Type Cards "Big Six"

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Posted By: bruce Dorskind

It appears that the number of "type card" collectors is increasaing
at an accelerating rare.

While it is difficult and often quite expensive to collect pre World War II
sets in high grades (i.e. 7, 8 or 9), collecting type cards
in high grades is still achievable.

I have a two part question for the Board Members.


1) What are the three most difficult baseball card (not postcard, exhibit, match
book and test issue) to obtain?


2) What are the most difficult 20th century regular issue type cards to
obtain in 7, 8. 9?

Whilst one could simply go to the population report and find that only
one E 107 is graded 8 and that virtuall no Boston Garters and E-125's
have been graded, I a more interested in your experience with delars
auctions and grading services (let's limit to PSA and SGC) over the past 3 years.

My experience

Difficult type cards to obtain (even in nice condition) T 208, Darby Chocolate Box, 1912 Boston Garter

Difficult to find in a really top grade Victory Tobacco, Geoerge Miller (7-9) and E 106


Thanks for your time


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List
bdorskind@dorskindgroup.com

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Posted By: Jay

1886 Hancock Clothing--Three known, all unique, all SGC60

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Posted By: leon

Thanks Bruce, great topic....and for all of you negativity folks if you start it in this thread you will get your post deleted and a "corner time out".


1) What are the three most difficult baseball card (not postcard, exhibit, match
book and test issue) to obtain?

1.T231
2.H812- untrimmed (2 known)
3.E222 AWA caramel

all with ACC numbers....I think there are too many uncat cards to list but I like Jay's choice above too...




2) What are the most difficult 20th century regular issue type cards to
obtain in 7, 8. 9?

I don't really collect high grade so will skip this question....

regards
type-card-collector

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Posted By: david

i think the t215 pirate backs should be included. think i have only seen 2 offered in the last ten years. in that time i have seen numerous just so's, four base hits and n167's listed.

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Posted By: jay behrens

no access to pop reports. Just going from experience, but e104-3s and e105s are tough in high grade. I'd say that from the recent Virginia Extra thread, that there cannot be many high examples of those cards.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: J Levine

Well, Post WW2 in really high grade, it is nearly impossible to find a Felin's Franks or Father and Son Shoes. Lummis Peanut Butter as well. In fact, most of the issues packed with foods are very difficult to find in high grade. The baking label cards come to mind (Fischer and Bread for Energy) and are nearly always found in lower grades just due to packaging. Many of the tougher hot dog issues (Morrell Meats, etc.) get graded down because of grease stains and packaging concerns.

My two cents.

Joshua

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Posted By: dstudeba

leon - how many AWA examples are there? The only ones I have seen (except for yours) are the AWH examples.

As for 50s meat issues, I have never heard/seen anything to make me believe that Felins were released, so all of them are in relatively nice grade. As for other issues, Mastro over the years has sold high grade examples of Stahl Meyers, Glendales, and Wilson Franks. Whether these were from presentation sets and (heaven forbid sheet cut) or actual meat packages is debatable. I don't know about the Morrells, but I would look at tougher issues like Old Homestead or Hunters which aren't Felins tough, but not easy.

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Posted By: Bob

Don't forget high grade E98 Old Puts and E94 overprinted backs.

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Posted By: Jay

High grade T210s and T211s are virtually impossible to find

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Posted By: leon

I only know of 1 AWA caramel, as well as anyone I have ever spoken with, has only seen it. I only know of 2 of the H812's (out of about 9 totally known) that are untrimmed and I heard of another T231 at the National but have not seen it....so there is 1 for sure, 1 xerox of one for sure, and potentially another one known....making those 3 series very rare.

As for high grade examples of other pre-war cards I think there are quite a few that are almost non-existent. I would think the T216 series with the paper stock would be tough in high grade. I have seen at least 1 E94 overprint in an SGC84 holder, otherwise they aren't usually found in high grade. As Jay pointed out there are other series that way too. regards

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Posted By: bdorskind

In 1981 at one of the Phill shows, I purcashed three AWH
Caramels for 75 dollars each. Several years, I gave two of
the cards to Rob Lifson who sold one each in his 2004 and 2005
auctions.

Legendary collector Dennis Goldstein (collection sold through
Lelands) in the late 80's had several AWH Caramels.

My guess is that there are about 20 known cards in this set
and a total of 35 cards.

Bruce

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Posted By: John

Here’s my input….

Question 1:

§T231
§E222 AWA
§T215 (Pirate)

Hancock would have to be up there too, not to mention all the other UNC oddballs floating around.

Question 2:

§T210
§T211
§T217
§E107
§T4’s
§E100
§T209
§D311

I have never seen any of these cards floating in PSA 7,8,9 holders. Might have seen a few T210’s but that’s about it.

I would also think that really high grade PSA 7’s, 8’s & 9’s T206 Polar Bear backed cards would be tough.

This is as close as I get to high grade on any of the above listed specimens and way off from the 8 and 9 neighborhoods.

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Posted By: leon

as if we haven't seen it enough..... I know it's almost as bad as the red headed step children E91's (sorry redheads it's just a saying)...but to my knowledge this is the highest graded Buchner.....Kind of weird I won it in a collectors universe auction in an old SGC holder and got it crossed to a new one....

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Posted By: Bob

The D311s will never pop up in high grade because the very few blazers which exist are in the collections of guys like Mark Macrae who are not thrilled with slabbing. The Peckinpaugh on ebay recently was a very rare exception, I think it was a 50 or 60.

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Posted By: John

Interesting Bob, so even though not high-grade my example is better than the norm? You know your not making it any easier to pry this one away Bob!

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Posted By: John

http://cgi.ebay.com/PECKINPAUGH-Yankees-Naps-Pacific-Biscuit_W0QQitemZ280018144090QQihZ018QQcategoryZ10 6178QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Wow,sorry I missed this.

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Posted By: Millerhouse

Bob,

The fact is that D311 blazers do exist. (Find me a near mint Coupon T213-1, and I'll gladly trade you one.) The mere fact that they've been hoarded doesn't make them more rare. I don't think that was the point of Bruce's initial inquiry. And as for a condition rarity, I'll nominate T213-1 as the winner. They were printed on absolutely crappy paper, and in years of looking (and despite the fact that they're generally not exceptionally difficult to find), I've never found one in better than a loosely graded ex.

Dan

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Posted By: jay behrens

post war sets, Cloverleaf Dairy cards are almost non existant in high grade. I got Gavin Riely's set when he sold off his collection. The set included all variations on full side panels and two complete dual side panels with schedules. One with a Cloverleaf Dairy panel and the other with an Apple Fresh Dairy panel. The later, most likely being unique. The set was perfect and there is no way you can convince me that there is a better set out there, if it is still in tact.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: B.C.D

"7,8's and 9's" or near mint and better cards?

the pop report will anser your question if graded is the factor.

got to imagine any super rare card in near mint is equally as rare in a grade of near mint or mint. these would be cards with known examples of 2 or maybe 5 or less.

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Posted By: Eric B

T231 Fan. Unless someone can update me, I believe there are only 2 known examples out of a set of around 60?

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Posted By: jay behrens

2 known examples, one which exists only as a xerox copy and has never been physically verified. Where did you come up with 60 cards in the set? I'd believe the cards have a checklist on the back.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: david

you could also add to the list red stocking cigars and the gypsy queen minor leaguer

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Posted By: Scot

E210-2

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Posted By: Cobby33

I think I'm only "qualified" to answer #1- though I think it would be a multi-way tie, if limited to 3, but here goes:

1. T214 Victory
2. T215 Pirate
3. D355 Niagara Baking

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

In my thinking: Subset rarity (such as minor leaguers, spotted ties, etc.), as well as condition rarity, back rarity, color rarity, and other areas of specialization are not necessary for inclusion in a type set.

If this is accepted, it follows that the initial premise of this thread may be considered as faulty:

It appears that the number of "type card" collectors is increasaing
at an accelerating rare.

While it is difficult and often quite expensive to collect pre World War II
sets in high grades (i.e. 7, 8 or 9), collecting type cards
in high grades is still achievable.

And the fault, as I perceive it, is that the inquiry overlooks the most significant factor in type card collecting in favor of one of comparitively trivial importance. Certainly, obtain the best examples which you can for your type card set, but do not pass up cards which are unique, or nearly so, simply because they do not exist in the grade which you prefer.

It may be possible to obtain specific individual cards which prevent others from achieving a complete e-card type set and a complete t-card type set, and a complete n-card type set. If you wish to consider upside potential, Bruce, I believe positioning yourself with these cards is a path with a greater liklihood of success than one which focuses on grabbing at difficult cards in high grade.

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Posted By: dd

Sport Company of America Spalding Babe Ruth with the 1927 Copyright,, I believe there are only 2 known.

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Posted By: Richard Lloyd

I thought I would show my FELIN'S FRANK card an say these are nearly impossible to find since they were never issued. Some other very hard cards to find in good condition are 1940 Hughes Confections because most have Ice cream stains while 1949 Schumacher Service Station cards are near impossible. I have several of them but they never appear on ebay.

In general I think Type card collecting has picked up because it is near impossible to find one card, an having a set is unrealistic..
Best
DIck

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Posted By: dstudeba

Dick -

Good to see you back (here at least, not on eBay), hope all is well. Thanks for the picture, I am still looking for one as I was a bit low on the last one that came up.

- Dan

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Posted By: Richard Lloyd

Thanks Dan.... I am around an starting to do more but another nice feature about types cards is the find below.. This is a 1954 Spic/Span SHEET iron on that is ONE-OF-KIND!! not many of these around an this is the thing about type cards of finding the near impossible..
Best
Dick

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Posted By: dstudeba

Watch out we are going to get banned talking about 50s cards! Very nice sheet, that reminds me of the Spic Span cover that was in the recent Mastro Auction. Are they really iron ons?

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Posted By: Richard Lloyd

Yes Dan they are... again, type card collecting offers unique potential for rare finds which makes collecting fun...
Best
Dick

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Posted By: Richard

One of my few "high grade" prewar cards:

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Those '54 Spic and Spans look a heck of a lot like the '51 Wheaties.

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Posted By: richard lloyd

actually...these 1954 spic/span iron ons are the same drawings as the 1954 spic/span cards that were issued...
Best
Dick

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Posted By: Ricky Y

1. E222

2. Ivy Andrews G Miller