SAVE THE SEALS.....A CRY FOR HELP !!!!!!

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

A couple years ago I seen a documentary on seal killing and I turned the channel, I had wish that I could have stopped it and tried to forget about it. This year with the Canadian Goverment allowing 275,000 baby harpseals being tortured for their pelts I have no choice but to speak out. Rick Smith of the Canadian International FUnd for Animal Welsare or IFAW states that the hunt is carried out in an unnaceptable inhumane act. One of the reasons for the hunt is that the seals are blamed for the smaller levels of Cod. These baby seals cannot even swim , so how arethey getting the cod?...basically it is overfishing and greed and nothing more. Seals only make up 3% of the overall COd take , so I hardly believe that they are any problem at all. Plus what are they supposed to live on ,ICE? There means of killing them is clubbing. If clubbing is humane, why does it take them 3 or 4 times to do so? They are also being shot in the sides and wreathing in pain & blood trying to crawl away to avoid further attack. one picture showed a seal pup trying to defend its attack on being knifed with its little paw and rolls on its stomach and quickly the hunter rolls him back and guts his stomach while the seal pup IS STINKING SCREAMING ALIVE!!!

I frickin cried , this is so barbaric and has to stop ,if any of you have a true heart for GODS creatures this is one that needs help now. I spent some time Friday& Saturday researching and creating awareness. I emailed a radio station, the guy from Boston , RED LOBSTER- who buy the way is the largest importer of Canadian fish....go figure. Several emails to friends and other groups. I emailed the seal hunt organizers and spent over 12 hours Sunday doing my part. Veternarians stated that 42% of the carcasses they examined were SKINNED ALIVE .These reasons are that the skins are better that way. These are being tortured right in front on their mothers -no mammal is treated in such a way that the mothers helplessly watched there harmless pups be savagely clubbed to death .I seen where they missed the head and hit them in the side of the face....blood everywhere. This isnt right and too many of us take life for granted and want others to react while we sit back and do nothing. A faithful and innocent creature trusting that will crawl right to you harmlessly, should NEVER be treated this way.

Paul McCartney has visited the seals and is a major advocate of
this issue. I emailed Larry King and gotten a quick response, but just that all emails will be answered and thanks for writing. I emailed Gucci and other who buy these pelts and asked where their heart was? If just one little card that you could care less about to sell or go to harpseals.org,save the seals, Humane society of the United States on how you can help. For those poor creatures, I personally thank you from my heart ! GOD HELP THEM !

Save the seals !

Best regards
Dan Koteles

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Posted By: Rob Dewolf

I'm just glad I was up early enough to see this post.

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Posted By: Chad

Everything you said is right on.

--Chad

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Posted By: Rob Dewolf

Let's just hope this opens the way for every board member to make a post -- or three or four -- about their favorite causes and solicit other members to make donations on behalf of those causes. Because that's what a Vintage Baseball Card Forum is all about, isn't it?

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Posted By: leon

Dan called me last night and asked me about this doing this thread. I told him that if everyone did one then the board would be over run with them. This is a great cause but I wasn't sure this was the right venue for his plea for help and some would respond as such. Nevertheless I told him he could use one of his "off topic" posts to do it. He doesn't start many off topic threads. I have seen board members do much worse. Also, I know I can control this type of stuff so it's not like it will get out of hand. Give Dan'o a little slack. He did ask first, he's a tried and true collector and a long standing board member... (and it is a worthy cause).....thanks much.....

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Posted By: Rob Dewolf

My point is that there are a lot of great causes out there. Leon, you say "I know I can control this type of stuff so it's not like it will get out of hand." But if every board member who's entitled to an off-topic post chooses to use it to solicit donations to a charity, then how do you deem which ones are OK and which aren't? And what's "out of hand"? One such post a day? Two a day? Three?

Please don't take this as a knock on Dan's cause. It isn't. Just trying to shed some light on the big picture.

Thanks, Rob

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Posted By: barrysloate

Dan is right about the barbaric way these seals are being killed, and I share his disgust with the whole thing. My fear is probably little will be done. There is too much money to be made, and even if seal killing became illegal, it wouldn't stop these hunters from conducting business as usual.

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Posted By: Jim T

The Humane Society of the United States is an anti-hunting organization at its core. I wouldn't *#ss on them if they were on fire.

And, as always, there are two sides to every story. Here is another: http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/seal-phoque/myth_e.htm

I would give you my personal views on this topic but I don't feel they are appropriate for a forum dedicated to baseball cards. Fundraising to help organizations that help kids is one thing (and a great gesture from the forum). This topic is another thing entirely and has no place on this forum in my opinion.

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Posted By: leon

I promise you I share your concern. My thought is that if someone else asked to do one now I would tell them to wait 3-4 weeks.....Hopefully it doesn't come to that. There are a million great causes out there and we can't be championing each one on the board. It was hard for me to say no when I thought of all of the other folks that have asked to do an OT and I let them. All I can say is that I promise this won't be the norm on the board. Unfortunately I am an animal lover too... Your comments are taken exactly the way they are supposed to be and I do share your concern. Have a good one.....

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

we are talking about a mammal that feels pain like we do. These seals have no way of defending themselves. It doesnt take money to donate to their cause, just letting someone else know about this is helping these seals. I hope that you are not getting beaten in an alley somewhere...I think I would have to turn my back just too many causes out there to help you out. If my little bit of imput can go to help stop this barbaric act, then so be it .There are other organizations that are helping the seals then the humane society.

If these hunters were eating the seal meal for survival a little would be understood ,but this isnt the case. A cry for help means to tell everyone that you can. If writing letters and emailing others that you want this stopped AND this saves these creatures from this horrible pain.....you did your part. Iam not an organizer, just a human being with a true heart. THIS IS THE WORST ACT OF ALL GOING ON BY HUMAN BEINGS. I called Leon and asked if it were allright because there is alot of lurkers as well as members. There will be some that want to help ,anything is better then nothing. THIS IS A PLACE TO REACH OUT. Iam one that gives alot of time in baseball cards and have helped many with set fillers even when I didnt want to move an item...or I have lent many an ear time discussing the hobby. So I will lend my time to a more worthy cause ,if it dosnt help at all, I feel better that I tried. Not everyone was raised in a loving household....dont worry, there is still time to learn to love.

ROb- you wouldnt ever get the big picture !
JIM T....I did enough research, that is a cover up to help the many that are constantly on their backs. Some fisherman even said he was considering quitting because of all the pressure, must be guilty. Watch one of the videos, yo uwill see that your side is an immediate cover-up.....silly.

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Posted By: Mark

I commend you for what you are doing but Rob is just making a point and i don't think its to you personally. At the end of your last post you said "ROb- you wouldnt ever get the big picture !" I think you posted that to reiterate what seals go thru.

There are many things wrong with this world and to find an answer to them all would be impossible. I hope this thread helps in some way. goodluck

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Posted By: Jeff Prizner

I'm making a donation, thanks for posting Dan!

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Guys, I don't think our forum will be overrun with "save the seals" threads popping up every hour. Dan obviously feels very strongly about this and frankly, as another human being, we should all feel bad about this. It doesn't mean that we don't care about Darfur or the war in Iraq or the war against AIDS if we entertain this important subject for a day. Not everyone feels comfortable posting off topic stuff and everyone has a respect for the way this forum is run so anarchy is probably a ways off. My point is, while I respect the countervailing opinion about off topic posts, perhaps we can lay off Dan for posting this here for a bit of time. After all, I suspect most of us care more about this issue than the 900th discussion about which slab company is better, PSA or SGC?

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Posted By: Rob Dewolf

I'm sorry you missed one of my points. Allow me to italicize it:

Please don't take this as a knock on Dan's cause. It isn't.

Good luck in your quest.

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

I read what you said, I do not believe that you are against me,but I at the same time freely respond to those who could care less or to those that do not want this on board.

please all go to : harpseals.org and scroll all of it and you can see for yourselves.

Thanks Rob and all !

Jim. T- about your link again, go to harpseals.org like said above and it is on youtube.com and other major places .Look at the you tube and Jim.T you will see that you are absolutely wrong. To those who do not care ,simply do not read. You can open any thread you want, this is your choice.

Mhttp://www.harpseals.org

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Posted By: leon

Back to on topic....I know the cards aren't as important.....Please send the Herzog card as soon as possible !!~! I need it.....let's make a deal....behind door #1.......

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Posted By: Tony Andrea

Here's the link Big "D"..

http://www.harpseals.org/

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Posted By: Richard L.

I am regular on the nonsport side, but like to browse the baseball side. I feel this is a worthy cause and recall seeing that documentary. It was appalling to say the least. Just made a donation thru paypal. Dan, as an animal lover myself, I applaud your effort to help these animals that cannot help themselves. As for Jim's post, it is his opinion, but in my opinion total garbage!

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

no deal until you donate your FIreside. Thanks for everything !

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Posted By: Cobby33

I'm down with it.
It's appalling how animals, children and the elderly are treated in this country. I'm all for having these causes publicized on here. They're a lot more important than some of the self-serving drivel we see.

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Posted By: John S

Thanks for the information Dan...very disturbing. Hopefully something can be accomplished.

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Posted By: howard

Cobby, by "this country" do you mean Canada or the U.S.? Before this turns into an America bashing thread keep in mind that the seal slaughter is taking place in Canada.

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

I cannot stand to see the helpless mistreated - like these seals, the elderly and children! I am an avid sportsman, so I really hate the hipocritical humane society. However, these little seals need to be protected. I would never make a donation to the humane society myself, b/c I know how they operate and are truly uneducated on topics they supposedly support. However, some independent organization whose only goal is to save these seals, I would feel the need to help. It is like I told Dan - the ONLY reason these seals are being slaughtered is $$$. I might could understand if some Eskimo tribe was killing them for food, but not International Companies paying people for the pelts - there are other ways to make clothing than innocent seal pelts!

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Posted By: Cobby33

Nobody is bashing "this country." Perhaps we protect the seals. But visit any Humane Society or District Attorney's Office and check out the photos in the child/elderly abuse units. It is truly a sad epidemic, unparalleled in any "civilized" society.

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Posted By: Bill Stone

When I saw the title of the post I thought, at last,we might be having a discusion of the Pacific Coast League and the San Francisco Seals from 1903-1957. We couldn't save the San Francisco Seals or the Hollywood Stars.

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Posted By: Tony Andrea

Dan -
I looked more into this absolute butcher of innocent seals after speaking with you at length
regarding this subject.
After viewing the website and seeing whats actually being done, how can one not be bothered by this massacre. This is all very disturbing to say the least.

xoxoxoxo Tony Andrea

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Posted By: Bob Pomilla

Right On, Dan! I've engaged in demos and signed petitions in opposition to this annual sadistic blood orgy. There is a boycott against Red Lobster. How any decent human could engage in this behavior is beyond me. Thanks, Leon, for allowing this post.

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Posted By: Jeff O

"THIS IS THE WORST ACT OF ALL GOING ON BY HUMAN BEINGS."

Um, that might be one of the greatest overstatements I've read in a long time. Trust me - men (and women) are doing much worse, all over the globe, every minute of every day. That doesn't make seal hunting right (or wrong). It's just a fact.

This is one of the oddest off-topic posts I've ever seen.

Jeff

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Posted By: Rob Dewolf

I was just at a message board for Save the Whales, and a guy was selling a group of 10 different E94s in fair-good condition. Go figure.

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Posted By: Bill Stone

Rob --I have had my eye on that large lot of E94's in the whale auction. I have a few guys interested in a card or two but if anyone else is interested in becoming a bidding partner let me know.

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Posted By: Eric Bennett

I only post once in a blue moon...so maybe I shouldn't here...but...wow..I'm all for stopping the slaughter of inocent seals but, call me crazy, I tend to prioritize in my life. I sure would like to see the slaughter of millions of innocent children stopped...then maybe I could get to the seals.

Oh..and on the topic of pain... http://www.blogicus.com/archives/babies_feel_pain_during_abortions.php

Eric

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Posted By: Jeff O

Now this is a pro-life thread. Awesome. I can't wait to see what's next.

Jeff

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Posted By: Jim T

Dan

I just want to clarify a few things as you are obviously passionate about this topic and may have read a few things into my post...

"JIM T....I did enough research, that is a cover up to help the many that are constantly on their backs. Some fisherman even said he was considering quitting because of all the pressure, must be guilty. Watch one of the videos, yo uwill see that your side is an immediate cover-up.....silly."

I am not on a side. I merely pointed out that there is another side to this story. The two sides in this debate each have an agenda and will present whatever information supports that agenda. I will not jump to any conclusions based on that information. However, I am very familiar with the HSUS, their agenda, and their means for acheiving that agenda. As a result, I am very skeptical of any facts that they might furnish in making their case.


"Jim. T- about your link again, go to harpseals.org like said above and it is on youtube.com and other major places .Look at the you tube and Jim.T you will see that you are absolutely wrong. To those who do not care ,simply do not read. You can open any thread you want, this is your choice."

Not sure where I am wrong as I did not yet take a position on this topic. The only statements of fact that I made is that there are two sides to this story (clearly that is true) and that the HSUS is anti-hunting (also true).

In response the question posed "how can one not be bothered by this massacre"?

I want reliable facts before I oppose or support anything like this. It would be very easy for me to sit here in my comfy chair surrounded by thousands of dollars worth of baseball cards and other luxuries, and criticize a person for how they make a living. And if I did criticize them, I might want to look in the mirror before I shove another big mac or kfc chicken leg in my mouth. Anyone familiar with factory farms in the US knows that this kind of bloody massacre goes on daily in this country and nobody is to up in arms about that fact. In fact, I might argue that anyone that uses mass produced animal products in this country might as well be swinging the club themselves.

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Posted By: Mark

After reading Eric's post i can see its turning in to a political thread.

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Posted By: Cobby33

Here we go again...
Amazing how something so objective and clear can turn into a platform of a completely subjective nature.

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Posted By: David Vargha

There was an intramural floor hockey team at UCSB named "Club Baby Harp Seals".

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

but you can defend yourself or maybe not. These seals have no escape. We are talking about 10,000 fisherman that make 12k a year. Why cant we pay their salary 3/4 and let them keep what else they get for regular fishing.There is enough money in the world to buy them off. If this is not so bad ,why are seal products banned in the United States ? An overstatement?....

What men and women do to each other is controllable, if he or she doesnt like each other they can move on a choice. These seals live there and they go to thier respected habitat and whack them in the head ! Because of global warming we lost over 100,000
seal pups to drowning. They have been through enough then we come over and torture what didnt already drown in front of their helpless mothers. Gimme a break....you cannot possibly feel their pain, how about somebody whacking you upside the head ,missing ....then doing it again .Is this what men and women do, yes to seals. You one of thse muggs that do this crime?

I didnt mention that I emailed the Newfoundland Defense who has alot to do with this hunt, he only emailed me cause I put in my subject heading new membership . I unleashed an verbal tirade w/o profanity and he emailed me back stating to mind my own business you red-neck down syndrome on death row supporting idiot. Is this a mature response for a professionally controlled hunt?...no and either is your response.

Those who do not care , go to another thread. I have to do what I can....it is only right for to voice for the seals.

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Posted By: Cobby33

Go Gauchos- although that is truly distasteful. Don't recall that one when I was there.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Jim, I reviewed the "other side" of the issue on the website you provided; not sure that I can really be convinced considering that number 10 on the list was: "the seals had it coming to them."

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Posted By: Jeff O

Awesome. I should pay seal hunters not to hunt seals. What's next? Can I pay drug dealers not to deal drugs? Burglars not to steal? How about other people that do things I just don't happen to like... can I pay them to stop too? Hmm, I may need a second job.

As for my ability to defend myself, that remains to be seen. I haven't been in a fight since the second grade and would prefer to keep it that way. However, I think there are a lot of dead people all over the world who never really had a chance to defend themselves... when those militias showed up in their villages with guns and machetes.

Don't get me wrong - I've got nothing against seals. I've never whacked one on the head and never would... unless I was literally dying of starvation. That being said, Dan, I hope you're a vegetarian, because I've seen what they do to cattle at the slaughter, and it's no better. Trust me.

The reason for the criticism is that this is a vintage baseball card board, not a save the seals or save the world board. I'm sure there are plenty of them out there, and if people are seeking the info they can find it. I have to agree with a few others who have posted on this thread - where do we draw the line? That's just my opinion, and I'm entitled to it, just like you're entitled to your opinion about the seals. It's honestly nothing personal.

Jeff

**edited for spelling

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Posted By: Cat

I always liked that bumper sticker: "Nuke the Unborn Gay Whales"

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Posted By: Rob Dewolf

My original objection was not to Dan's cause but its inclusion on this message board. But now that he's played the global-warming card, I'm kind of interested to see what unfolds.

"Honey, do we have any popcorn?"

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Posted By: Anonymous

Anyone who thinks that killing seals "IS THE WORST ACT OF ALL GOING ON BY HUMAN BEINGS" needs to go back to high school and sign up for History 101. He can study the Holocaust, the Inquisition, the Armenian genocide, Darfur, medieval tortures, and countless other unspeakable acts committed by mankind against his fellow men. In my opinion, all of these are infinitely worse than killing animals.

In our society, we use animals for food, clothing and other purposes. To anyone who is not a member of PETA, it is obvious that the animal must be killed before it can be used for this purpose. Personally, I cannot see that the precise methodology used to kill the animal is tremendously important. (To be fair, I must say that I also cannot understand the hand-wringing and agonizing about traditional implementations of the death penalty. Hanging and the electric chair seem perfectly appropriate to me.)

Does everyone know that Adolph Hitler, quite possibly the most loathsome and despicable individual who ever lived, was a vegetarian?

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Posted By: anthony

this post has gone all over the place! i was going to respond to a few specific individuals but i only have 10 fingers...so i will make just 2

1. Dan, you sound very passionate about this cause and i wish you well in your efforts to curb these senseless murders

and...

2. Memorial Day is 6 weeks away, please make sure you take a moment to honor your fellow Americans (and Allies) who gave their lives in the defense of our Country and our Allies' Countries. To include those POW's and MIA's from all the wars. Whether you think it was/is right or wrong, they are still gone.

Semper Fi

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

George - the holocaust is over, the seals are still being slaughtered. This is no comparison.

Jeff- O-keep throwing your daggers , I dont mind....I expected some who could care less.If you choose to belittle me or have a group side with you it is okay. The money would come from superstars that are overpaid or some that have multiple concerns going on , it would be private. Nobody asked you to doanate anything from your nightly janitorial job at DIckMonalds.

Rob- do you lack attention at home?....the cause is for the sake of the seals, iam a rookie at this , but feel that I need to play a role. You seem to be having fun with me. You could never care correctly for anything....I can tell this just by the way that you write.

Anthony- Thank you.I never forget those of war, my dad was a Major hero in WWII and I miss him bad.

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Posted By: barry arnold

I've just made a donation, Dan.
Thank you for bringing the horrific tragedy to our attention.

all the best,

barry

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Posted By: leon

I think it is very difficult to give an inch sometimes. I have received enough emails concerning this to have swayed me into locking the thread. I think it's a great cause....and I think there are a million other great causes too...I always hate seeing animals, people, or anything suffer (except someone that hurts my family )..I hope letting this thread go helped get some awareness to folks and helped out one of our collecting brethren. I have always tried to "moderate" carefully.....Lets please get back to cards. If anyone is going to implode over locking this please email me first....thanks

Remember, as Jefferson Burdick said, "A card collection is a magic carpet that takes you away from work-a-day cares to havens relaxing quietude where you can relive the pleasures and adventures of a past day-brought to life in vivid picture and prose"