My experiment on the BST

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Posted By: Joe D.

As many of you may know, I listed an item on the BST as a different type of listing.
As opposed to a posted price, or an auction to bid on.... it was a sealed-bid sale - best offer in by a certain time takes it.

I figured I would post my thoughts on the process here - so as to help others who may look to list an item in this way.

Through email correspondence with potential bidders and actual bidders... it became apparent to me that this is not a desired sales vehicle (from the purchasers point of view). I don't know the value of an item (as a seller), but that is a problem for the buyer as well. Some expressed interest in the item, but stated because they didn't know how much to offer - they basically did not submit one.

It would appear as buyers, we are more comfortable seeing a specific number (like an auction), and then deciding whether or not we are willing to pay more. The unknown in this type of sale sort of dooms it as a vehicle.


As far as statistics... I had a little over 5 people who intimated they would be submitting an offer... the way it turned out 2 people submitted an offer and one person submitted a 'feeler' (I wouldn't call it a true offer - but the person mentioned he might be willing to buy at the minimum).


To compound the issue of a bad sales vehicle... in going over the item with one of the bidders - I noticed a clear piece of tape on the back of the item (for the first time) and passed that information along to the two bidders. The high bidder passed on the item with the description change as did the low bidder.


My first bit of advice would be to do a more diligent job than I did in reviewing the product and giving a good description.

More importantly, I would suggest that you avoid a sealed-bid sale.
If you do not have a good handle on the value of an item, or want to allow multiple people a true opportunity to pick it up -
the best option is a traditional auction.


Hope this info helps someone thinking of doing a post similar to mine. (I have heard jabs about promoting an item on the main board and received a few myself... to head off that type of insinuation, I would like to point out that the item described above is no longer for sale).

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Posted By: Chris Mc

I had a item on the BST and like you I had the best offer wins it. The only difference is I did a best offer over a certain amount. I had an idea of what the item might sell for and the min. was what I had paid for it. Hope this helps others. The other school of thought is you can start high and work from there.

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Posted By: Dave

Well does anybody think this idea would work with an item that is fairly easy to put a price on? Such as a T206 Speaker in a PSA 5? Or would it just be better off putting such on ebay? (No, I dont have a Speaker PSA 5)

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Posted By: Chris Mc

It's nice to offer it up here first I think. You save the seller fees and give the fellow board members first crack at it. A true auction(ebay) may bring more money.

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Posted By: Joe D.

Very similar to what you did, I did give some direction... in that I put a minimum $ amount for all offers.

After going through this though... I believe people are more comfortable seeing a specific price and deciding whether or not they want to pay more. The unknown of the sealed bid most likely scared off a few potential buyers who might have participated had it been a traditional auction.

That is what I take from the experience.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Joe, your minimum was more than what it sold for on ebay (from a very well known seller). It is a desireable item in my opinion it was just that your minimum was higher than the selling price just a few months ago. That kept me from placing a bid. It may be a one-of-a-kind item as I have never seen another, but it just may not be well known enough in the hobby for any takers as of yet. Have you done any research on it to see if what you have was promotional or was it something that was in the works, but never reached the public?

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Posted By: anthony

chris, my experience is that ebay definitely brings more money than the b/s/t...if its only a few bucks its no big deal but it seems several people (remain nameless) like to "low ball" for an card/item even when there is a set price...i used to say just "make a fair offer" then get 2-3 insulting offers, if it was close to what i want and its a board member, then i sold it...now i just go straight to ebay...sorry everyone!

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Posted By: Joe D.

I would like to clarify a bit though....

My cost on eBay + Shipping to me (that I paid) + Shipping to the winner (which I included) was equal to my minimum bid.
Actually my minimum bid was $15 higher than the above formula.

Believe me - I didn't care about a $15 profit... I probably would have spent that much money on bubble wrap and gas to the Post Office

I know you didn't mean to imply anything with your post - but for those who may not be familiar with the whole story - we are talking about at most $15 when we say "over my cost".


edit to say: Point taken though... a starting place below my cost would have invited more people to participate in the listing.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Yes Joe, I didn't mean to imply that it was way over your cost....just to say that the minimum was already close to the price where I thought it was valued which is why it didn't get much action on the B/S/T. No offense intended at all. I personally think you should keep it and a little research into it may help push the value up.

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Posted By: Bob

I think if an item is not a "one of a kind" item, the BST thread can be very effective (see other thread). The key is to have a general idea what an item would sell for and couple that with an idea as to what is the lowest figure you could live with it. Put a set price on it and you'll be surprised how easily it will sell. If not, there is always ebay. I remember a few cards posted on the BST thread in which you could hear the crickets chirping and no interest, which were placed on ebay with $9.99 minimums and sold for more than what I was trying to get for them on the BST.
I think "auctions with submitted offers" don't do that well in the BST threads because a lot of folks don't like to submit offers, either because they think their offers will be rejected out of hand as too low or they just don't want to go through the hassle. Just my 2 cents....

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

I've put up a few cards on the BST for sale. In one of the sales I indicated I'd take the best reasonable offer. I'll call my reasonable level 100%. I received three offers at the 30% - 40% level and one at 85%. In all cases, none of the offers reached the 100% level. This would indicate that I probably had my expectations too high. I did however get an offer that was close (85%) which tells me that I wasn't too far off. I'm pretty sure I know how much I could get for the card on ebay and if you subtract out the commissions (ebay, paypal, etc) the end price would be at about the 92% mark. If there is no set price I'm pretty sure the BST monitors would like to try and get a card well below market value if possbile and you'll be offered less than the market value (in most cases). If I sold it for less than fair market value then I'm sure I'd see the card back on the BST in the next month or so, with a higher price.

I've made some good purchases on the BST and I've paid pretty strong for other cards. OVerall I like the BST but I'd not recommend selling cards unless you have a fixed price or unless, as a seller, you know what your card is really worth before accepting an offer.

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Posted By: David Vargha

I refuse to bid for items on the B/S/T. If there's a fixed price, then I can at least try to negotiate with the seller if I feel there is a price discrepancy. But I will only bid in real auctions with set rules, not "make my rules on the fly" on B/S/T.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Russ Bright

Being STILL relatively new to vintage card collecting (just under a year pre-war, but 20 or so of shiny crap) I just don't know what to offer, and there aren't enough avenues or help in that area. I collect Mainly T205, and there are places to find ballpark prices for these. Something more rare? I don't know what to pay OR offer. VCP works if you're buying graded cards. What about raw? What about cards that don't come up very often? Some people on the boards are helpful for newer people like me and I don't feel ripped off, but there are a few (and yes it's always the same few) that lowball for buying or rip you off selling (I've been on both ends, and it's not fun)

It's a great experiment, but doesn't help the newer guys still learning about this board. I feel that I learn more and more every day. I have Net54 bookmarked at work and come back every chance I get (probably 50 hits a day are from me). Sometimes I look at the B/S/T and think, that's a great deal, and I do some research and it isn't, or maybe it was and I missed it. I just hope that it eventually gets easier



Russ


Always looking for T205s, and now collecting Obaks and PCL cards (Seattle Baseball!!!)

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Posted By: leon

Don't fret my friend. It will get easier as time goes. You will learn the value of stuff by looking through ebay auctions and the major auctions. You might want to get registered with all of the major auction houses, even if not to really buy anything. As long as you put in an opening bid or two, which almost never wins anything, you will get their catalogues mailed to you. I am sure they figure that eventually you will buy something. I don't know some of the pricing on the real mainstream stuff ie... T201,2,5,6,7...but I keep up with a lot of obscure issues so please feel free to email me if I can ever help .....regards

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Posted By: jay behrens

I'll echo Anothy's thoughts, for me, the BST has been a horrible place to offer items. There are several people on this board that routinely lowball everyone on items they want. The most insulting offer I ever got was an offer of a common worth about $50 for an uncatalogued card. And this clown was totally serious about his offer because when I asked him for a serious offer, he said that was all he was willing to part with. And this person is not poor by any stretch and knows what is rare and what isn't. Needless to say, I told him to never bother making me an offer for one of my cards, even if it was more than anyone else was willing to pay.

I have had successful sales outside of eBay, but I find the BST just brings out the lowballing creeps, who seem to take pride in preying upon new people on the board who may not know what they have or what it's worth.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Dave

I've yet to get lucky on a new guy on the B/S/T selling stuff under market value....*sigh*

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Posted By: Joann

About the only time I am kind of rude about not getting back to people is on the BST when they make a stupid-low offer when I've posted a price. I will often just not respond to the email because it's kind of insulting. I understand trying to bargain, but when the offer is less than 30% of asking price that's just a waste of my time. Usually I am very good about responding to people that are kind enough to express an interest - so I guess I must not consider this a genuine expression of interest.

I do like posted prices, but also like the make an offer approach too. I get uncomfortable with offers if I'm not quite sure what to offer (often) so I do usually pass on these and stick with posted prices.

But sometimes those with posted prices go so fast you miss them. At least with make an offer you can get there a few hours late and still be in it. It also gives you opportunity to make a strong offer on something you have a unique interest in - when that same card may have been snapped up before you saw it with a posted price. Many many a time I see SOLD on a listing and see that I would have paid more, and sometimes substantially more, for the same card.

Joann

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Posted By: Dylan

If your item is truly a one of a kind rarity or very scarce, perhaps one of the auction venues would be a preferable sales format. Let the potential bidders determine a fair value. With sealed bids other bidders wont know if there bid is much too high or low and may just abstain or bid very conservatively.

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Posted By: barrysloate

One thing I've noticed about BST is if someone lists something that is too cheap, it sells in like three minutes. Conversely, if something lasts more than a day I assume it is too expensive. You don't have that problem with an auction. Nobody has time to analyze it.

Which brings me to my next point. Despite some of the grief Leon took about a Net54 auction, I see no reason why an extra category couldn't be added to BST to include 7 day auctions. It would take a bit of an investment in software, and it would certainly take a little time to grow. I don't think it is a big deal though, and should not have garnered the amount of criticism it did.

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Posted By: Dylan

It certainly does seem that the BST gets a lot of hits, because if a deal is to be had it takes no more then a matter of a minute or two for someone to jump on it. I agree with Barry that if an item lasts 24 hours you can pretty much assume its overpriced. When i place an item on bst i list at a price that i feel confident about it selling. If your looking to make a killing send it to auction and hope for a bidding war.
As for a Net54 auction, if a good auction program was had I think it could be great. I just checked out the hits on a few t206 ebay auctions that ended. one was a southern league, another HOF SGC 30, and a common, they each had 15 to 30 hits. Thats not tough to match or beat. Plus everyone favors dealing with board members over complete strangers on ebay. Add in the rising fees and the lack of customer care from ebay and i see lots of reasons why people would be willing to entertain other options.

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Posted By: peter chao

Barry,

I agree with you on the 7 day auction idea, however, maybe we can form a Net54 committee or something to implement the idea. While the idea is on the drawing board, you shouldn't have too much input from other Net54 members. After the committee has a firm idea on what they want to do, then have additional input from Net54 members.

Peter

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Posted By: leon

I always thought it was a good idea but there was a very, very vocal minority that thought this auction idea would make this site (Net54) too commercial....and that conversation got me to leave the board for the first time since I took it over. Not sure I want to revisit that idea? I continue to use ebay a lot and loathe it even more......I have been completely ripped off for over $650 in the last 3-4 mos on ebay (2 transactions).....I am aware of about $25 going bad, from anyone, the whole time I've been moderating, on the BST pages...regards

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Posted By: barrysloate

You wouldn't get ripped off on a Net54 auction. We're a community, and everyone respects that!

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Posted By: JimB

Speaking of ridiculous offers, I was offered a straight up trade of a PSA 10 common player for my T206 Cobb/Cobb back.
JimB

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Jim,
The scary thing is, that the guy with the PSA 10 probably thought he was giving up too much in the trade.... Unless it was Michael, of course.

I have some 8's that look like 10's to me.......

Be well Brian

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Posted By: barrysloate

I'd keep the Cobb too. That's a no-brainer!

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Posted By: scott brockelman

I got the same offer for one of my Planks. he valued the 10 at $45,000. I was pretty sure he had an extra zero in there

Scott