Is grading getting to expensive?

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Posted By: joe

Is it getting to expensive?


This is SGC ad for oversized cards. Just wondering what others think? Seems to me a lot of the oversized cards, ex: T3 Baseball would fall into the $50 catagory. $50 is the price we used to pay for on-site grading at shows.

SGC prices.
Oversized cards valued at $100 or less: $15 per card
Oversized cards valued between $100-$5000: $50 per card (ALL T3 Turkey Reds, E121 American Caramel Die Cuts, W500s, W512s, and 19th Century cards must be submitted at this level or higher. Price for 10 cards or more: $40/card)
Oversized cards valued over $5000: $100 per card


Joe


Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Posted By: barrysloate

Consider how much more a card is worth after it's graded, and it is a bargain.

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Posted By: steve f

Yea, prices aren't cheap (for anything)any longer. I try to submit several at a time to keep costs down.

A few months back, I'd paid PSA $50. for a T3 slab, it kinda hurt. SGC is on par at least, and it's a good looking product.

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Posted By: Steve Dawson

Those prices are the same as PSA's prices. PSA though, as far as I know, hasn't announced any "quantity discounts".


Steve

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Posted By: bill

your forgetting the mailing costs ahipping
and insurance.....

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Posted By: Jason

under no circumstances, should the cost to grade a card be related to its value...a card is a card is a card if all you are looking at is its condition and authenticity...
it's as if the grading company doesn't need to be careful with the less valuable card....shouldn't every card be graded and cared for equally....???
chaps my bottom!

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Posted By: Anonymous

Jason,
It may be that they are subsidizing the costs of expertizing and encapsulating lower priced cards by charging a higher price on the higher priced cards.

Even with a subsidy, I just don't see how having lower priced cards graded is profitable for the seller. Paying $50 or even $40 to sell a card for $100? Why not just sell the card for $60 and avoid the shipping costs and time involved in grading?

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

I think the price jump from $15 to $50 is a bit much. They should probably tier the pricing a little better than that. How many T3s or W600s are going to be valued at $100 or less?

It would be nice to see SGC take a step back and stop trying to be like PSA and, rather, be more like themselves. I've always felt that SGC is a company that is respected by a sector of the collecting community because they are innovators and don't follow the status quo. I have a feeling that SGC will probably correct this illogical jump in pricing and make things more collector friendly.

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Posted By: Anonymous

50 bucks to slab an e121 american caramel die-cut ?

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Posted By: James Feagin

Exactly, SGC doesn't need PSA to establish itself. Get rid of the "SGC grade on top of what it would grade at PSA" numerical and definitely get rid of this illogical pricing.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

I vote - keep the price, but make the holders UV resistant like PRO does. And make then air tight too.

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Posted By: leon

For what you pay you get a pretty good ROI in many/most cases. The reason higher valued cards cost more to grade is due to the liability and the increased value (mainly) of the card being graded. The graders will take a little more time too, which costs money, on those higher valued cards. When you buy insurance a higher amount costs more...no different here. In the end they charge more because they can.... regards

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Posted By: Joe D.

a sliding scale price based on the value of the item.

It is the same work by the grader / and the same materials cost to slab it.

Why charge more for a more expensive card?

Its just a way to squeeze the customer IMHO.

The same is done by the autograph authenticators.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

I think that SGC should follow their standard size card price value grading tiers. It shouldn't jump from $100 at one tier to over $5K for the next tier, that's just plain ludicrous. It rings of PRICE GOUGING. Just because PSA likes to be STOOPID in their logic doesn't mean that they have to be the same way. Again, I think SGC will see the light because they are a more customer oriented and friendly company than PSA, my opinion.

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Posted By: Jim Clarke

Wow.. I did not realize that grading fees were that high. Glad I do not sell cards for a living relying on grading companies. But then again, Barry made a good point that it might be worth it. It would still be hard to shell out that kind of money to slab a card. I think the only way to do that is to get everything done in bulk at one-time and cut your best deal. Keep it simple.. Anything pre-war goes to SGC and everything else goes to PSA..

JC

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Posted By: Cobby33

How about a sliding scale? I like to get cards that are worth <$100 graded, but I spend 20% of that on grading. Doesn't make sense. Don't know how dealers who deal in cards $5-10 on eBay (GRADED) don't go out of business???

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Posted By: Josh K.

Cobby - are there really that many cabinet cards worth under $100? I dont proclaim to be an expert, but I sure dont recall seeing too many. There is a sliding scale for regular sized cards.

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Posted By: Cobby33

Hi Josh-
There was nothing about Cabinet cards in my post- perhaps I responded to the wrong post.
And you're right, I see SGC has a "sliding scale," not sure PSA/GAI have the same policy.

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Posted By: Josh K.

hey cobby, no problem. I think most of the complaints in this post were referring to the $50 fee to get oversize cards (T3s) graded by SGC and PSA. just assumed that is what you were responding to.

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Posted By: JimB

James,
I agree with you. I would prefer it if SGC just printed the 1-10 sale that is more the standard in the hobby. Of course we all know how SGC's 100 point scale correlates, but it would just be simpler in my opinion to list the grade and a 1-10 number. I like the half grades that they and GAI sometimes use.
JimB

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

My previous posts in this thread regarding the sliding scale were all in regard to the oversize holders. The following is the price line for SGC oversized holders:

• Oversized cards valued at $100 or less: $15 per card
  
• Oversized cards valued between $100-$5000: $50 per card (ALL T3 Turkey Reds, E121 American Caramel Die Cuts, W500s, W512s, and 19th Century cards must be submitted at this level or higher. Price for 10 cards or more: $40/card)
  
• Oversized cards valued over $5000: $100 per card
  

The regulare size holder fees are as follows and they don't seem too out of line:

• Immediate $100 2 Hours Any card valued over $7,500
  
• Walk Through $50 Same Day Any card valued $7,500 or less
  
• Next Day $25 48 Hours Any card valued $2,500 or less
  
• Grand Slam $15 5 Business Days Any card valued $1,000 or less
  
• Express $10 10 Business Days Any card valued $500 or less (Minimum service for cards requiring custom Inserts)
  
• Pre-1948 $8 100 or more $7 per card 15 Business Days Any card pre-1948 valued at $250 or less, 5-card minimum
  
• Post-1948 $7 100 or more $6 per card 20 Business Days Any card 1948 to present valued at $250 or less, 10-card minimum
  

I'm guessing that charging a minimum of about $50/card for encapsulation will reduce the number of people that would try to attempt to complete a registry of cards. Imagine, it would cost over $5K to have the T3 set encapsulated.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Did any of you take into account that there is a cost to making a new mold for these over sized holders? The oversized cards are a very small part of the market, those they need to charge more to cover the costs of production of the maolding plus everything that goes into grading. They are in business to make money, we all benefit from it by the increased prices on the final products, many times alot more than we we have invested into the grading and the card. I recent had $125 into a card, paid $15 to get it graded, it came back an 88, sold it for $3000. Without there grading business this would not be possible.

If you don't like the prices you don't have to pay them, I personally think it is too expensive for my tastes so I will not be getting too many of my T3's graded.

For all you complaining about the pricing would you be willing to give a grading company a share of YOUR profits if you got a higher than expected grade? I think not, so every time you think that they are charging to much think of the times you got a higher grade than expected and the extra money you made off the higher grade.

Lee

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

I'm with Lee on this.

I only have a couple of T3s and a Newsboy that will be graded under the more expensive service. But I've got a boatload of R303s that I'm happy to pay fifteen bucks a pop to have protected, along with some more modern, 1960s stuff that previously could never be slabbed.

I know these molds are expensive, and the slabs are considerably more expensive than the standard-sized ones.

-Al

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Posted By: warshawlaw

As noted, how many $100 cards are there in cabinet form? I suspect that PSA set the tier so low to discourage submissions at the $15 price and SGC is following suit.

Personally, if I was SGC, I'd set the lower tier at $250, undercut PSA by $10 a card on the higher value cards, and rake in the submissions. Then raise rates later when the market presence is established.

I don't think I'll be submitting anything for the new slabs.

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Posted By: leon

Most of the guys over there read this board daily. They listen but do move a little slowly sometimes. I think their strategy is to be better than PSA and a little less cost. Not a bad strategy. Has anyone seen a mid sized Kia car lately that looks almost exactly like an Accord? There's a reason....

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Posted By: Steve M.

is what you show the value to be on your submission form. It is then used for insurance purposes when the card is returned to you. I don't think SGC, or any grading company for that matter, is in the business of determining "value". So if you want to submit a $1,000 card and value it at $100 it will be graded under that fee tier. You of course will run the risk that it will be under-insured when returned.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I just sent two T3's in about an hour ago- I'll be the first on my block to see these new holders. Keep in mind that the higher fees also get you back the card more quickly. If you have a deadline of some kind that is a very useful option.

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Posted By: Josh K.

Steve - you are generally correct. However, with the oversized slabs, all T3s and 19th century cards have to be graded at least at the $50 price level. So you cant value a 19th century cabinet at $100 and only pay $15.

Barry - unfortunately, with the oversized holders, SGC does not get your card back faster with a higher priced service. I believe its a 20 day wait on all oversized slabs.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Josh- you are right about the oversizes, but I sent them a note and pleaded with them to speed it up a bit as I have a deadline. SGC customer service is excellent, so I hope they are able to do it. Can't figure out why both major grading services can turn around regular cards in two hours for the appropriate fee but for a somewhat larger holder a month is the best they can do.

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Posted By: joe

I thought I would get quite a few responses to my original post and I did.

Barry, you are right on getting more money for the card that is graded.

Fred, thanks for posting the regular prices on grading along with the large oversized card grading tier. I have no problem with SGC and their prices on the (normal) regular size cards. I just thought the oversize prices were a little high.

And the point about costs in developing a new holder does make some sense, sort of like the pharmacy companies when developing a new drug, costs are high. I just think they won't be getting as many submissions on these larger cards at the price.

A final thought, I might have to back off a little on the complaint on the cost, the scan shows how my T3's are professionally framed and matted with archival glass and I know the cost was a little over a $100.00 for getting 2 framed together. Some glaring from the camera, sorry. These were done before grading began. One mistake I made was not having glass on the back also, so you could see the different backs. I have no idea what backs are on the 8 cards that are framed. Duh!

I do think if they want a lot of action with these submissions, the price should drop a little.

Joe



Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Posted By: jim

Hi Joe, very nice matting/framing of your cabinets. Glad to see not all cards are bought and buried.

I know SGC has the highest standards, but I can't help but wonder when grading T3 and other cabinets, whether a little pinhole or back nick will kill the tech grade. This would tend to drive submitters to PSA for the larger pieces so the submitter can get a better grade and more money. If looking to sell, where will you go - PSA or SGC? And in the long run, aren't most pieces eventually sold, by you or your heirs?

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Posted By: Steve M.

that corner on the Cobb will only get you an SGC 10 tops.

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Posted By: martindl

Decisions, decisions.

I've got about 50 T3's that I've wanted to get slabbed. PSA were $25 per coming out of the gate but I thought their initial grading standards for this issue were too stringent. I opted to wait to see if they changed their standards and they did - they also upped their pricing to $50 per. Cards that were initially getting 3's are now getting 5-6's. Most of mine are 5's, 6's and a couple of 7's. From a resale perspective its still very much worth my while to pay $50, especially if I can get a bulk deal.

Now with SGC grading T3's, I want to take the same wait-and-see approach, though with their history re. vintage its doubtful that we'll see the same type of jump in grade that happened with PSA.

I think i'll wait a little longer and hope the price doesn't jump again.

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Posted By: jay wolt

"PSA were $25 per coming out of the gate"

MARTIN - PSA started T3/T9 grading at $35 at its inception,
then boosted it to $50 a few months ago.
Apparently SGC followed suit.
PSA will offer discounts to that price for quantity submissions
and I'm sure that SGC will do likewise.
Contact Joe at PSA or Sean or Dave at SGC w/ your bulk request
and see what they can do...jay

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Posted By: Mark

The question of which company has higher standards is a bit unclear regarding Turkey Red cards. It does seem there are a lot of overgraded T3 cards out there, suggesting that PSA may indeed have lowered there standards. However, one area where submitters might want to take another look is cards with pinholes, which is very common with T3.

PSA policy is to not give any card a grade higher than 1 if the card has a pinhole. It doesn't matter how nice the card is otherwise. I recently acquired an absolutely beautiful Jordan and Herzog card. If not for the extremely tiny pinhole hidden in the top border, I am certain it would have graded at least a 5, very possibly even a 6. However, because of the pinhole, it was graded PSA 1.

If you read the SGC grading standards, it is possible for a card to have one or more pinholes and still receive a grade of SGC 30. So, if you have Turkey Reds with pinholes, as so many of them do, it would might be better to submit to SGC than PSA.

Having written that, I should also note that I called The people at SGC recently to get clarification on this. The person I spoke with, I don't know his name, did confirm a grade of 20 was possible if the card was otherwise very clean. However, he was less willing to commit the possibility of a grade of 30. Anyone submitting T3 cards with pinholes might want to clarify the grading standards beforehand.

This issue is important to me because, along with T206, the main focus of my collection is Turkey Reds. About 35 of the cards in my set have one or more pinholes. I've been waiting for pricing info from SGC before deciding which company, if any, I go with. Now I'm not sure what to do. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Getting back to the original intent of the thread, I may choose to forego grading altogether because of the high cost. $4,000 is a lot of money for a bunch of plastic. I could sure buy a lot of very nice cards with that!

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Posted By: Bob Donaldson

"$4,000 is a lot of money for a bunch of plastic. I could sure buy a lot of very nice cards with that!"

I think that pretty much sums it up

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Posted By: barrysloate

SGC has a $50 tier for T3's valued under $5000, so if you have 35 you are looking at closer to $1750 or slightly higher. Still decent change, but it does add at least that much value to them.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Their price for 10 or more T3s is $40 each, which would be $1,400 for 35. They also state that you can call for special pricing on bulk orders.

If I had 35 T3s, I wouldn't think twice about spending the money to get them graded, regardless of condition. The holder is the best way to protect them from future damage.

Just my opinion.

I have about 40 R303s that I'll be getting graded for the same reason. Super lightweight cards, easily damaged. Worth $15 each to slab, in my opinion.

-Al

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Posted By: joe

Mark, I would make sure about the grading with pinhole with SGC. I have some postcards that have pinholes at the top. I emailed SGC to ask how the pinhole would affect the grading. The answer I received was that the highest grade with a pinhole would be a 10.

Joe

Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Posted By: Mark

Actually, the $4,000 would be to do my entire set. I have 12 PSA graded, and the rest are raw. If I decide to do it, a big if by the way, I will go to great lengths to clarify the pinhole issue. They need to either honor their grading scale, or change it!

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Posted By: warshawlaw

that is a correct analysis of the grade and is entirely consistent with what I've seen from every service except GAI. My last submission to SGC with a tack hole got a 1.

As far as cost to grade goes, I would not bother with anything I intend to keep but would definitely slab cards for sale if they stand a chance at more than a 1.

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Posted By: jim

In regards solely to re-selling a piece, would it be better to request an AUTH designation on a nice looking and expensive T3 that has a tiny pinhole or go with the SGC 10 Poor designation? One of the "problems" I can see with the AUTH, is when a potential buyer wonders why it got AUTH. Is there one problem or several? Which would bring more money, an SGC AUTH or an SGC 10? For more expensive, rarer and less available cards, I think buyers will pay more money to just get the piece; comforted to know it is slabbed/real and grade be damned. I know this most likely won't fly, but what about SGC using a PH qualifier and grading the card higher if it is truly clean or is that too PSA-ish? Many more things to think about.

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Posted By: martindl

Jay,
Thanks for the info re. who to contact. You had sent that to me before but i've yet to act. Re. $25 coming out of the gate - I thought that was their std charge but i'll stand corrected. I did have a couple of coupons for $25 which must have been a promotion.

Mark,
I'm not sure that PSA lowered their standards versus them correcting their standards. The result was the same so its just semantics I guess. I don't have any cards with pinholes, but like you i'm going to wait and see.