Frank Nagy Collection....

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Posted By: Mark Turner

I know very little about the Nagy collection, i am looking to find out more. I know he had a t206 wagner and a bunch of other cards. I guess he had SGC grade them and put his name on the slab.

1st question--does it make the card more valuable that its from the nagy collection?

2nd question--is there a web site that profiles his collection?

3rd question--if i crossover a sgc nagy card to psa will they keep the nagy collection name on it?


p.s. i just purchased a beautiful card from his collection thats why i am asking, thanks in advance.

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Posted By: jay behrens

SOme people might pay a bit extra for the Nagy label, but most won't. You'd have to ask PSA if they would carry over the NAgy label. If they are willing to label cards "Mr X" I don't know why they wouldn't carry over the Nagy name other pofessionally snubbery. Personally, I wouldn't cross a Nagy card to PSA. It's neat to have a card with a significant provenance. How many of use wouldn't love to have a card from the Burdick, Tiger-Wharton or Barker collection, to name a few?

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I think over time as more major collections reach the market and more labels identify where the cards came from, there is the chance that this will dilute the importance of the provenance. It is a fairly recent phenomenon but will probably be more prevalent in the coming years.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Then there will be the purist that buys a Nagy (or whomever's name happens to be on the flip) card because they want a card from that particular collection, only to free it from it's plastic tomb. Ok, maybe not...

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Posted By: barrysloate

Mark asked the question would PSA put the Nagy name on the label if you crossed it over and my guess is they would but only if you requested it. Can't imagine why they would have an objection.

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Posted By: JimB

To answer your question about a website, I don't think there was one. You may want to check the Mastro website. THey auctioned everything with that label and they may have the old auction up. Or call and ask if they still have the auction catalog.

For a point of clarification, Nagy did not get his cards graded and labeled with his name. He has been dead for several years. His family consigned the remainder of his collection to Mastro and they had the provenance put on the slab labels.

I personally think it is cool and own a few of them.
JimB

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Posted By: jay wolt

"I guess he had SGC grade them and put his name on the slab."

I was under the impression that Mastro had his collection graded out
after he died to remarket them more effectively.
Nagy was an old time collector who probably didn't like slabs
and his large collection would triple in size & weight if every card was slabbed. After all 1 binder can hold several "E" sets, but once slabbed
you will need several boxes to store them.

Based on the Mastro auction of the Nagy Collection early this year, all 3 grading
companies were utilized. The T206 Wagner resided in a GAI slab (It has now
been slabbed via SGC at a 1/2 grade lower)The remaining cards were PSA & SGC.
Not sure if the cards were shopped around for better grades or what the criteria that PSA graded this set and SGC graded that set.

I picked this up a few months ago, figuring it would be neat to own a
card that a legendary collector owned. Frank Nagy could have purchased this from a pack as a kid in '33.
I won it for $57 dlvd in June, I think I bid $75.
So no extra value was added in this auction for the Nagy pedigree...jay

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Posted By: Rick

I would pay more for a T3 from the JAY WOLF collection.

Actually pedigres are pretty common in coins and do in fact add some premium.

I would like to see more of this sort of thing in the future.

Unique or very desirable cards should have aname attached to them why not.

A prime example would have been the Recious Wagner ...probably a 1/1 and Hal Lewis did an amazing job of dating the card.

maybe even a couple of the best cards from julie or even the card that jay B found ...was it an e93?

If i ever found a rare card like a 1911 Cobb punch or something of that magnitute i would have my name on it.

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Posted By: John

I have mixed feelings on this subject. While it’s interesting to know the provenance of an item and the collection it came from.

I have to ask where do you draw the line at labeling provenance on slabs? What type or size and or quality of a collection, deserves this mark?

While I have an ok collection, IMO I don’t think any of my cards or items deserve a provenance label. Some of these collectors mentioned above by Jay were hobby pioneers.

Myself I am just a collector, I have done little for the hobby short of, find cards, put money in and take cards out. Sure I have educated people here and there, shared info with other collectors etc. but I don’t think that’s anything special and deserving of a private labeled collection.

And then where does it stop? I just bought a Nagy card from a board member not because it was a Nagy card, but I bought it. This collector has a nice collection do we add his name to the flip and then mine when I sell it? If were not careful cards in the future could come with family tree type paperwork, included in a file.

I also don’t think because someone finds a rare card or item they deserve a nametag slab either. IMO

Unless that find is of major hobby importance or an exceptionally large quantity of cards.

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Posted By: Cobby33

I don't think PSA would pedigree. I have a PSA pedigree'd card (not Mr. X) that I was looking to re-holder, since the # doesn't appear on their online registry (they did confirm its authenticity). They said if I were to have it re-holdered (with a new serial #), they wouldn't pedigree it.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Good provenance will never lower the value.

My opinion is that most card collectors will pay more for a card with good ownership, even if just a little bit more. If two cards are practically identical, most collectors will chose the one that once belonged to Rob Lifson over the one that had unknown past owner. Even if the collectors think provenance is no big deal, I don't see how they would chose the unknown past owner card at the same price. Unless you flipped a coin to decide, that you chose the Lifson card says you value it at least a little bit more.

Obviously in other areas of memorabilia, provenance takes on greater significance. That a Willie Mays game used glove was owned by the 1950s Giants bat boy or a retired Giants executive is significant. I owned an actress' jewelry that was owned by the chairman of her studio and producr of two of her movies. That the jewelry came with a letter from the producer both helped establish authenticity and gave a boost in value, as the producer himself was famous. I wouldn't have purchased the jewelry if its provenance was unknown past owner ... Of course, with a Hall of Famer's game used glove or actress' jewelry, provenance is much to most of its financial value. That glove won't be worth $15,000 for much longer when its discovered that it wasn't owned by Willie Mays.

It should also be noted that, if you consider current owner/seller as provenance, almost every board member will pay significantly more or less based on provenance. If you pay extra for a rare raw card because it's being sold by Lew Lipset, you are paying more because of the provenance (Lipset as owner/seller). If you have a bookmark of favorite eBay sellers and an unwritten list of eBay sellers to avoid, this demonstrates how much you value provenance as a buyer of baseball cards.

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Posted By: Matt E.

Reading the article really makes you realize how innocent the hobby used to be. One can only imagine the excitement he must have felt when he purchased the cards listed in the article. Keep in mind it was 1959.
How many of us could or would do that today.

http://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_51.html

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Posted By: Ricky Y

It's nice to have Frank's name associated with it simply because of the man and his contribution to the hobby. But aside from that its no different than any other card. So I wouldn't necessarily pay a premium for it. I believe he had a huge collection but not complete nor necessarily in top condition. Now something as famous as the T206 Wagner I can see that having a Nagy label would be really nice to have.

The Eliasberg coin collection carries a premium but that was a special collection because at the time it was known as the only complete collection of US coins at the time.

Edgar Church Mile High Comic pedigree is another example of something that carries a premium not because of the name but due to the immaculate condition of the comic collection itself.

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Posted By: leon

I was lucky enough to get Walt Corson's personal checklists. He had some great stuff....and I am sure his collection added to Mr.Nagys made for one of the best in the hobby..here is a 3x5 of his checklisted T206's...I think I have shown it before but it's kind of neat.......notice on T204's he had Burkett, Johnson, and Plank among others......not bad...

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Posted By: Betty

Leon your post is very interesting. I have 2 T207's from the Nagy Collection, I didn't purchase them because they were from the "Nagy Collection" as much as they were cards I needed in my quest to assemble this difficult set. The one card, George Kaler is not on the list you posted, so I guess he obtained it elsewhere, but the Louis Loudermilk is on the list, so, I wonder if this is the Loudermilk he obtained when he purchased Walt Corson's collection.

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

I think it's a nice touch if it's from a collection that by consensus is truly historical, but I agree with Wonkaticket (I can't believe I just uttered those words ) that unless really confined to a very small group of collections it would quickly start to look ridiculous to pedigree cards.

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Posted By: joe

Leon, I think this has been brought up before, is there anyone who has a Hustler back on a T206? I saw it on the checklist you posted.
Joe

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Posted By: leon

There are cigarette cards with Hustler on the back but not any baseball ones, known. I am petitioning on getting this 3x5 to be where the rumor started about them ever being on a T206 back..This 3x5 card is probably from about 1955-1960...I think Mr.Corson passed away around 1961.....

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Posted By: Bob

Leon- I have a couple of checklists in my handwriting that I'll let go for $10 for your list collection
I wonder if SGC will slab and label any Obaks with Buck Barker's scrawling on the back? I have some, might be worth an email...
tbob

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Posted By: John

Interesting item on the checklist Leon, Very cool! That could be where this whole rumor of the Hustler backed T206 came. So unless Mr.Cobb or Mr. Edwards finds one for $1500 bucks at a yard sale.

We will just have to get our Hustler fix with issues like T59’s.



Peter I won’t tell anyone you agreed with me, it will be out little secret. You can always tell people you were under the influence, due to a long night on the town with Mel Gibson.

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Posted By: TONY

In the coin collecting field, big name colletions do add value to a coin especially when it's 1st offered usually at a major auction.....In comic book collecting today "pedigree" collections such as a "Mile High" comic book bring huge premiums like 2 or 3 times retail....depending on title etc......I see samll premiums for cards, but never expect to see big premiums being paid for cards except for a few rare exceptions

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Posted By: Derick

I know my father and sister have posted in here before, but I too am of relation to Frank Nagy. He was my grandfather. I love stopping in here from time to time to read the posts you folks contribute about his collection. Although he died in 1993 when I was only 7, I still have extremly fond memories of the man that I will cherish forever. I just wanted to share with you that the idea to have the "Frank Nagy Collection" printed on the cards was entirely Mr. Mastro's. We were very plesantly surprised to hear the news. It insured that his name would live on more so than if his name wasn't literally attatched. Thank you all again for the kind remarks on my grandfather. Reading all this is a great way for myself and my family to be reminded of what a great person he really was.

Derick Smith

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

I picked up two Nagy cards. I picked them up because I needed the cards for the set I'm putting together. It's a neat bonus but I didn't go after the cards because of the provenance label. The cards were priced normal for the grade so it's not like I ended up paying a premium for them. Personally, I think it's kind of neat to have the label but I wouldn't pay much more for it. I do feel, however, that I can see how a provenance label might appeal to some people. I wouldn't mind having an encapsulated card with a John Cummings provenance label on it.

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Posted By: Josh K.

though I didnt and wouldnt pay extra for the label, I think its kind of a cool thing to have.

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Posted By: JimB

I personally think the lineage of hobby pioneers like this is cool. I must say that as much as I like SGC, I think they are harsh on chips. This card is nm if not for the chip on the left border. I can't help but think that if it were on a corner they would not have given it a 70 or 80.

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Posted By: JimB

I think border chipping is a lot more offensive on issues like T205 and T210, but they seem to get more slack. Chipping on a white border is relatively less offensive.
JimB

Maybe this is a topic for a different thread.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Jim,

That E94 Young is a perfect example of what I would consider a great card in a "50" holder. I could care less about the border chipping because that card presents itself so nice. Not to hijack the thread but Frank Nagy (and now you) picked himself a nice card there.