Too many off topics again....suggestions?

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Posted By: leon

Again I feel there are becoming too many off topic posts. Heck, I posted a thread with an E98 question this morning and got nary a response. That's fine no big deal. Maybe no one knew or was interested. It happens. The issue is when I look down the front page there are almost as many, if not as many, threads about things other than our cards or collecting our cards....I think talking about pre-war collecting is fine...and of course the cards are fine but everything else so much? I know I can put a few day moratorium on OT posts but is that the right thing to do? I am open on how to get the board back on track...I have my own ways but want to see if anyone else has a better way. I wouldn't mind seeing a few less threads if they were all card based or related subjects as is the focus of the board.... Am I off base? (pun intended)...regards

ps....this is not aimed at any one person that has started an OT....it's a general question...

edited to add that, depending on how you count them, about 1/3 are technically off topic, imo...is that too many?

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Posted By: Dylan

Well i for one like any thread related to old time baseball. I love to learn about the cards, but there's more to baseball then just old time advertisement pieces. I really enjoy learning about the players, debating stats and their historical significance. Now maybe their are other forums for this but I think many of the people here are as knowlegable as they come and enjoy the baseball related threads. As for off topic threads that have to do with modern collectables or dont even involve baseball, those should be kept few and far between. But I certainly dont think there's anything wrong with a thread or two everyday that has to do with prewar baseball but not necessarly pre war cards. Just my two cents.

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Posted By: dennis

before you post think....what does this have to do with pre war baseball cards? if you cannot come up with an answer don't post it here. there are sport talk forums out there for all this OT stuff. read the forum rules "Pre-WWII baseball cards and related subjects" so there is room for baseball history,grading etc...keywords BASEBALL, prewar ,cards.

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Posted By: quan

from a young g's perspective...

1. if u have to put o/t in title, don't hit respond...
2. if u have to put o/t in the title, do NOT hit respond
3. no need to post trivial daily events, that's what yahoo news, tmz, and espn.com is for
4. we get it, youtube is cool...enough with the links
5. stop hijacking threads, this is not the water cooler
6. try using the search function more
7. this is a pre WWII board, where the holocaust, Green Peace, and Rage Against the Machine don't exist, no need to veer toward them...that'll save the 300 posts threads and getting off-course
8. more card talk, less emphasis on the slab please
9. use common sense and you can figure out whether seller should give feedback first?, should i buy insurance? best way to protect myself from being scam? if you're still not sure, email jeff lichtman or peter spaeth. i agree with most of their views
10. if 2 minutes have passed and the refresh button shows no new message and you want to start an O/T topic to get the board going again...DO NOT HIT RESPOND.

i hope the combination of sarcasm/truth/levity is right.

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Posted By: barry arnold

Thanks for standing back and thinking through these things, Leon.
Your investment in bringing about the right and the good on this board
is much appreciated.
I am basically a researcher and thrive on research issues related to my
beloved T206s, as you know.
I personally would like to see O/T reigned in a bit,perhaps a limit of
10% or so, with the hope that vintage card research might become primary again.
I've sent you an email Leon.

all the best,

Barry

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Posted By: Anthony

What Quan said.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Despite Quan's insinuation, I have never hijacked a water cooler.

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Posted By: Ed

(delete)

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Posted By: bigfish

You nailed it. How many people will listen?

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Posted By: barrysloate

Leon- there are two ways the board goes off topic.

A thread may start with an interesting question but veer off course somewhere in the middle. I think that is natural, similar to two friends having a conversation that heads in a different direction. At that point the original question may have already been answered, so the digression isn't a big deal.

But the bigger problem is when someone starts a thread that has nothing to do with vintage cards, and covers himself by apologizing for the off topic post. I noticed this morning someone started a thread about which of two boxers would win if matched up against each other. I think you have the right as moderator to delete those without any fear of retribution.

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Posted By: leon

So far so good. I don't want this place to become stale but at the same time I do want to mainly talk about the focus of the site. For the record I probably wouldn't delete too many threads but I would be inclined to locking them with an explanation. I think all who have responded so far have been very fair and "on topic" ....again, thanks to all for making this a great place to come to talk cards and thanks for the collective wisdom of this board. It's really monumental, imho...Please keep the suggestions coming....best regards

Barry A- thanks for the email too....

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Posted By: barrysloate

To elaborate a bit- often someone asks a simple question and it is answered thoroughly within a handful of posts. If the thread digresses at that point, not a big deal. If that same digression occurs before the original question is answered and a poster decides a youtube video would be a lot funnier, then that can be considered a hijacked thread.

We're all friends and have been posting here for a long time, and sometimes guys just like to have fun.

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Posted By: Jimmy Piccuito

Leon,

as you may know I have only been a member of this board a few months and have noticed a trend in off topics, I like discussions about all vintage sports items mostly baseball. I thought there would be more about the history and collecting, there have been only a few interesting topics. The separation of the B/S/T and the main board is a great idea, as a dealer and collector, the main board is place that you can go and get away from the buying and selling. I have always been a collector first and have enjoyed discussions about the vintage items members talk about everyday. What I have seen mostly are discussions that seem to involve two or three parties that tend to get off topic, which can make it difficult for the rest of the members to respond.

Take care

Jimmy

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Posted By: Matt E.

Lock the threads Leon and people will get the message eventually.

Over the past 24-36 months I have seen many OT posts that start "this is my one for the year" as if it were an entitlement. Not sure who created that rule but I always found that annoying.

I agree with Quan, no more You Tube links. period.

Even the stock market needs correcting every once in awhile, maybe Net 54 needs a correction to get back on course.

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Posted By: bruce Dorskind

In our view, the raison d'etre for this Board is to discuss issues related to early baseball cards
and perhaps early baseball memoribilia. It is not a venue to discuss rock n roll, politics, romance,
dogs, murders at universities or the deaths of famous or infamous entertainers.

If people want to lobby for a politician or a cause let them do on a site which focuses on
that issue.

In our view, the best way to addres the "off topic" problem is to ban all off topic posts.
After one or two warnings ban those people who insist on using this Board as a platform
for issues which have little or nothing to do with Old Cardboard.

As moderator you have the right, if not the responsibility, to lock any and all off-topic threads.

If you make the penalty severe enough and you enforce vigorously no one will commit the
crime.


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

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Posted By: leon

With all due respect we have a little different view on punishment fitting the crime. From your previously stated reasoning I should still be in prison for my drug possession charge from 23 years ago....but I do appreciate your view...Everyone should have a right to voice their opinion..take care

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Posted By: E, Daniel

Leon, I tend to look at it the other way than Barry S.
If a thread is interesting, is getting alot of response, then those are the threads I wish weren't hijacked quite so much - often there's still meat on the bones to be had......while some of the more seasoned and knowledgable voices may already have been heard and feel the questions answered, hearing a multitude of opinions is the way to truly learn something new, something you hadn't heard framed quite that way before..
But an OT, posted as such, doens't faze me at all and makes it super easy to read if i'm interested or not.

I think banning political/religious/familal reference discussion is fine, but as most who join in on the board are huge sports fans - not just baseball and baseball cards, then the odd thread on current day sporting issues is pretty natural fodder.
If you want the board to be about friendships as much as baseball cards, as you have often quoted, then friendly banter about OT sporting topics would seem a fit.

JMO


Daniel

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Leon, haven't you noticed that you're in virtual prison in this forum? (Key Twilight Zone music)

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Posted By: leon

Agreed...But it's the frequency as of late that I am a little concerned about...that's all....

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Posted By: Steve f

All valid points and I for one get carried away, and giddy. Especially when in between med doses.

Some of these OT's are important to build comraderie (sp), trust and to just simply be civil. While rarely is my OT pertinent in the purist sense... Realize that weddings, okay bachelor parties, dinners, Al Rosen, modern memorabilia, ebay scams, Meet's, funny photos, seinfeld, even current MLB/sports topics can conjur up a prewar notion.

I believe that some OT's can show the human side to this braintrust and possibly coax a reluctant lurker to jump in. Some members think of the VBC as a library, I do too, but it's okay to step into the Children's Wing from time to time(and my local library has videos now too).

Leon, You do a good job here -establishing the ying/yang. But I'm certain it gets weary. You may want to consider this option... I'm thinking, if a member has issue with anothers' post, suggest he shoot the OT poster a tactful note, most folks are accomodating and wish to be liked.

Email welcomed and jokes okay but please, no girly pics.

Steve Falletti
fdnyladder7@comcast.net

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Posted By: barrysloate

Daniel's point is well taken, as who is to say when a question has been fully answered. I agree that my response was flawed.

Two suggestions: if a thread starts to veer, no reason why the next poster can't go back to the original point and get things back in order.

Second, I think part of Leon's job as moderator is exactly what the title suggests: to moderate the forum. If he sees we have digressed too far, he can request we get back to the issues. It doesn't entail locking or deleting.

As a sidenote, one topic that seems to be incredibly popular on this board is Seinfeld. I bring this up because while it has absolutely nothing to do with vintage cards, many of us genuinely have fun with it. So my question is when is it acceptable to talk about it, and at what point does it go too far? Or is it just better to say Seinfeld discussion is banned (please don't go that far )

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Posted By: shane

Leon,
I hear what you are saying about posting and not getting any response. I posted a message on the BST board and some ass just responded that the message was boring for him.
Sometimes it is hard to think of good topics to start. Some of the best topics come out of the worst threads. I agree that there is too many O/T threads and there should be a moritorium on them.

Regards,
Shane

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

As the old timers to this board I use to contribute much more to this board. In the last year it has gotten so bad with O/T threads that I have really become disinterested with responding only to threads with T206 in the title that look interesting. On any given day the topics on the first page are 50% off topic.

I think Quan really nailed it with his response. There needs to be restraint from everyone whether starting a thread or responding to an O/T thread. The site has morphed into I don't know what, every where from Bonds theards to Yogi threads to daily topics to hypothetical who's this and who's that. I think the majority of us come here to talk vintage baseball cards.

My suggestion to Leon is to delete the threads and seend a private email to the poster. These threads clutter up the main topics of the board. You were able to keep the greatest thread ever on the T206s clean I know we can do it for the whole board.

I personally come to this board to learn, talk and contribute about vintage baseball cards. Not have a USA Today version of sports with vintage baseball cards thrown in.

Lee

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Posted By: greg

Leon,

Since you are asking for "suggestions" I thought I would give one.

While I understand that there are many that only want to see cards being discussed on this forum (and rightly so), I (myself included) can also see that many are interested in the general topic of pre-war baseball and pre-war memorabilia. While I can't see the rationale for discussing current events here, I can see some reason or validity to discussing a pre-war pennant or uniform (not exactly unrelated to the topic in general).

Is it possible to have a category for this, just like the B/S/T, Vintage Links, and Forum Rules links? Call it something like "Vintage Baseball Discussion and Memorabilia" ? I know there is the Game Used Forum, but sometimes there are others on here that may have this common, and very related, interest.

This way, those who only want to see posts relating only to cards don't have to be bothered by the other material, even though it's just as relavent to our national pastime.

Just my two cents, again....you asked for suggestions.

Greg

(edited because I forget to add something)

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Posted By: leon

There are other sites for Memorabilia and I would consider those threads off topic on this board. I do appreciate suggestions but this was started as a "cards" board and I feel very strongly about keeping it focused in that direction. I also feel the more off topic it goes the less I am comfortable with...In other words maybe a Ruth signed ball question is OT but not as bad as "lets talk about the grand slam of tennis". As for having another area, on this site, to discuss those subjects I am not sure I want that as the moderating is already a wee bit time consuming.....I am listening to all thoughts though....but digressing away from the main focus of the board would be a very hard pill for me to swallow....thanks for the viewpoint though.....it's appreciated and heard...

Lee B....our sentiments are very similar but I have learned about deleting threads and will do it very rarely.....Your brother helped me see the light on that issue....

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Leon, You now have a topic aboout Baron Davis,Swatches, Cepeda,Boxing, Schilling, & Topps. This is just on the first page and pretty obvious to me that they do not need to be on this board.

Once again, Just my opinion, but I see from other responses there more that feel this way.

Lee

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Posted By: greg

Thanks for the reply Leon.

While I am not a "card collector", but more of a "team collector" of pre-1920 Red Sox, I enjoy (most of the time) reading the posts on here as they relate to something dear to my heart.

It's too bad that there isn't more give and take with people of like intersts as I think that living within the so called "box" can make one a little narrow in focus. (I'm not implying you are, but the concept in general). I can't for the life of me see how Dan asking for period photographs of the guys we are fascinated with on these little pieces of cardboard is taboo, or someone posting a picture of a rare pennant from 1912 gets people all hot and bothered. That being said, I completely understand the original purpose of the forum and I thank you for listening to any suggestions.

Oh well, I tried....

Greg

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Greg,

This board has morph from it's focus. What you are looking for can be better achieved on the other board you mwntioned. Try there.

Lee

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Posted By: barrysloate

Lee- are you discussing this board or promoting the other one? Not clear.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

If prewar photographs are off topic I guess I can go elsewhere to discuss those. I didn't realize that people would be bothered by that thread, but hey whatever. I certainly don't see some of the loudest complainers in this thread EVER starting threads. I ask prewar baseball card questions all the time and hardly ever get a response, as if this stuff is some kind of national security state secret. OH NO someone might be on to the great Old Judge secret. OH NO someone talked about T205's now the price is going to skyrocket.

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Posted By: Scot

.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Yes, so are cabinet cards so stop posting those as well. I don't want to see any more ticket stubs, programs, or cigarette packs that didn't contain cards either.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Barry,

I now where in any of my responses made reference or indicted that there is another board or that any one should go to it. This is brought up by you and I am responding to the you.

I am making suggestions as to how to get the focus back to it's original intent and the reason the "majority" of the people read this board. Obviously there are some that have made this an open forum. If that's the way it's going to be, than that's the way it's going to be. I will morph back to being frustrated about the board and not say much.

Lee

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Posted By: leon

Personally I consider old baseball photo's and especially cabinet cards not too off topic....I think most of the board would feel this way too.....Since they show a ton about our pasttime, when the cards were made, I rarely have a problem with those threads....it's the other stuff I am talking about....

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Boy, I love how this board can spin a response. I was responding to Greg's original post and did not see his follow up. I have never had a problem with the way Dan has handle his collecting and interests on this board.

What did get out of hand here is when there was discussions about game used vintage equipment & autographs. I personally love the old photos that Dan collect, heck you know they are real. Now for the autographs and equipment that's another story.

Just someone responding that you can vent on,

Lee

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I know Leon, but I just went through the last two weeks worth of threads on this board, and not a single complainer in this thread other than Bruce has started a thread. As for your E98 question I didn't have an answer, but have wondered about that issue for a long time. There is probably a lot more knowledge out there about it...probably even lurking on this board, but you know nobody wants to give up their secrets. Hell Jerry thinks the W600 checklist belongs to him.

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Posted By: Corey R. Shanus

Here's my take. I think overall this board is very good and Leon does an excellent job of moderating. I do find it maddening sometimes, to see a really interesting thread digress to such an extent that the last thirty or so posts deal with the latest happenings in the entertainment or political world, or perhaps the latest Seinfeld rerun. My biggest pet peeve, though, is the policy to severely limit discussions of interesting vintage memorabilia topics. Don't get me wrong, vintage baseball cards are great. However, not only does it seem that it is becoming harder and harder to find new things to discuss, vintage baseball cards are only one (albeit the most important in terms of dollars spent) component of overall vintage baseball collecting. Perhaps the ultimate irony is that if one were to count all the off-topic posts, they would probably substantially outnumber all the on-topic vintage memorabilia posts. Now for those lovers of these off-topic posts, they will respond that we are simply having some fun and building some comraderie, and that if one doesn't like to read them, simply scroll past them. Fair enough, and I have no problem doing just that. However, why can't that same rationale apply to vintage memorabilia threads/posts? There seems to be something wrong with the business model of a board that seems to take great pride in being the most-read and most-influential baseball board yet is more tolerant of a discussion of a You Tube rock 'n' roll video than a Players League scorecard. It is my view that whatever the number of hits this board averages, that number would rise substantially if we made the topics this board covers more expansive. And what's the real downside? It will not take away any vintage baseball card threads. All it might do is force some people to spend a few seconds more scanning thread topics to know what to skip, a practice I might add many of us already have had quite a bit of practice in when avoiding off-topic posts/threads.

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Posted By: Peck

I would like to see the threads topic identified in the first words of the message title when it directly relates to a card, set, or item, etc. Such as . . Old Judge - . . T206 question - . . American Caramel cards - . . 19th Century tobacco . . Ty Cobb / Ty Cobb back . . etc. A quick identification of the subject would allow a quicker selection of topic's of interest and make it easier to find topics that are months old.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Dan,

I used to be a major contributor and started many threads. It has just gotten to the point where I have become more of a lurker and contributed in a few threads. I could start thread about the hockey playoff, would that make me in good stand? No.

I am off to start a thread, Yes, it will be vintage related.

Lee

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Corey, I would love to see the board take that turn, but when I first got here in 2004 the board was in an uproar over people discussing game used equipment and half the board mutinied and took their toys home. It seems that most of the collectors who participate on N54 don't collect anything but cards and they also don't want to read about anything but cards so it has been somewhat forbidden to discuss memorbilia here for a couple of years now. There is a forum for that on the game used universe board, but it gets so little traffic that it's pretty much just me and 4 or 5 other guys.

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Posted By: Dan

I took a few weeks off from posting after the last series of my posts when I got in the middle of an O/T that went way off track (NO MORE REPLIES FOR ME).

Darn near posted about the 1969 Dodge Charger R/T GENERAL LEE car that is fection $10,000,000 on Ebay right now (250108256198).

This is the one and only place that I can go, and can count on, that is all about Vintage. I think that the only O/T should come with the occassional, PLEASE MORE, O/T Vintage Football question (did I mention, PLEASE MORE!!!).

Leon, I have said it countless times, you do an excellent job and one that I might add comes with NO paycheck for as much as you work this thing. We give BZ's in the Navy (Bravo Zulu), so there!!! You just got one! BZ!!!!!!

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Posted By: E, Daniel

I love Dan's pics posts, Davidcycleback's expert knowledge too.

And I think some of the substantial sports related OT's in the last 12 months are not run-of-the-mill cooler discussions of mere recent sports activities.

There was Barbaro - I don't know anything (or really want to) about horses, but clearly this was a once every 25-50 year horse, and perhaps worthy of a thread.

There's Bonds, a man who's play and statistics are likely to change every discussion about baseball to come for ever and a day.

And last nights Warriors did something no other basketball team has done, and changed an image of a constant loser to fairy tale in 6 games. Trancendant in a way that resonates through all sports.


Maybe OT's could simply get a day a week - say Wednesdays - for a romp?



Daniel

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Posted By: barrysloate

To Lee- you did mention another board, I assumed it was the one you and Jay started (did you two start it?)

To Corey- I don't think this board has ever discouraged threads on vintage memorabilia, particularly things that are card related, such as postcards, cabinets, even various forms of photography. Perhaps a discussion of catcher's masks is a little more afield, but if it elicits intelligent responses it will end up being useful.

What might be more frustrating is if you started a thread on color sheet music of the 1860's, you would get little to no response. But that is not the fault of the board or the moderator, just a reflection of the state of the hobby.

And may I ask again, since I am the number one culprit, do people object to all the Seinfeld quips? If they do, I will stop discussing the show.

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Posted By: Cobby33

Barry- Love the Sinfeld quotes. I also don't mind the "airing of grievances" on here.

My take is that if there isn't a plethora of on-topic posts, then there just isn't. I don't think the off-topic threads (and on-topic threads which degenerate into off-topic), dilute the on-topic content. I would rather have the choice of whether to read an off-topic thread or not, than be stuck having to read post #200 on T206 EPDG's, if that's all the on-topic material there is.

Happy Festivus!

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Posted By: peter chao

Barry,

Just be yourself...the best part of this forum is the mix of different personalities and knowledge of the participants. We may go O/T often, but personally I think maybe a reduction of only about 10% less is called for.

Peter

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Posted By: Corey R. Shanus

Many aspects of memorabilia -- e.g., artwork, advertising, publications, documents, scorecards/program -- are not card-related and are discouraged. Perhaps if discussion about that material was allowed/encouraged, more memorabilia collectors would frequent the board. Then the next time somebody posted a thread on chromolithographic 1860's sheet music, more people who have an interest in that sort of thing would read it and possibly participate in the discussion.

In regard to your well-known tendency to discuss Seinfeld, while if I had my druthers posts on that and other OT topics would be few and far between, believe me when I tell you I lose no sleep over it. In fact, to the contrary, if it gives you and others a bit of fun and comraderie, hey -- isn't that part of what collecting is all about?! My reaction perhaps was just venting over the frustration of so few threads/discussions about interesting vintage memorabilia topics.

I like cards a great deal. Half of my collecting life dealt solely with cards. Then I became exposed to memorabilia and became hooked. It didn't reduce my passion for cards, just gave me something else to enjoy. My guess is that many/most memorabilia collectors started out this same way. I hardly think we'd be doing a disservice or being disrespectful to vintage card collectors to broaden the scope of this board.

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Posted By: greg

Fist let me apologize to Dan for mentioning the photo thing. Dan, I certainly didn't mean to imply that the issue of photographs was the main issue Leon was driving at. I'm really sorry I dragged you into this, it certainly wasn't my intention. I only used the photos as a reference, along with a pennant and uniform, to express how interesting these subjects are, amd have all the relavance in the world to pre-war cards and baseball in general (dare I say even more so?). We can all certainly learn a lot from a variety of topics. I know I have.

Second, let me express how ridiculous I feel even responding to all of the replies I've seen as I have now also been sucked into the vortex of insecurities that is so prominant in this forum. Good Lord people, are pre-war artifacts that scarey or boring? Exactly how many times can one talk about a Red Back Cobb?

Third, Two responded that they feel Cabinet Cards, e.g., are OK but other stuff is better left somewhere else....

Do you think others may have a different opionion? Do you think someone out there would be opposed to seeing what other members in this forum have in their collection that could just as well be seen the National Hall of Fame?

Anyway, enough of my wasting any of your time. I apologize to you all. In no way, shape, or form should a guest to a forum start imposing how things are to be done. That is not my intention.

Dan, I'll see you on the dark side in the other forum where nobody bitches and moans and everybody seems to be friends. Keep those photos coming. Great stuff.

Nuf 'Ced on this end. (Too bad he was never on a baseball card, can't talk about him here). No More from me.

Greg

Edited to say Corey and I were probably typing at the same time and I like the way he thinks. Good post.

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Posted By: Scot

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Posted By: Ken W.

As a fairly new participant to this board, I just wanna say that I have become hopelessly addicted to it! Whatever is going on here, Leon, apparently is working just fine for me. I wouldn't worry too much. Unpopular topics will simply slide down the page and be forgotten. Live and let live.

Ken

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Posted By: leon

When was the last time you posted something about memorabilia? I have told you a thousand times (well maybe not quite that many) to go for it. I do not consider 19th century memorabilia to be too far off topic and is certainly permitted per the forum rules...I would say if you start a memorabilia thread, every 3-4 days, given your participation on the board, it would not be too much, especially since it's barely OT anyway.......I am not sure how much more clear I can be. best regards