How'd ya do?

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Posted By: RC McKenzie

I paid thru the nose for 3 106's, but these are hard to find.

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Posted By: FYS

If the individual that won the 1935 Detroit Free Press Tigers lots wants to break it up, let me know.

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Posted By: Cat

I got one.

Every auction there are always a couple of items that make me shake my head. All the individual bids on the e90-1s added up to $73,655.78, but someone paid $126,904 +vig for the set. Since the Auction Houses have been using this format, I don't think I have seen such a wide disparity. It looks like the folks bidding on the individual cards kind of gave up at the end. It'll be interesting to see how this format works in the future. That Ruth also shocked me...a total of $34,700. I thought it would end about $20ish (or just shy).

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Posted By: Peter Thomas

This format is louzy. Will never bid again - large waste of time. Got notified that I had won 21 E91 cards - some excitement down to 20 or so to go? - then checking it was apparent that I was the high bidder on the cards but set bid had won all of the lots. It seems that Mile High sould have figured this out before sending winning notices to lot bidders when the set bid had won all the lots.

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Posted By: chris

the young 6 went for half what the last one did a few months ago at mastro....not sure what happened there....

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Posted By: Bruce

The Young 6 went to the person that spent nearly 150K on the set. Like Cat stated, makes you wonder if the 90-1 bidders just gave up. I won one card, but didnt come close on the cards I really wanted. An e98 Tinker vg/ex for $3200? Too much for me. I agree this set break up style of auction is lousy. Goodwin has an e93 set in this same format and I wonder if I will even bother to bid on those.

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Posted By: chris

can you explain how this format works? so one person won all those cards, and if so, at what price? thanks

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Posted By: Brian McQueen

I won one e90-2 - the Leever GAI 3. Most of the other cards exceeded what I wanted to pay for them unfortunately.

-Brian

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Posted By: Cat

Chris:

The format is somewhat new. Mastro, I believe was the first to use it, about three or four auctions ago. When they have a set, they allow individual bids on all the cards. BUT, there is a separate auction for the whole set. In the end, if the bid for the whole set is higher than the combined bids of all the individual cards, then the person who bid on the set wins them all... and the individual bids are null and void.

The winner of the e90-1s paid $126,900 + vig ($149,100).

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Posted By: barrysloate

I just spoke with somebody about this set vs. single card approach, and we both agree if the set in question is highly desirable, the set bidder will get it 100% of the time. As such, I think single card bidders will be dropping out. The PSA 7 Joss horizontal, which is an absolutely incredible card in that condition, got a very weak bid. That would not happen if it were offered alone.

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Posted By: JK

Bruce -

For what its worth, the individual e93s are currently out pacing the set in Goodwins.

IMO, that format works best if the set is sufficiently nice that one big money collector wants to come it and take the whole thing and bid big money to do so. The e93 set in goodwins, while nice, is a typical midgrade set. I doubt its going to generate the level interest that was generated by the high grade mastro 93s (which were mostly graded 84 and higher).

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Posted By: quan

the e98s were a real bloodbath. one card i wish i had gotten was the e106 speaker, that was the card i used to own raw and sent in psa myself. i held out for as long as possible at $1108.

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Posted By: Tony Andrea

The format Mile High had in place definately effected the ending prices on the individual lot's.
I gave up on the E90-1 lots I had my eyes on long ago along with many other collectors to im sure knowing the set would go much higher. It really took the fun out of it for me.

Tony

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Posted By: leon

I have always said I thought E106's were a little tougher than most people thought. I ended up with part of a Four Base Hits card.....it smelled like perfume though ....

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Posted By: Jim Clarke

I went to bed early putting in a proxy bid... It's amazing that it got pushed to my high bid at 2:08am. After seeing what other lots have fetched in the past.. I am starting to wonder about this... Really would like to know the underbidder on the lot. I have sent some fealers out already... I do not want to mention lot yet... JC

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Posted By: pat

i didnt like the format either reagrding the e90-1s. they should make a choice as to whether to sell the set as a whole or as individual items. cake and eat it too comes to mind.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

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Posted By: Bruce

Josh,

You make a good point, I hope you are right. Typically in selling cards, the sum of the parts is greater than the sum of the whole. However, I could see why a big dollar collector wants to avoid the difficulties and tedium of collecting these sets piecemeal (personally, I enjoy the chase). It will be interesting to see if the 93 set in Goodwin will be cheaper than the individual cards. My guess is that it will be close as the Goodwin set is primarily a vg/ex set which is still not easy to acqire.

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Posted By: Paul Kaufman

Of course the bidders on the individual E90-1 lots gave up, myself included.......when you see a price discrepancy of $30K, what hope is there ? Great for the seller though. The bids on some individual cards might have been double what they were showing at the end, had it been a regular auction, without the set price hanging over everyone's head.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Paul- you make a good point that may be lost in this auction process. Offering either the complete set or single cards only works when both sets of bids are very close; that way, a single card buyer knows that if he places a few aggressive bids, the individuals have a shot at passing the set price. But when the set is 30K ahead as you say, all the single bidders quit. That is the loophole that makes it not work.

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Posted By: JK

Barry and Paul - I think you are correct. In fact, if Im not mistaken, the mastro e93 lot also had a very large disparity b/t the set price and the individual card price and perhaps caused the same result (ie individual bidders quit).

Bruce - I have it on good authority that what you describe was exactly the situation with respect to the mastro e93s.

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Posted By: leon

Maybe if the auction houses read what is being said here...and most do read this board, then they will quit doing them this way. I don't bid on auctions that have the multiple ways of winning, all together or individually. Even though it might look like the consignor did better they very well might not have since so many individual bidders give up. I am almost positive that a consignor has a say in it also. If one of the people with all the money want every card they can win every one individually and come out with the same cards....such as the Texas Tommy type 1's did recently. If I ever consign my e94 overprints I will NOT let them be sold both ways and would want them sold singly....at least this is my thinking right now....best regards

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Posted By: Bob

Leon- Absolutely! Although I doubt if anyone else will ever be able to put a full set of overprints together, the amount obtained for the set will be far exceeded by the sum of the prices each card brought individually.
As a set collector I have seen this work time and time again (to my chagrin). Collectors are not willing to pay even close to the (sum of the parts) prices paid to collect each card. Despite the blood, sweat and tears to put together a set and years of work in finding each card, selling a complete set is usually a losing proposition when contrasted with busting up a set and selling it piece-meal.
tbob

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Posted By: JimB

I am confident that the individual E90-1s would have approached that total if people did not give up when it was clear, early on, that the set would go to an individual.

I think the E98s drew the most incredible prices. Those cards are so hard to find in nice clean shape and people payed up for them. I was planning to bid aggressively on those and thought I would win with what I was willing to pay, but I got blown out of the water.

Josh,
There was NOT a similar disparity between individual cards and the set as a whole with the Mastro E93 set. The underbidder on the set was the aggregation of individual cards. I know, because I was following closely and bidding on individual cards right up to the end.

JimB

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Posted By: warshawlaw

it is Friday afternoon, after all

But isn't it correct that if the set sold for $126,900 w/o the BP there was at least one other person willing to pay about $112,000 for the set? And if so, what's wrong with that? I think a tough set should have a premium attached to reflect the difficulty of piecing it together.

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Posted By: pat

i agree with warshaw law in that a tough set should command a premium rather than piecemeal.

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Posted By: pat

jeff-- that herpolsheimer's cobb is a knockout!!

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

Lost in the melee.....very nice Cobbie Jeff!!

Frank

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Posted By: leon

I am not disagreeing with the very nice price for a complete set....I think I am saying that if they were sold individually there is a chance they would have gone for more as certain preople might have gone higher on 1-2 cards and not given up so quickly. If you multiply that by 10-15x (20-30 cards or whatever)then the buyer of the whole set (had be bought all singly) would have had to pay more.....if that makes any sense? .....Isn't that what the auction house wants? I guess there are different ways of looking at it...

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Posted By: Marc S.

I got an invoice this afternoon for one of the singles from the E90-1 set that I was high on. Wonder why I get an invoice if the set supposedly went to the high bidder on the entire set...?

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

Marc,

I got the following from MHCC which explains things a bit more.

I want to take a brief minute to thank all of our loyal customers for their participation in last nights auction! We had an amazing amount of interest and bids on a great deal of the lots. If you have already received an electronic invoice I want to alert you that the shipping and insurance charges are more than likely incorrect as that is set to a default price of $10.00 and in most cases must be reconfigured to include appropriate insurance for your winnings. We will be in the office today doing the invoicing and will email wining bidders a correct invoice (followed by a hard copy invoice sent USPS) later today. We will also be available by phone after 3PM MST. In regards to those bidders who were notified that they won any lots between 12-95 please either subtract out the totals including the buyers premium out or contact our office as lot 11 the nearly complete set of E90-1\'s price was greater than the cumulative bids of lots 12-95 and it will be sold in its entirety. This is the first time MHCC has utilized this bidding format and we understand that not unlike many first time ventures it needs refining and we will look into that in the future (as well we will make a decision if we want to utilize this format in the future) . Again I want to wholeheartedly thank all of our customers for a great auction. Regards, Brian Drent

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Posted By: barrysloate

At least Brian is acknowledging that there is a flaw in the bidding process.

Perhaps a better way is to have only the single cards available until the preliminary close, and then add them up and see if there is someone who is willing to top the total by 10%. Admittedly, that person would not have qualified in the traditional sense, but an exception could be made in this special case. That way, those bidding on individual cards would remain aggressive until the end.

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Posted By: Richard Masson

Just the Boston K-Bat and a few e106s. I only need 2 more to call off the jam.
The e90-1 set price was ridiculous. While the Wagner throwing is a monster card in that condition and the Joss is a tougher card, most of the tough cards were 1s and the nicer ones were among the most common. It will be interesting to see what ends up getting posted to the registry.

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Posted By: chris

for the clarification...was away at work today...i believe that i'm in agreement with most, the bidding process on the lot is flawed and pointless unless you want the whole set...take care

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Posted By: Brian

I won a Cracker Jack lot and had bids on numerous E90-1s. I am not happy about the way that transpired.

I must say that this auction format is just another example of the greed of these auction houses. Not unlike the example Barry used the
other day. I think we as a group should wield whatever influence we have to bring these practices to a halt.

Just how much power could our "wingnut" lobby have?

I would guess that many of the bidders in these vintage auctions are none other than members of this forum...
It would be interesting to know the percentages here. That would determine the chances of success.

If we all refused to support auction houses that don't "straighten up", I think they might finally get the message, no?
Brian

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

I vote for you guys not supporting the auction houses so that I can win stuff more reasonably. it is nothing short of fierce out there.

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Posted By: JimB

While I am not personally a fan of this format for several reasons, I can't hold it against an auction house for selling their lots in a way that they feel will bring maximum revenue. The are in business, as much as it may seem like they simply run a service for us.
JimB

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Posted By: Richard

Richard - nice win on the Kbat. You were up late last night.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

It would seem to me that the auction houses would be better served not to run set auctions that way. Theoretically I would have bid on something else in the auction if I wasn't holding out hope that the single buyers would win over the set buyer.

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Posted By: Brian

This approach may bring the auction house more money, but I find it objectionable because the item may or may not be
for sale as a specific lot. That is, it is based on a contingency. Sell it one way or the other. It wastes people's time. In the future, I for one will think twice before bidding
in an auction that plays this game. If that leaves a bunch of cheap cards on the table for you guys, so be it!

Brian

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Posted By: Cat

While most industries believe that their customers are the folks that purchase their product, Auction Houses believe their customers, of primary concern, are the folks that provide their product (consignors). They attempt to maximize the return of this customer (of course this maximizes the Auction House's return as well). I have no problem with that philosophy.

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Posted By: JimB

Dan,
That is a good point. With the Mastro E93 set, that happened to me. I ended up losing on the cards I wanted from that set and because the bidding for those went much longer than the bidding on other lots I was interested in, my backup choices were all closed by the time I knew I had lost the E93s. That would have been less the case in Mile High since all the lots closed simultaneously. I suppose there could have been a surge of bidding on the individual lots, but I think it was clear by early yesterday that those cards were going to somebody buying the whole set.
JimB

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Posted By: Dylan

I agree with Leon on this one. While not a big enough deal to ban an entire auction I don't see myself bidding on individual cards or a set thats auctioned in this format. I only have a limited amount of funds to spend. And i can only imagine how frusterating it would be to put time and energy into this auction to be high bidder on a bunch of cards that you don't actually win. Since these cards aren't cheap it would probably keep you from bidding on other items(it would for me) and you could end up walking out with nothing, and the auction house could miss out on all the funds you had set aside for their auction. Like Leon said, it doesn't guarantee the highest price, and it could people from bidding on other items in the auction.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I put very little time into an auction. I read the listings, figure my maxes, bid them and walk away.

Probably why I rarely win anything...

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Posted By: Brian

That is a very good point that I forgot to mention as well--I always set a budget for myself during an auction, and
having bid on several of those (expensive) cards, I intentionally did not bid on others. I wonder how much the auction house loses
based on this psychology.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Based on the prices realized in the Mile High Auction, doesn't look like he left any money on the table. Those prices seemed awfully strong to me.

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Posted By: leon

Unless you are Kreskin you can't know if Mile High left money on the table. Maybe the 126k'ish for the set we are talking about would have gotten more had the person that won it have to fight on an individual lot basis. Of course maybe that person wouldn't have wanted to either. I think someone that wanted that set, with that kind of discretionary income, very well might have fought for them individually though. I do think it happened on the Texas Tommys (they were type 2's, my mistake ) before and most likely 1-2 people fought for all of them....I will go back to my analogy of the E94 overprints if I were to sell them in an auction. I would ask they be done as singles. That way if someone wants all of them they can still buy them but if someone has about 6 already they can just fight for the ones they need....Obviously the auction house is going to dispose of them the best way to maximize the return for the consignor, and therefore themselves...best regards

edited spelling

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Posted By: barrysloate

My comment was more in the spirit of it looked like they got prices above and beyond what one might expect. Did you see those E98's? Not exactly wholesale. Even 126K for an E90-1 set missing the Jackson and having some cards less than pristine seems satisfactory. Sure, maybe if individual bidders didn't quit there was a chance of getting more, but I don't think the consignor is on the phone with Mile High complaining about it.

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Posted By: JimB

I don't think they suffered because all lots closed at once. So when bidders on individual E90-1s realized it was going to someone winning the whole set, they could direct their resources elsewhere if they wanted. I did that to some extent with E98s. When I lost those, I placed bids on a few other lots and won them. While I like Mastro's policy of closing each lot individually since I can get a better night's sleep, I think that is the one that leaves money on the table. People can't necessarily switch to different lots if they give up on their first choice late when they are closed individually because the chances are your second choice may be closed. This problem is exacerbated with the individual vs. set bidding because those will always finish later than other lots in an auction.
JimB

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Posted By: Bob

I still can't fathom the final price on the E98 Tinker PSA 4. That wasn't one of the four E98s I battled on because I have an orange one already but I was shocked at how high that card went, even without the vig. My humble opinion is that the orange variation is far and away the most prevalent. If it were a red Tinker maybe I could see a hefty bid, but...