O/T Vintage Non-Sports Cards

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Posted By: Jerry Hrechka

My collecting area is Pre WW2 Non-Sports War related cards. I specialize in Gum Inc. WW2 era cards. Is there a forum that focuses on Vintage Non-Sports cards like this one does on BB cards? The Non-Sport Update forums & CU forums focus on modern cards.
I have lurked here, for over a year, and have gained a significant amount of knowledge - so much that I have been tempted to start on a vintage BB card collection.
Any help would be appreciated.
Leon- I'm sorry for the O/T post from a newbie.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

I collect the same stuff. If you find a site, please advise me.

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Posted By: Ray

I collect pre-war non-sport stuff too. I haven't found any other forums but those two either. It's even tough to find checklists or other information for a lot of popular sets (I still haven't found most of them for the sets I'm collecting). Let me know if you find anything and I'll do the same...

Thanks, Ray

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Posted By: leon

It's cool....when folks know what they are doing on the board there is some leniency given. When they just come on the board and blurt out about Topps, Donruss, Fleer etc...without mentioning they know it's off topic, and are new to the board, then that's different. Join in our discussions a little, even if only to say "WOW, Cool card" and every once in a while you can slip in a non sports thread...as per the rules....I really don't know of a good forum for the non sports stuff but maybe someone on this board will?....good luck and best regards

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Posted By: Jerry Hrechka

Ray - I have a few Reference Books on Vintage Non-Sports cards. Let me know which sets you need checklists for.

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Posted By: Rich Klein

Please note that perhaps the best non-sports show in the country is held each year in the area. If you are within a couple hours of the show, I'd go there to work on your collection, network with dealers and see if they know about an internet board of your interest.

Please note that this website listed below is a link to the show promoter --
http://www.reightershows.com/

Good luck in your quest

Rich Klein

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Jerry: I am interested in any information on the Famous War Posters set, unknown manufacturer, description - thin card stock, war poster miniatures of Govt. issued posters, 2"x3", blank backs.

Issue not in Sport Americana 1930-1960 Guide.

They appear to have been manufacturered around the war, obtained several cards from Lipset, who also believed them to be a 40s issue.

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Posted By: Ray

Jerry,

I really appreciate your help.

Here is the list of sets I need checklists for:

1888 N2 Allen & Ginter American Indian Chiefs
1933 Indian Gum (Goudey)
1933 Horrors of War
1941 Uncle Sam/Uncle Sam Home Defense (are these two different sets?)

Those are the big ones for now. What's the name of the book you have?

If you have a scanner, just scan the checklists and email me those (in other words, I don't want you to have to type them all up for me).

Thanks, Ray

gotsparks@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Anonymous

I have a good number of these little beauties and would also be interested in communicating with collectors.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Ray, the Sport Americana Price Guides for Non-Sports Cards covers all of those sets, and others, I believe. These are publications which are out of print, however. A new guide is antipicated soon (or has been recently released).

See the B/S/T - I listed some Uncle Sam cards (which are different from the Home Defense set) for trade, today.

The Sport Americana publications are sometimes available on ebay.

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Posted By: Jerry Hrechka

Ray - All the checklists you want are available on the PSA website (WWW.psacard.com). Click on PSA Set Registry, then on Non-Sports. Find the set you are interested in and click on it. You will see a list of the sets currently registered. On the bottom you'll see "View Set Composition". That gives you the checklist for the set.
Actually I was under the impression that the Uncle Sam/Home Defense was one set. Nos. 1 to 96 are Uncle Sam then the numbering continues from 97 to 144 as Uncle Sam's Home Defense. The Sport Americana Guide to Non-Sports cards list it as one set - R157. Here's an example.
Nos. 97 to 120 are scarcer than Nos. 1 to 96, but can be found. Nos. 121 to 144 are virtually impossible to find. In the last 3 years on Ebay only a handfull from that series has been offered for sale.

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Posted By: Andrew

Most vintage non-Sports collectors know of this excellent reference, but just in case:

American Tobacco Card by Forbes & Mitchell

I'm looking for anything with Holland, The Netherlands, Dutch East Indies, Sumatra or Java...especially N series.

I'm not aware of any sites besides CU. A decent quarterly pub is the Non-Sports Update by Roxanne Toser Non Sport Enterprises, about $16 per year. My subscription ran out, so not sure if they are still publishing.

“A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.” - English Proverb

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Posted By: Ray

Jerry - thanks for the info and PSA idea. I already knew that but of course forgot about it.

Andrew - Non-Sport Update is still around. I actually recently subscribed to it and got my very first one today.

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Posted By: Bill Todd

OSeedy, drop me an e-mail about those T42s. Yes they are beautiful cards.

Thanks,

Bill

btodd42@aol.com

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

Cut and paste.........

Agate Arrow Point
Always Riding
Arkikita
Big Bear
Big Chief
Big Elk
Big Razor
Big Snake
Black Eye
Black Hawk (Sioux)
Black Hawk (Sac & Fox)
British
Bull Head
Cayatanita
Chief Gall
Chief Joseph
Clam Fish
Crow's Breast
Deer Ham
Geronimo
Great Bear
Great War Chief
Grey Eagle
Hairy Bear
Iron Bull
John Grass
John Yellow Flower
Keokuk
Keokuk's Son
King of the Crows
Lean Wolf
Mad Bear
Man and Chief
Many Horns
Noon Day
Red Bird
Red Cloud
Red Shirt
Red Thunder
Rushing Bear
Sitting Bull
Spotted Tail
Striker
True Eagle
White Shield
White Swan
War Captain
Weteunie
Young Black Dog
Young Whirlwind

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Posted By: Ray

Thanks Tom for the checklist!

And thanks to Leon for keeping this thread alive...

-Ray

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

I suppose it could be all one set, particularly if you want to bring facts into play. But I prefer impressions in this case. And with different names, different subject matter and varying prices, I prefer to think of the Uncle Sam as a set which is different from the Uncle Sam Home Defense.

Just my opinion, of course.

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Posted By: Ray

Gil

After doing some more research, they are a lot different...and a lot the same.

It seams like series 1 (Uncle Sam) focuses on military (how it operates during war), where as Series 2 (Uncle Sam Home Defense) focuses on civilian/military preperation for the war.

The 2nd series is much tougher to come by because of the war restrictions placed on resources.

To make a long (and hopefully accurate) story short, they definitely look different to me too. That, with the fact that they were issued at different times, with a different focus, makes me count them as seperate sets too. Oh, and they're listed as both R157 and R158, so technically they are different.

PS - check my reply to your B/S/T thread regarding these cards. Thanks, Ray

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Posted By: Jerry Hrechka

I didn't know that the Home Defense part had a different R No. than the Uncle Sam cards. My reference book lists them as one set (R157).
I have seen these cards sold as a 96 card set (Frequently), a 120 card set (Rarely) - but never have I seen the 144 card set offered for sale.
At one time I had the 120 card set plus 11 of the high numbers. Unfortunately I made the mistake of selling them (Big Mistake). I am rebuilding the set once more.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Ray: I will follow up on our trade by e-mail. There is no need to bog the threads down with details that no one else is interested in.

Please note: I have added some additional cards, which also appear to be off target for your primary non-sport collecting interests. These are cards of the 1800s and the 1950s.

And as far as the Uncle Sam sets, they may be cataloged differently, and have different subjects, but the sequence of the Gum Inc. set presentations are all interrelated. And that is a part of their charm. They run the gamut of the potential horrors of war thru our preparedness, the world at war, our involvement, the action, successes, outcomes; then it is picked up in the fifties with Korea, the Red Menace, our technological war advancements, lots of sabre rattling, then the Sputnik surprise.

It makes for an interesting collection. But lots of cards. Fortunately few are costly.

Feel free to e-mail me at identify7@peoplepc.com

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Posted By: Eric B

Hey, some of us don't mind. Here's something interesting to look at that I just picked up. A previously unknown T64 McAlpin

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Posted By: Jerry Hrechka

Nice card Eric - Could you give some more info. about the card and the T64 set? The more details, the more you learn.

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Posted By: paulstratton

T64's are tough. Nice pickup Eric. I saw that one but forgot to put in a snipe.

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Posted By: Eric B

I'll give you what I know. If anyone can correct me or add anything, then please do.

Set produced by a small tobacco company around 1902-1905. Very scarce set of 48 known cards of war Generals from the usual Revolutionary War and Civil War heroes to uncommon war generals from the Spanish-American and Boer wars.

I believe exactly 15 of them have been sold on Ebay in the last 3 years. 9 went to 1 collector, 5 to me, and 1 to a relative of the General depicted who bid way more than expected. Maybe 2-3 others sold as well. Not a lot for a 48 card set. And 10 of them would be graded in poor condition with serious defects. If I was to guess, I would say they are rarer than Kalamazoo Bats BB cards, but not as rare as Yum-Yums. But that is hard to judge since BB cards get the attention - even non collectors who find them know they can be sold but those who find Generals may not realize there is a market for them too.

Anyway, the 48 card set was unusual in that the most famous US General of all, Robert E Lee was not in the set. Being a rare set, it was believed that it may exist and also another to make it a 50 card set which was the norm. Well now you know the rest of the story as the Robert E Lee card has surfaced. Possibly it was short printed. Now this is the only known example, but I suppose that now someone on this board will have one as well.

This card was actually part of an Ebay auction that did not reach the reserve. It was mislabelled so I missed it. I just happened to review completed auctions based on price and saw it after the fact. I've been working for the last 6 months to get it on the side. He had others too, but a dealer swooped in on those, but didn't put up enough for the Lee card. Probably didn't know what he was missing.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

sorry I didn't answer your email on this but, if you don't mind.....how much did or do they typically sell for?

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Posted By: paulstratton

Eric, I jumped the gun and just assumed that was the one on ebay recently. I didn't look closely because the pic was too small. I've seen a few more of these over the years but not many more. They are almost always mis-labeled when they are listed. I think these and the n114's are the most beautiful of the 19th century sets. Anyone seen a complete n114 set either?

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Posted By: Anonymous

I resized it. For some reason it was looking huge on my home PC, but was tiny when I got to my work PC. I think it looks normal now. The good one that sold last week was Sickles.

The prices are all over the place right now. I paid $110 for a poor one (chunk missing, back paper loss) and $50 for a VG one. Please don't up the bids on me. As long as cwick74 doesn't go after them, they are out of reach for my budget yet.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

I got too many other sets to deal with!

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

The Wrapper
Not as many articles as Old Cardboard, usually one + B/S/T + plenty of for sale advertisements, letters, etc. $22./yr.
LesWrap@cs.com
(630) 443-9690

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Posted By: runscott

Urrpp...Topps, Donruss, Fleer....urrrpppp

I just bought my first non-baseball item in a while: Allen & Ginters album page with chess players. I wanted to accumulate the cards to make a display, so this saved me a bit of trouble, and should look good in a frame:

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Posted By: runscott

I will second Andrew's recommendation of "American Tobacco Cards" by Forbes & Mitchell

Bob Forbes knows as much as anyone about non-sports tobacco cards, and studies the heck out of all the little nuances, etc., plus he's very pleasant to discuss things with.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

RUNSCOTT

Sorry, but I have to correct you....your Chess players' page is from the 1888 (or 1889)
N162 Album

I have the complete album....designated A36 in the ACCatalog.

T-Rex TED

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Posted By: Ricky Y

I loved the old G-Men and Indian Gum cards...

"I'll trade you John Dillinger for Billy the Kid!"

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Posted By: leon

Just for you....

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Dinosaur-Foto-Fun-Photo-Printing-Kit-T-Rex-1958_W0QQitemZ130030956382QQihZ003QQcategoryZ3230Q QssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

LEON

You are too much.....gave me a good laugh....especially wondering if I had
this item as a kid.

Anyhow.....here's some vintage Non-Sports cards.....no Dinosaurs, though.

T-Rex TED

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Posted By: Eric B

As long as we get 1 non-sports thread, here's something rare for the N224 Kinney Military fans.

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Posted By: Ray

I might as well post some of my favorites (of the tiny non-sport collection that I have so far):



T99 Sights and Scenes of the World




1933 Indian Gum

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Posted By: jay behrens

My favorite non-sports card I own:



Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: runscott

Hi Ted - it's an area I know next to nothing about. I just liked the litho and have nothing to hang on my apartment wall!

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

RUNSCOTT

Your page is a great piece of 19th Century Lithographic art. About a year ago, or so,
I displayed all 12 pages of this beautifully produced Album....here is the Tennis page.

T-Rex TED

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Posted By: runscott

Ted - those are indeed beautful. Perfectly undetstandable why Victorian-era Americans were so into collecting the litho trade cards of their day. The litho quality was incredible back then - definitely an area where 'faster and cheaper' has yielded dubious results.

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Posted By: Chris Ahart

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Posted By: Scot

Also, just bought this on on ebay.

Edited: Leon, If this is over the top just delete. It's a sick world and I'm a happy guy.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270029876329>

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Posted By: leon

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Posted By: Eric B

Did you buy the N165 album, Leon? I was short by $90 on my bid. I was really considering going up another $400 or so, but funds are tight. I think it was a good price.

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Posted By: Jerry Hrechka

Great Stuff everyone. Love the scans of items posted.

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Posted By: Greg

I've always enjoyed this one from our collection of Brewery advertising from Rhode Island. Goes to show you that you shouldn't drink while riding a bike (trade card c.1900)

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Posted By: Anonymous

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Posted By: Keith O'Leary

Shoot me an email. Keith

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Posted By: Anonymous

You guys amaze me with the breadth of your knowlege. Who knows about these?