MSNBC article about stamp collector group exposing fraud on ebay

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Posted By: Joann

Pretty cool. They are actually doing something that we have discussed here repeatedly. I haven't had time to read the whole thing, but it sounds like it's pretty hard to get anything done even with really strong evidence of forgeries and alterations. That's our ebay!

Joann

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17171372/


Edited to add: Be sure to click on the related slide show that gives before or after pix of the altered stamps. Interesting, and very similar to our concerns here.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Joann- Neither of the links worked for me, and I am interested because I collected stamps for a few years and know most of the ebay sellers.

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Posted By: Steve M.

Thanks Joann. This is a must read and view link.

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Posted By: DR

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17171372/

Barry, You are a sharp guy, copy / paste the link into the address bar, remove the > and hit return OR just click on the link I posted!

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Posted By: JK

corrected link:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17171372

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Posted By: mark

This has happen to me before, if i edit a post with a link the link adds a > to it. Must be something in the program.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I found the link and looked at the slide show. Since I bought and sold stamps on ebay for three years, let me comment on some of this.

Fortunately, I don't recognize the user's buying or selling name, so at least I stayed clear of him. What he did, which of course is illegal, is age old. Reperforating stamps, removing cancels, and even regumming stamps to resemble the original glue, have been done for generations. Many people are not good at it so the repairs are easy to spot; for example, early stamps left the Bureau of Printing and Engraving with a light adhesive on the back, and a poorly regummed stamp will have a heavy and shiny glue to the reverse. Reperforating a stamp, or removing the perforations if the imperforate version is more valuable, has been done forever. The American Philatelic Society will examine stamps and issue a certificate if it is good, and include a picture of the stamp on the certificate. They are also slabbing stamps now, but it hasn't really caught on.

There is a well known American stamp, Scott #39, which is quite scarce unused but a rarity with a cancel. Having a 90 cent face value, it was issued in 1861 and apparently saw very little use as there weren't too many situations where ninety cents was needed. As a result, the stamp is notorious for having fake cancels on it. 95% of the cancelled examples are bad, with these bright red cancels being the ones most often seen.

Buying stamps is really the wild west, and I guess there is going to have to be more done with authenticating services.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

I wonder how many stamp collectors are going to get fed up and turn to collecting baseball cards. If so, I wonder how long it will be until they get sick of collecting baseball cards for the same reason?

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Posted By: scott brockelman

As Barry stated, these types of alterations have been going on for nearly 100 years and are fairly easy. Also they are fairly easy to detect, some visually, but nearly all of these repairs will show in watermark fluid, save for the addition of a cancellation. I was hoping to see something a bit more modern that may have related a bit more to our arena. The buyer of the stamps "detocakes9" was a very high profile buyer for many years on ebay.

Scott

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Posted By: barrysloate

Where there is money to be made, there will be fraud.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Scott- I don't recognize detocakes9, and I was looking at stamps on ebay nearly every day. I guess our paths never crossed.

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Posted By: scott brockelman

a lot of early US used and unused but slightly faulty material. I believe I sold him a few items. Obviously there was a plan. You would think on something like this he wouls have been a bit more elaborate with his setup. Keeping a bit more at armslength with the ID's, PO boxes etc. It appears a novice detective could have put these pieces of the puzzle together.

Scott

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Posted By: peter chao

Joann,

Thanks for the heads-up.

Peter

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Posted By: Joann

I think what's interesting is that you could almost substitute the phrase "vintage cards" for "stamps" and write the same article. Their common alterations and fakes are reperforating and removing cancellation stamps. Ours are trimming and maybe recoloring, or scuffing the area where "reprint" would appear, etc.

What I thought was significant was that, within this similar hobby, a group of collectors did get together and publicize the fraud and have maybe even made an impact.

If they can do it, it seems we might too. They outed this one particular seller and set up a website just to track his antics.

So that's why I created the thread - not only because there are stamp collectors on here but also because there may be a model for us to follow in this article. Exact same approach? Probably not. Hitchhike on the thinking of a vigilante (hee) collectors group? Maybe.

Joann

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Posted By: Dylan

I read this article a few months back. Whats most frusterating as even after exposing someone they can be right back up in a matter of days under a new handle. However I thought there was one big difference in manipulating stamps in comparison to baseball cards, because stamps are federally gov. issued theres stricter penalties which apply to fraud cases? Ofcourse theyed have to be circulating stamps right?

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Posted By: cmoking

are there grading and/or authenticating companies for stamps? if not, why not?

if there are...how do they compare reputation wise to PSA and SGC as far as weeding out the altered stamps?

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Posted By: barrysloate

Yes King- as I mentioned earlier the American Philatelic Society will examine a stamp and offer a certificate that says the stamp is genuine, will point out some flaws it may have, and include a color photograph of the stamp on the certificate.

There are also slabbed stamps, and the holders and labels look like PSA, but you rarely see them and they are not popular. They use a 100 point grading system. I guess in time they will catch on.

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Posted By: cmoking

It's interesting slabbing hasn't caught on. It seems there is a lot of worry among stamp collectors on getting a fake or an altered stamp. What makes stamp collectors so different than baseball card collectors? (note, I am not saying they are better or worse people...just different).

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Posted By: barrysloate

There are probably two reasons: 1) stamp slabbing is relatively new and needs some time to catch on; 2) collectors have always liked showing off their stamps in high quality albums. A draw full of slabs is a whole new concept. In time I think it will gain in popularity.