early years of Ebay, when everyone's feedback was low. Now, feedback can be one of the most important aspects when it comes to buying vintage cards.
Now, as for my BEST experience ever, I was walking into the National in Cleveland and found $200.00!!!(Just kidding, Mike)

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

I will not mention his name out of respect to Leon - not wanting to get anything started on the board. I do give Leon kudos, as he did try helping me recover my money from this individual with no luck. Leon even mentioned taking donations from the board to pay me back what this person stole, but I don't want hand outs. I have made this person SEVERAL offers to make good. I even told Leon to tell him I will buy a card from him (through Leon) and simply subtract the amount he owes me - he would not do it. Finally, Leon gave up on him as well as myself. It will be NICE if he is in Cleveland this year and I can meet him face to face about this however.

Like I said, I am not mentioning any names on here. However, if anyone who doesn't already know who I am talking about wants to know this person's name as Scott did, simply e-mail me at tycobb@adelphia.net and I will provide the information. Scott, I already sent you an e-mail with the person's name.

Happy Collecting,

Scott Elkins

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Posted By: joe

I paid 1150.00 for a raw T205 on EBAY on December 6, 2000. The seller is from San Antonio Texas. It took about a month for me to get it back from SGC and it was deemed counterfeit. I talked about this card on the board before, has a shiny finish like laquer. Emailed and talked to seller on the phone and he said it was to long of a period to get a refund, said I could have switched the card. He also claimed it was originally in an SGC holder and he took it out because he did not agree with the grade.
I contacted SGC and they could not help either.

I sent letters to Postal Authorities, Ebay and other government offices, no results.

He is known by at least one person on the board.
I don't think he comes to this board though.
He still sells and buys on EBay, not very often though.
I send him notes now and then asking how he feels about ripping someone off, but he has never responded.

I still have the ebay printouts and correspondance for this ripoff.



Joe

Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Posted By: Darren

I paid for several HOF T206's in Ex condition (including Young portrait, Cobb bat on, Lajoie throwing) by check and have never seen the cards. This was my first purchase on Ebay about 6 years ago.

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Posted By: Jim Dale

Have to say I've been extremely lucky and never had an ebay experience like so many mentioned on this thread; but my worst experience was seeing at least one big time dealer shill bidding (power seller no less) and eBay do nothing about it. He's still on there, I don't follow his actions any more to know if he still shills or not, but I just don't trust the guy as far as I can throw him. He's a table dealer in Southern Cal as far as I can tell.

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

Everyone has had kind words and regrets my situation - it is really appreciated, as I thought some might have said I was whinning like before when I mentioned this.

What is really sad is that several of the people who e-mailed me have also had run-ins with this person who ripped me off. It seems this person has sent SEVERAL board members vile and threatening e-mails. I knew he was doing this, but it seems on a larger scale than I thought. Also, what is sad is that a lot of these people have reported him to the FBI and nothing has been done about this individual - he continues to "run wild". Well, I also reported him to the FBI, along with several others around the same time he ripped me off. Nothing was done then either. I even contacted his local police dept. That is when I was told I would have to recoup my money in civil court. This is when I decided to handle this situation myself, in person, at the National (if he doesn't show this year, I will be like a Cubs fan - waiting until next year).

I don't know if Leon would allow it on his site. However, I have thought long about having a section on my website with people's names who have ripped people off, altered cards or done anything shady in OUR HOBBY. I have always thought this would help out everyone. The only requirements would be that you have some type of proof regarding your statements. What are everyone's thoughts on a thread or section like this? You can e-mail me at tycobb@adelphia.net and let me know. I am more than willing to do this on my website. I am almost certain that Leon might be interested in doing this here as well, as it would be great for the Hobby. I would love to hear input on this from everyone - either here in this thread or by e-mail. I will also be more than willing to share everyone's thoughts who e-mail me with Leon, so he could decide whether to do this on Net 54 as well.

Again, feel free to e-mail me at tycobb@adelphia.net or post your thoughts here. Also, thanks again to all who e-mailed me already - I really appreciate the kind words.

Scott Elkins
eBay I.D. - croftscocoa

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Posted By: leon

My only concern is that if there is a "thread" or area where these "bad" folks are mentioned is that there are 2 sides to most stories. I am not sure I want to get in the middle of mitigating and having a trial for folks. I am not saying that folks shouldn't be taken to task (* I believe it was me who said you could post what you wanted about this person quite a while back)....so I am not trying to protect anyone. I just don't know if I want this kind of thing on the board, permanently, with all it entails. Right now I am undecided....

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

I agree with everything you stated. That is why I have not done anything on my board like this yet and am asking for people's opinions.

There are two sides to every story - that is why the only requirement would be proof of what happened. This could include a before and after picture of an altered card, or the copy of a money order you sent someone for an item not received. The one good thing that came from being an insurance agent was that I learned to keep ALL paperwork relating to everything. Thus, in my situation, I have all the proof of my claims (although, I know several might not).

Again, just trying to get a "feel" on people's thoughts regarding a thread or section to where people to avoid could be listed along with proof of prior bad deals.

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Posted By: Marty Ogelvie

I keep a list taped to my monitor of ebay usernames that have gotten one over on me in the past.

Fortunately, its not a long list.

martyOgelvie
nyyankeecards.com

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

bought a h.r pufnstuf dvd, says buy it now 9.99 I snapped it and while I bought the the frickin Partridge family for 29.99, 10.98 shipping...that she listed the buy it now at the wrong price. Says it was supposed to be 39.99....it this my fault ? Isnt this a legal contract ? It should be legal for both parties.

she states that Iam allowed to pick another dvd at the same price- whoop-de-doo. Like I was to know that it was an err.

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Posted By: Chris

Dave...that college guy in PA didn't happen to be at a Penn State branch campus and sold a lot of unopened vintage material on Ebay?.....If so, I paid a personal visit to him to get my money back(and he had no idea I was coming). I have never seen someone so scared to death. Long but great story....

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I hate dredging up old threads, but I thought it appropriate here to say that Randy Inman has finally contacted me within the last week and tried to make things right. I'm not certain what happened, but since I could get not response from him I contacted the Maine Antique Digest with whom he has been mentioned numerous times in articles....he may even be an advertiser with them, I don't know, but for whatever reason he has decided to make good so I didn't want to leave that out of this thread.

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Posted By: Ken W.

Early in my prewar collecting:

I bought two CJ's for $60 per off of eBay. The players were Honus Wagner and Eddie Plank! Do you think they were real? I then bought an OJ John Ward, an OJ Billy Hamilton, and a Mayo Dan Brouthers from another seller and paid a total of $112. Again, what was I thinking? Lastly, I was one of the idiots who fell for those stupid Whitman Puzzle "cards" that are always being sold by that guy who has his own bogus grading company, AAA! Oh yeah, there was the Mayo Cap Anson that looked like it went through the wash 'n' spin cycle (so as to hide the fact it was from that 1986 reprint set (of which I think should be outlawed). In all of these, I have only been screwed about $400 total so I won't cry anymore.

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Posted By: Dylan

Well Ken sorry to hear you fell for the reprints. I hafta say though, i could never imagine spending any real money on something before investing some time into learning about it. And even before I knew anything about vintage cards except that the HOF's sold for many times more then the commons I realized that there were plenty of educated buyers on ebay that if a card was real it would sell for somewhere near its value. There are good deals to be had, but anytime you see a CJ Wagner selling for 60 dollars you know someone is throwing away 60 dollars.

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Posted By: JK

Ive been lucky enough to have not been ripped off by anyone on ebay yet. My worst experiences have involved lost cards. A few years ago I sent an e98 cy young plus another e98 common to SGC for grading via UPS - I started getting worried because it never showed up on UPS's tracking as being in transit. Unfortunately, the package was never delivered to SGC and is probably still floating around in the UPS system somewhere. Shortly thereafter (and I mean within a month or two) I struck a deal with a board member for an sgc 50 (or psa 4) e93 cy young and a psa 6 e93 delahanty at what would be considered great prices by today's standards. Those cards were lost in the mail and never arrived - fortunately the cards were insured in both instances and nobody ended up being out any money.

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Posted By: Scott Levy

Dumped about 1k into a (soon to be found out) bleached Snodgrass. We needed the variation too which is what made it so damn upsetting.

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Posted By: Dave F

Scott, how did you end up determining it was bleached? Or did you send it for grading?

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Posted By: Jimmy Piccuito

I was at a show helping a dealer and we found out that a good customer of ours ran off with at least 5,000.00 worth of stuff and continued to steal more. The sad thing he was doing it to other dealers as well. He did finally get caught by another dealer and was arrested, but nothing really happen to him. I think he is still selling on eBay.

Take Care Jimmy

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

Doctored cards of the 1955 Clemente rookie, 1953 Bowman Berra etc in excess of $10K from one of today's most active card doctors. He can be seen regularly hanging out at the GAI and SGC booths since PSA has banned him long ago.

Frank

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Posted By: E, Daniel

Frank, is he a board member/contibutor?


Daniel

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Posted By: Adam

I have only had one bad experience. It was on eBay and it involved a seller who wanted payment only by money order (it was for a high priced Mickey Mantle card). I bought a post office money order and, after waiting a solid month for the card, I contacted him since I still had not received the item. He claimed he never received my money order and thus he never sent me the card.

So I went to the post office and filled out a "missing money order" form, paid some money for the post office to process the form, and then in a few weeks the post office sent me a photocopy of the back of the money order with the guys signature on it. Then I filed a complaint against him in small claims court in California (it can all be done by mail and since I am lawyer, it was pretty easy for me to put everything together). I attached to the complaint a copy of the document from the post office that had his signature on the back of the money order. It was really a case that would be impossible to lose and thankfully the guy realized that and ended up sending me the card in exchange for dropping the small claims case (I should add that I was able to determine, through public records, that the guy rented a house in California so I ended up suing the guy's landlord as well just to show him I meant business . . . I think the argument was something along the lines of "but for Person A renting his house to Person B, Person B would not have been able to commit this fraud and thus Person A is properly a second defendant").

It took a good few months to resolve the problem, but it ended up getting resolved (though it cost me maybe $100 or so in court filing fees).

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Posted By: Dylan

Wow Adam interesting, i usually assume that people looking to scam wouldnt actually own the card or item their listing. This guy actually owned the Mantle and just decided he'd rather keep the money and his card

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Posted By: quan

adam great story. only time i wish i was smart enough to have been a lawyer after reading it.

probably half the board know about my worst experience, i don't wanna ruin the experience for the new people just getting in .

..another thing, UPS suck. i would avoid them like the plague. between josh and tbob there's an entire e98 set floating somewhere thanks to them, as well as countless other horror tales. i've had 2 $2000+ lcds damaged by them...yuck!

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Posted By: Pcelli60

Got a real nice T205 Speaker that was touched. He claims he didnt known it. Dispite the 25 years experience his business card states, he should have known it. I was still new to collecting the set. I did have the presense of mind to take it the PSA tables at this show. Without them I purchased a 650 card that would not grade..Got a full refund and have not purchased from this dealer in 5 years.
Pcelli60

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Posted By: howard

I've been lucky since my worst experience only cost me two bucks and it was my fault anyway. I bought a '68 Oliva that turned out to be a Dover reprint.

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Posted By: Fred C

Two words:

"Crazy Canuck"

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Posted By: Steve Murray

Now that is a name out of the past!!!

I well rememebr a bad deal with him. It was an ebay sale. Naive boob that I was I sent him the cards upon receipt of his check. Damn check would never clear through the Canadian banking system for some reason of the other. Probably still have it somewhere. He always promised to make good but never did.

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Posted By: sean

I just recently got duped into buying a 1960 ty cobb signed fleer sight unseen for $475 that was supposedly psa/dna from an autograph catalog I received in the mail fro a Joseph Butler. He seemed very legit and knowlegable over the phone. He todl me to make the M.O out to a carl meyer. a week later I started thinking about an auction form a few months ago where I won a signed 33 goudey. I got emails than saying the guy was selling fake autographs. So I looked up that transaction and they guys name: carl meyer
I went "doh!". I looked at his ebay user name and guess what he bough that wek: an unsigned 1960 fleer ty cobb as well as about 10 other cards that appear "signed" in this non pictured catalog. Needless to say I freaked and called and called and called. I went to the post master general - nothing. I went to the police - nothing. Turns out he has ripped two other people I know off to the tune of 30k. STILL nothing from the post master general. Apparenlt he works with COACH'S CORNER. what a shock! his ebay user name is sonnysports. Here is an example of things he buys: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130036738791
Gotta love coachs corner!