What % of your collection is still raw?

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Posted By: John Harrell

About 99.9% is raw. The only exceptions are a handful of slabbed cards that just happened to come that way. Like several others, I like the feel of the raw card.

John

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Posted By: bruce dorskind

We have about 230 different pre-1950 cards in our collection.

All but 12 cards are graded. The cards that are not graded are
ones which SCG and PSA heretofore have chosen not to grade.
This was primarily due to the odd size - i.e. American Caramel E 125
We understand that with the addition of several new holders this will no longer
present an issue of the grading services.

Approximately 10% of the cards are graded "9"
Approximately 50% are graded 8
Approximately 25% are graded 7
Approximately 15% of the cards are graded 5 or 6. However, each of these
cards is the highest or second highest type card ever graded in particular set.

We have a number of 19th century Team cabinets such as as Kalamazoo Bat
Team Cabinets which, to our knowledge, have never been graded by either
PSA or SGC.

I trust that we have answered your querry.

Best.


Bruce

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Posted By: jP

if i had to guess and im no math wiz i would say about 98% maybe more of my collection is raw.

i may send some more of my favorites or prouder cards to get graded.

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Posted By: John

Bruce,

Something always puzzles me about your posts?

Who exactly is “We”??

Is it your collection or a group of people?

Or are you an evil villain in a Bond movie therefore forced to talk in the third person all the time???

Just curious, love to see some images of these one-of-a-kind gems your always talking about.

Best of luck in your quest and such.

John

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Posted By: Martin Neal

My collection is about 90% raw. I have about 800 prewar cards that would not get a grade of vg/x or better. They will probably stay ungraded. Although I am trying to put together a graded T205 set (one-fourth the way there), I have started to rethink this whole grading thing.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

i love these responses...someone hit the nail right on the head by saying, "you raw guys where it like a badge of honor"...that vibe comes across so clearly, and has a slight air of arrogance, as if to say, whoever collects graded cards is not cool, or not real collectors in a way...just being honest, that is the tone of most of these responses. sorry to use this analogy, but it is like the "raw" guys are so big on this "natural" theory, almost like unpretected sex...o'naturale...LOL...

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Posted By: Anonymous

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Posted By: dd

>98% raw

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Posted By: Keith O'Leary

25% raw.

 

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I thought I had heard just about all there is to hear from the "paranoid" card
collectors out there that think Graded cards are the one and only way to collect.

But, this "b.....s" is too much.....I read your 1st post but dismissed it.
But, this latest post of yours, I cannot dismiss.....are you serious PC ?

If you are, then I only feel sorry for you......because you are not really enjoying
this hobby. Your rantings, just show me you are in it for "mercenary puposes" and
that is just sad.

And, who are you to tell a large number of us that our collections are in "dire" jeopardy
sometime in the far off future. You don't really know us and you have no right to judge
our collecting habits from your "narrow-minded" interests in this great hobby.

Furthermore, do you fashion yourself as some sort of "guru", who can predict where this
hobby will be in the future ?

Boy, if that is what you are banking on....it, too, is very sad and very risky. There are
a lot of us who enjoy our cards in the PRESENT.....we flip them over and read their backs.
We research our BB encyclopedia and various publications to further gain insight into the
ballplayers depicted on these cards.

And, if they just happen to increase in value as time goes on......then I look at that as
"icing on the cake". But, I certainly do not depend on my cards (whether Graded or Un-
graded....NrMt or Vg) to make me rich someday down the road.

T-Rex TED

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Michael,

Thats kinda funny.

We are in a transition stage where the grading of vintage cards is transforming the hobby. Many long-time hobbyists are resisting--particularly those that do not have a profit motive as part of the reason they collect.

As collections are passed on they will be graded and it will become rare when vintage cards are not graded by one of the major companies for the obvious reasons stated here....and the hobby will be all the better for it. And yes as also stated here many collectors will find that what they previously thought were near-mint or ex-mint cards will not grade because they have been trimmed, restored or altered in some way shape or form and if past is prologue what they thought were nr-mint collections turn out to be graded substantially lower.

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Posted By: John

Well-said Ted!

Ted I guess you and I are out of luck no one will want our stuff, oh well. A PA man huh? Me as well Ted, explain why we aren’t getting together and swapping cards and drinking coffee in open cups (around all these un-protected cards)

There is also a flip side PC to your scenario regarding cards which were thought to be 7’s which came back 4’s etc.

Crack out your 7’s 8’s and 9’s and have a nobody submit them, curious to see how many get slabbed at the same tier again, if not submitted by a large dealer.

In fact how many 9's are 9's if 100% un-altered would come back a 9 again, and not an 8, 7 or even a 6?

I have some graded cards, mostly because the ones I buy are already graded and I’m too lazy to crack them out. I don’t wear the fact that 95% of my collection is un-graded like a badge either. I however do see some serious issues with grading, all of which I will not go into here, I see it like trying to convince a religious person that God doesn’t exist. You can try but most of the time you’re just spinning your wheels.

With that said I can assure that the past 20+ years of collecting has given me the ability accurately grade cards better than 95% of the graders that any of the grading companies have. Could one slip by me…sure never said I was perfect, but you know what? They slip by the grading companies too!

As for raw, well one was bought raw last year and one was bought graded. Take a guess which one cost a $100?



For the record I’m a card collector not a grade collector, I think that’s a fundamental difference here with the way some of us collect.

I think my collection and me are going to be just fine, but thanks for the advice.

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Posted By: Anonymous

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Posted By: steve f

I slab everything vintage, because I just don't have the confidence to judge accurately yet. I realize I'll be taking my dirtnap, but still have an unfounded fear of being remembered as the crooked granpapi that bequeethed counterfeits.

Wonka; Very nice turtle doves. The one on the right, raw?

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Posted By: Anonymous

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Posted By: Scott Gross

100% raw (including the T206 BEAU-ty I sold to John W. ..... )

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

You know, I have no problem with people who prefer to keep their cards raw. Raw cards are beautiful. I have no problem with people who prefer to have all their cards graded. That's just fine, too, if they like it that way.

I have no problem with people who like to collect all PSA 8s. Those cards are gorgeous and valuable and pleasing to the eye. I have no problem with people who like to collect beaters that look like they went through the wash. Those cards are fun and tell stories.

I have no problem with people who collect prewar, postwar, modern, shiny, or anything else. There's plenty of room in this hobby for everyone, and plenty to collect. I can learn something from all of it.

But I DO have a problem with someone calling me "mindless and lemminglike" because they're resistant to the fact that there might be other ways of doing things than their own. In my opinion, a person like that is, at best, short-sighted and intolerant and at worst, silly and boring. And if they choose to insult the alternative at every possible opportunity EXCEPT the one where there's the opportunity for personal financial gain, they're also kinda hypocritical.

-Al

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Posted By: John

Scott,

That’s right the Beaumont did come from you raw on ebay, see a little trust and a whole bunch of hope can pay off. I’ll see if I can’t have GAI label it the “mybuddyinc ebay deal find” on the flip.

How have you been? Drop me a line sometime love to catch up.

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Posted By: Richard

I agree with Al 100%

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Posted By: robert

Thanks for the responses everyone!


When I started this thread, I did not intend to insult anyone interested in grading. I enjoy graded cards and I'm not interested at all in demeaning anyone who chooses to have all their cards graded. People enjoy this hobby in different ways.

I was more interested in whether or not there were still collections out there that remained totally or almost totally raw.

I will say that I am surprised at the number of people who have a good percentage of raw cards in their collection.

Rob

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Posted By: MVSNYC

...doesn't surprise me on this board.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

There was a time, almost before my time, when collectors did not worry about reprints, shaved cards, soaking and pressing, professional card doctors, etc. That time is gone forever. Now we have two factions of collectors posting in this thread.

The collectors who want quality and realize that they don't know enough to clearly establish the legitimacy of their purchase, in part because even the grading companies differ in their assesments.

And the old schoolers, who have done their time. And are proud that they can accomplish what is needed based solely on their experience. I wonder if anyone can be sure.

But yes. Someone can. But they don't post in this thread. They sit back, knowing what they've got. Almost laughing and not wanting either faction in their hobby segment. As Bama says:” Even though I collect beaters, it's nice to know that the guides reflect what this board has echoed for a while. The market for prewar is strong in all grades”. You see, the beaters are mostly the way it was. And if you check the beater thread, it really is not too high a price to pay, imho.

And if you buy one that was once holdered as Authentic, you too can get the enjoyment of the sound that the "clanking" of plastic provides. If you save the two halves once you crack it out.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

...nice to see that in my short time on the board, i have coined a phrase...

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Posted By: Richard

"The collectors who want quality and realize that they don't know enough to clearly establish the legitimacy of their purchase, in part because even the grading companies differ in their assesments."

What a crock.

Because I buy a graded card on ebay or in an auction house, does it mean that I "don't know enough to clearly establish the legitimacy of (my) purchase"?

Or could it be that I don't trust the random ebay seller, who is most cases is a complete stranger, to be able to accurately determine grade and authenticity of a raw card, let alone provide a decent scan?


edited for poor grammar

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

I like the sound of my cards clanking together, and I like the smell of plastic.

-Al

EDIT: By the way, Gil, unless you're ignoring me as a poster in this thread, I don't fall into either of your two categories. I can't speak for Richard, but I don't think he does, either.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Well, as you said......

"Ted I guess you and I are out of luck no one will want our stuff, oh well."

That's fine with me....I do not intend to sell all my vintage "RAAAAAWWWW" cards.
I will pass them onto my Grandson, Ron. He already knows more about BB than I do.
He plays BB for the U of Maine team and he appreciates my collection almost as much
as I do.

So, John, as far as I am concerned....my "RAAAAWWWW" cards are priceless. It has
taken me 30 years to upgrade my sets from Ex to Ex/Mt. And, at my age I don't need
to pay someone $10 - $25 to tell me the grade of each of my cards.

Besides, I would go broke having 20,000+ cards graded.

John, I recall you briefly stopped at my booth at the Philly Show. We Pennsylvanians
have to get to get together and do some trading. I will email you.

TED Z

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

As I am sure that you can appreciate, Al and Richard, the employment of generalization to characterize the dichotomy in a 70 post thread has to ignore the statistically insignificant outliers. That is, you to valued gentlemen. Be assured that you are not alone, although you may be in this thread.

This procedure does not result in my presentation being a "crock", nor does it reflect that I have ignored anyone. In fact, I share your viewpoint - so there are at least three of us.

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Posted By: Richard

Then Gil and Al, let's join hands as the lone representatives of the statistically insignificant and have a beer!

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Im afraid that it is only while in this thread that you can wear your statistically insignificant badge of honor. Outside of here, you may just be insignificant, or an outlier, or anything at all!

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Graded card collectors are "the collectors who want quality and realize they don't know enough to clearly establish the legitimacy of their purchase".

I guess down the road all collectors will be stupid.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Why wait for down the road? Jump on the stupid wagon now!

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Posted By: Anonymous

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Ted is a teddy bear in a tyranosarus costume. Ask him. (from a safe distance).

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

I resemble all of Al's remarks.

But if you go back and look at the 7th post, Al's, it is easy to see that even though he lacks all of my shortcomings, he could not answer the question. I stand by my shortsighted and intollerant comments. The question was "% raw" and Al's answer is "% graded". I may be a silly bore, but at least I can be responsive.

Realistically, more than 3 of my cards have been graded, but only 3 remain intombed at this moment. The rest are out of their plastic purgatory, free at last. I've helped a couple of dozen escape.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I think the war between collectors who like raw cards and those who like graded ones will rage on until the current generation of oldtimers is dead and buried. While I do not collect cards if I did I would probably still prefer to keep them raw. But when I decided to sell, I would have them graded in a heartbeat. If you try to sell them raw, they will just be graded by the next guy and instead of you getting all the money he will reap everything you left on the table. You can collect any way you want, but there is only one way to sell. For better or for worse.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Zero....

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

I don't lack ALL of your shortcomings. I can be nitpicky too, sometimes.

-Al

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

You can't even dream of half of my shortcomings... but collecting slabbed cards because of the slab isn't one of them.

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Posted By: Anonymous

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

I don't view that as a shortcoming. I view it as a matter of personal preference. It doesn't happen to be my personal preference, but I don't feel the need to make a personal crusade out of it.

My opinion - which, granted, is being offered without solicitation - is that you spend a lot of time railing about grading, and about people who collect cards in slabs. I already know how you feel about grading. You don't need to remind me over and over and over. I get it. Frank Wakefield doesn't like grading. I remember this because you make it a point to insult anyone who does at every opportunity.

You clearly are a knowledgeable hobby guy - I'd so much rather read posts from you where you share your knowledge, instead of posts that tell me I'm an idiot because I can't smell my cards.

Guys, I'm sorry about participating in derailing a decent thread. I'll try and stop.

-Al

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Posted By: leon

If anyone cares to look about 70 posts up you will see that I believe I have struck the perfect balance. Almost 50/50 graded vs raw, but almost all of the value slabbed. I can smell, touch, and caress 1/2 of the little devils and still know that almost all of the value in my collection has been saved from my clumsy hands.....and authenticated by a 3rd party (99% SGC, the few others in other holders just came that way). This is a very easy discussion and is really so simple. If you like plastic- wonderful, you are a friend in collecting, if you like unslabbed- wonderful....you are a friend in the collecting world. I do think a lot of the old timers with all raw cards do have some condition issues they don't know about. Probably isn't any big deal to them either....it isn't to me. regards

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

I do not care for slabbing and grading. And I feel that folks that blindly look at those little labels in the plastic miss an opportunity to learn about cards and baseball history. And I do much to frequently fuss about folks that focus on grading, reports, registry, and the like. I'm guilty of all of that.

I didn't make any negative comments personally directed at you, Al. Can you say that?

Frank.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Nope.

-Al

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Posted By: James Feagin

Grown men speaking of caressing baseball cards is a bit creepy For the record, I think Al's posts are spot on. A true collector.

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Posted By: Paul Stratton

Almost everything I buy lately has been graded. I crack the PSA's and keep the SGC's holdered. They just look too good to crack. Most of my collection is raw though.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

If you need to rely on third party verification of authenticity: join the crowd. However, you can still learn about dot patterns without cracking the cards out.

But you can not appreciate the differences between the thickness, texture and other characteristics of a card unless you hold it.

So if you need the slab crutch, you certainly are not alone. But if you want to advance in your knowledge and appreciation of the cards - why isolate yourself from them?

If you are uncertain about grades, however, keep them slabbed until that uncertainty goes away. But do not dismiss the enjoyment of a raw card, without recognizing what you opt to isolate yourself from. i.e. once you have handled several 1914 + 1915 CJs, you know the differences. At that point leave 'em slabbed if you care about the further damage you will do to them. Well, this is my recommendation.

No spotted owls, inebreated finches nor other wildlife has been harmed in the generation of this post.

This is Gilbert Maines, and I approve this message.