Any News From The Reading Show (Philadelphia)

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Posted By: bruce Dorskind

We plan to attend on Saturday and wonder what the early buzz is on
the show...how many vintage dealers are present and the extent
to which rare cards are for sale

Please advise.

America's Toughest Want List

Bruce

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Posted By: MVSNYC

i'm going tomorrow as well...

any updates so far would be great...

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Posted By: Mike Peich

I have just returned from the first Reading Show and I have mixed reactions. Most of the vintage dealers one expected to see at Ft. Washington, including our beloved T-Rex, were there, with a few exceptions like Rand Bailey. The space is quite nice and ample--there was less of a crowded feeling than at Ft. Washington, and the parking is much closer to the venue, a nice touch.

There were a number of conversations about the recent auction house/altered cards thread, proof that a lot of people read the forum. Reactions were predictably mixed.

The weather today was very unpredictable, bordering on tornados. When Tim Newcomb and I arrived the wind was blowing about 45 mph, and shortly thereafter it rained heavily with the temperature dropping from 73 degrees to about 45. I suspect the weather kept people away, as did the extended drive. We thought the crowd was small for a Friday evening.

There was a fair amount of vintage material, but not a whole lot of interesting stuff. There were a umber of T206s, a few T3s and T222s, but not many caramel cards apart from over-priced, slabbed versions. There were some interesting 19c items, and maybe Jay Miller will share his discovery.

In the aggregate it was fun, but we probably won't stay too long tomorrow apart from seeing other Vintage 54 Board members. From my own selfish perspective, there was not a single Pinkerton postcard in the house. And, I bought far less than ever before.

I'm looking forward to seeing other Board members tomorrow, and to reading other reactions to the show.

Cheers, Mike

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Posted By: Alan

Just got back from the Reading, PA show. Great show - maybe a few less people than the old Ft. Washington Friday night crowd. Lots of vintage cards, memorabilia, etc,... it had everything...

Most of the auction houses were represented as well as all the grading companies. I especially liked the marketing philosophy that one of the auction companies had !!!)

Alan

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Posted By: Jay

Mike--Nice seeing you at the show. Here is the card you are referring to, a scarce Keefe Old Judge spelling error.

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Posted By: Cobby33

Did anyone determine who "we" was??? Just curious...

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Posted By: Bobby

Thought the show was slow in traffic and a lot of people complaining about the venue being in the middle of nowhere. Walked the show and thought the vintage inventory was outstanding. As always lots of T206's,T205's, some T201's, E-cards and actually a number of T204's. Don't think I saw any T202's Mostly pre-war material and very few shinny card booths. Did not inquire about prices so can't tell you about that. Memory Lane is showing off the Wagner in the current auction. Will be posting pictures today on my website for everyone to see like we did at the National

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Posted By: Jay

I also should have mentioned that I spent alot of time hanging around the SGC table at the show waiting for my submissions. For those of you who don't know them, Dave, Sean and the rest of the SGC guys are great--knowledgeable and really good guys. I also read over the latest copy of the SGC magazine. It has really come a long way and is now one of the best sources of vintage info in the hobby.

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Posted By: Judson Hamlin

I was there last night and, all things considered, I'd rather be in Philadelphia (or at least Ft. Washington). The dealers were most of the usual vintage specialists, although every year it seems that there are more and more chrome/refractor/bat card stalls than before. The facility itself is very nice and, as Kevin Savage remarked, "I think they just finished painting the floor this morning". Prices were all over the place, from fair to head scratching. For the former, I'd like to thank Ted Zandakis for a great deal on a T206 Matty w/a Cycle back and some C46's. For the latter, well, let them remain anonymous.
Getting to the site was a challenge. To anyone coming from 78, beware the 222/Business 222 split as you get to Reading. To skip some traffic, you might want to try 222 to 73 to 12. ALso, the site is poorly marked and 12th Street isn't marked. Look for Exposition Drive instead. If leaving after dark, not much lighting exists.
All in all, a good (but not great) show and worth the drive if you anticipate it taking much longer than Google says.

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Posted By: leon

right there with ya'......

My real question is "Did any fights break out?" ....good ole Thrilla in Manilla's are hard to find nowadays. I saw a few tables come crashing down at this years National and heard a few fists went flying (a tad late for the fists I only heard the ruckus)....Hopefully all was civil and buys/sells/trades brisk...

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Posted By: Scott L

I had about $400 bucks in my pocket that I wanted to spend which I know isn't going to excite anyone but I found most of the prices to be really inflated. I was looking for T2O6's and one dealer had a Wallace 2, a Kelly 2 (the HOF'er) and a 2 common with an EPDG back and offered all 3 to me for $375. I didn't know what the escaltor was for the EPDG back but as I was thinking about it he asked me "why are you even thinking about it, it's a great deal." I passed as I didn't think it was all that great or even good for that matter. Another guy had a really nice PSA 4 Evers portrait that before I even looked at the price I thought I'd pay $100 over SMR for it. That thought quickly vanished when I saw the price on the back, $975.

Another guy had 4 PSA 4 commons with common backs (3 Piedmonts and an SC), I asked what he could do for all 4 and he said $250. Based on ebay sales I thought that was a bit high, $200 was probably more reasonable. I passed on those as well.

I did end up buying a PSA 3 Bresnahan and a PSA 3 Wallace for $275 from the same guy who had the Evers. Probably overpaid a bit but they are pretty nice cards with nice colors. I didn't want to leave empty handed and he did come down $75 off his "sticker price" so I took them.

I did overhear one dealer talking to a guy about a card he had in an 8 holder and was saying "wait till you see it as a 9" I thought that was interesting given recent events.

After buying a few cards from him at the Fort shows and then reading his insights here I stopped by Ted Z's table to just say hello but he was busy with someone and I didn't want to interrupt.

Sorry for the long and probably boring post.

Scott

PS. I did see the Wagner that Memory Lane will have in it's latest auction and I have to admit it was a thrill to just look at that card in person.

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Posted By: Jack Richards

My son and I just returned to Bethesda, MD, from Reading, PA (Sat p.m.). On the plus side, Reading is a half hour closer to us than Ft. Washington, and it's a nicer drive. On the down side, the Reading Expo Center lacks the "charm" of Ft. Washington, which lacked the charm of Willow Grove.

With some notable exceptions, such as Levi and Triple SSS, PSA 9s from the 50's and 60's (no yelling, please) seemed sparse, but there was a good selection of lower grade vintage. As usual, too many of the nicer cards on display (e.g. Memory Lane's, Mile High's)were earmarked for auction, which always seems like a waste of floor space to me.

I heard a rumor (which may be more than a rumor) that a decent show is being planned for Baltimore in January. Apparently PSA has it on their calendar.

Incidentally, the quarterly Collectors Showcase at the Dulles Expo Center in Chantilly, VA, seems to be picking up steam lately. It still has a way to go, but each show seems to have older, better cards.

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Posted By: bruce Dorskind

We attended the show in Reading.

The directions were poor. The final sixteen miles took us nearly
an hour on what one of the most poorly constructed roads we
have ever traveled.

Thank God, we stopped at a local antique dealer and found two
Ty Cobb back T-206 cards with a Cobb back and another uncut
sheet of Boston Garters.

The show itself did have a number of important Eastern dealers
as well as the key players from all the auction houses.

We were able to add a few PSA 8's to sets we collect like
1915 Cracker Jacks, 1941 Playball and 1953 Bowman Black
and White as well as a wonderful super high grade Plows Candy.

It was great to catch up with Terry from Tik and Tak. Levi from 707
and long time friends like Ron Oser and Doug Allen.

The problem was we were only able to spend 2 hours at the
show because we spent 3 hours each way driving.

Everyone would have been a lot better off if the show was
in the Middle of Manhattan. More on that idea later.


Bruce

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Wow Bruce,

It looked like we took the same road. On a whim, I took a last minute
flight and rented a car. That last 16 miles was horrible as you stated. I
stopped by that same antique shop and the guy said he just sold a few
Cobbs and one of them had a Cobb back. He said that he's had those reprints
for a while and couldn't find anybody would buy them until today!
Luckily, I asked him about a few tobacco related items and
mentioned, Old Judge. He had no idea that the guy named Wright was related
to baseball because he didn't have a baseball uniform on. He then
remembered a box that he hadn't opened in about 50 years and low and
behold there were 106 Old Judge, Just So, Four Base Hits and K-Bat cards.
He basically sold them to me cheap. I didn't have any money
left so I went back to the airport and flew home. All the way home I was
wondering who bought the fake Cobb cards.

edited to make it so people wouldn't have to use the scroll bars.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Bruce- Isn't it interesting that there is never a show in Manhattan? They always say it's too expensive to set up and too costly for people to get a hotel. Hey, Anaheim isn't exactly cheap. I think the next National should be in Brooklyn. Even I might go to that one.

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Posted By: bigfish

I had a great time at the show. I bought a few things and met several people from this board. I met Dan Mckee for the first time. One of the nicest people I have ever met. Reasonable and down to earth. Wish all dealers were like him. Look forward to the National.

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Posted By: Alan

Back in the late 1970's & thru the mid-1980's, there were some shows in New York city that occured on a regular basis...

I think the Javits center might work for a major show, if not a national.

Alan

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Posted By: Judson Hamlin

I'll second (or third) the price comments. I saw a number of PSA or SGC cards T206/E90, etc. that were priced without respect to reality, the SMR, eBay or this board's BST rates. Raw prices were also all over the place. One dealer had 2 E97's - admittedly a tough (and popular set)- of Stienfeld and Murray that were poor/fair with creases, paper loss and such defects, and both over 200. Even if you think that the 2007 vg book of, I think, 250 is low, working that out, 100-125 might have made more sense. I also noticed sharply higher prices (at some tables) for E120s.
I also agree that it does seem like a waste of exhibition space (and overhead) for the auction houses to set up shop. I'm not sure how much walk-in business they get and, with universal internet access, there are probably few, if any, show patrons who don't already know where and when these auctions are going down.

That antique store sounds pretty good. Too bad I already grabbed the T208 set at the next store down the road.

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Posted By: Jim Rivera

The directions were fine until the last few miles.

I took my kids to the show -they love the wacky packages.
It was great talking to Ted and Dan and his dad.
The prices are always high at shows but the vintage prices were so high I didn't even talk to the dealers about buying.
Some price examples
E95 Lord PSA 2-$175
E95 Cobb raw (fair) -$1400
T206 commons PSA 4-$275
T206 PSA 1 Hindu $225
T206 PSA 1 Revelle/Hindu-$375

It seemed tobe not as many people, you could get around very easy. The parking was closer too.

There was a board member at Teds table that wanted some scans from me. I didn't get your name or email. You had that red Cobb. If you want email and I will send the scans we were talking about.

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Posted By: David Seaborn

I, too, attended the show. Although the site was more removed and the prices were high, it was nice just to have the show back after the layoff. There's still enough nice material there to make it worth going. (It'll never be like it once was, but it still crushes almost any other show this side of the National). Nice talking to Jay Miller, Dan McKee, and Terry Knouse....Ted Z. - I tried but everytime I went over to your table you had a crowd, you must have done well!

I want to give special thanks to Sean at SGC and Bobby at Vintage Card Prices. SGC really came through for me. Recently, I purchase a vintage card in an old SGC holder graded an 86. I submitted it at the show for a new holder. It came back trimmed and SGC immediately offered to buy the card back from me. Then, relying on Bobby's database, we were able to look up the transaction and get the correct refund in full down to the last dollar. It's just one more example of what a class act SGC is running, as well as another useful purpose for Bobby's data. Nice to finally meet you Bobby, I wish we had more time.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

went today with a friend and my dad...rented an SUV and made the trip from mid-town manhattan...round trip in one day. we were disappointed the see that the expo center was just as bland as ft. wash. (atlantic city's convention center is the best venue i've been to for a show)...these expo centers always feel like big gymnasiums.

ok, so as far as the "goods", as mentioned before i collect high-grade T206 cards, i saw only about 2 tables that had 7's-8's...my friend worked-out a trade for a 7, and i didn't buy a single thing...i was impressed by memory lane (JP is very cool, we spoke for awhile).


BUT...most impressive was this slightly older gentleman sitting in the very last row, at a little table. he had a small variety of vintage cards and actually did have 2 PSA 8 T206's...THEN, he asks if i collect rare backs, i said yes, he said look at these...he then pulled-out (i swear on my grandfather's grave) 2 (TWO) Broadleaf 460's, both SGC graded, then he flipped them over, one was a cy young, glove 5.5, the other was johnson, hands 5...asking prices: 30,000 & 22,000...this is a TRUE story, we almost fell over.

i ended up leaving the show with not one thing. for me eBay & major auction houses have the material i am looking for...these shows are good for networking and mingling...

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Posted By: Bobby

Some one put they don't know wheher or not the Auction houses should be at these shows anymore. So far this show 2 Magie's came in and got graded SGC 10 & 50. As well as a T210-8 Jackson that graded an SGC 40 very nice card that I am pretty sure we will see in an upcoming Mastro auction. The good stuff is still walking in the door at these shows and seems that they are older gentlemen that most likely are not on the Internet.

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Posted By: Jay

I was thinking about going up to the show today to buy some raw T206s in about VG-VGEX grade or 2's 3's and 4's. Did anyone have good prices on this type of material. Is it worth it for me to make a 2 hour trip up there for the end of the day Sunday?

If any board members have this type of "stuff" for sale at a good price please email at vettejayk@aol.com

T206kid

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Posted By: Joe D.

I think it would be hard to find 'good' prices.... but the last day of a show, I guess you can always make offers that suit your budget. The worst they could say is no, and maybe there will be incentive to sell more on the last day.

But, I did enjoy the show - and it was cool to see all of the great stuff... to me it is worthwhile to go just for that.

Not to sound negative... because I am sure I will go in March... but the show did seem to step down a notch in vintage coolness - and it was pushed an hour further from my home... so that was a double negative. Still worth the trip for me though.

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Posted By: Lyle

was getting to see Joe's 1903 Matty PC in person...it was truly spectacular ! It was also great to make a hobby contact ( not a dealer ) for a Joe Jackson item but I didn't see much else I really wanted except for the auction house tables .

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Posted By: steve

Any T204 Ramly's for sale at the show, and wondering if they want a ton of money for them? Thanks

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Posted By: Bob Shannon

Bobby, I did see the SGC 40 T210 Jackson...I was at Dan Mckee's table when an older gentleman showed it to him...I'm curious..Was he a walk in?

Bob Shannon

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Posted By: Joe D.

It was great meeting you and getting to talk cards / and show and tell.

I do regret not saying hello to Dan McKee (I didn't realize he was a vendor), and not saying hello to Ted Z. as well (thats inexcusable - don't know why I forgot that one... sorry Ted, sometimes my brain is like scrambled eggs).

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Posted By: Bobby

Bob,

The Jackson owner was a walk in and hearing from the powers to be has a huge collection of everything all raw and one of the old collectors. I think Mastro has the inside track on him if he is going to sell and over hearing there is another collector in his same town that has just as nice a collection.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Going to see Ted is a must for any regular here,great guy to talk to! Thanks for the Hafey Ted,and the SL'er upgrade is need is Smith,Atlanta if you have it....mine is ratty

It was good to see some board regulars,even if my stay was short

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

1st....I would like to thank all the members who posted nice comments....I always enjoy
meeting and talking BB cards with them. Forum members I met with......

Mike Peich
Tim Newcomb
Kevin Cummings
Paul Kaufman
Dan McKee and Dad
Judd Hamlin
Keith O'Leary
Jim Rivera
John Dreker
Jeff Mohler
Alan (Jewish coll.)
8 - "readers" (who don't post)

and really enjoyed lengthy conversations on Vintage cards with.....

Ken Cohen
Ted Golden
John (Wonkaticket)

I was very happy with all three days at the Show. And, increased my all-Sovereign set by
20 cards....including 8 - HOFers. I'm up to 322 cards in this set; but do need "biggies".....

Cobb's (bats on & off) and CYoung's (port & glove).

Scott Ingold.....where were you.....surfing on those waves off Little Egg Harbour shores ?

T-Rex TED

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Posted By: Scott Mosley

Hey Ted,

Count me among those that stopped by at a bad time when you were busy working with a few customers.

I had hoped to have a breif chat and say hello but I hit your table at a bad time.

I'm sure we'll see you at the spring show.

Regards,

Scott

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I was told you were at the Show and I was hoping to see you.....as, I had brought the
blue CROFTS Candy McGraw with me to show you.

Oh well, next time just interrupt whatever is transpiring....seeing a good friend is worth
more to me than any deal going on.

TED Z

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Posted By: Josh Adams

"Thank God, we stopped at a local antique dealer and found two
Ty Cobb back T-206 cards with a Cobb back and another uncut
sheet of Boston Garters."

Bruce, any chance you can get scans of the uncut Boston Garters sheet? That seems like a fantastic find. Congrats!


Go Go White Sox
2005 World Series Champions!

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Posted By: Scott M

Ted,

Now I really am upset we didn't get to talk!

Definitely bring it along with you to the next show and I'll make it a point to interupt or at least hang around longer so we can chat.

Scott

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Posted By: Mike

I just picked up my cards this morning that got graded at the Show. I'm told it was a lousey show. But more to the point, a card given to SGC was an Overland - Foxx. They did not grade it, because they could not figure out what it was....?????? I am fed up, to my ears with bitching about grading companies, as is everyone else here. But, can I ask, where do they get there graders from? Saul's temporary services? I mean come on. Now I have to resubmit it. This has happened to all the big three, and I know there is nothing we can do about it. But I had to get it off my chest..I have a very low tolerance for incomptetence.