19th Century Unused Ticket Stub – Questions . . .

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Posted By: Joe_G.

I was able to pick-up a nice item for my Detroit collection today that you don’t see everyday (from fellow collector/dealer). It’s a complete unused ticket stub for “Game 27” of the 1888 season at Detroit’s home, Recreation Park. I’ve attached a scan below showing both front & back together with an Old Judge to put the size into perspective (a hair under 2” x 4”). The condition is excellent with a minor crease. It’s amazing to me that over the last 118 years no one has torn the ticket in two along the inviting perforation, talk about self-control.



The writing (stamp) on back is light but reads as follows:

SEASON BOOK TICKET
NOT EXCHANGEABLE AND GOOD
FOR THIS DAY AND GAME ONLY

So it is apparent that this belonged to someone with a season pass book but failed to use the ticket. I suspect Grand Stand B, seat 98 was perhaps near home plate, the home teams bench, or perhaps an early suite (a good seat).

My questions come about when trying to determine which game this ticket was issued for. After talking to a couple people, the most popular theory seems to be the 27th game played at home which is different that the 27th scheduled home game. The 27th scheduled home game would have been June 27th against Chicago (Detroit won 10-4). However, because 4 home games were canceled/postponed (likely due to weather), the 27th actual played home game wasn’t until July 5th against NY (Detroit won 18-13). The fact that the ticket doesn’t list a date or team further supports the fact that they issued and collected tickets based on actual played games vs scheduled games (I think).

However, to further complicate matters, Detroit played a double header with NY on July 4th which likely required one ticket to attend (my assumption). Was that ticket stamped with game 25 & 26? Then, going back to the canceled or postponed games, did one or more of the games actually begin with tickets accepted at the gates only to be rained out before the game became official? In this case, I bet the next home game would be the next number so as to not exclude the season ticket holders. All these possibilities could point to different games and I realize a little more research will be required to better define the “27th game”. The Detroit Free Press & Detroit News are two excellent sources that may help shed some light (the Detroit Public Library has both papers on microfiche). In the interim, I thought I’d ask the board in case someone has already completed similar research on a similar 19th century ticket(s).

Side Note: While Detroit failed to repeat their 1887 Championship in 1888, they did play very competitive ball for the first half of the season. During the dates suggested for this ticket, Detroit was no more than 2 games back of the League leading Chicago team. But shortly after, several events including Sam Thompson being pulled from the line-up due to a throwing arm injury and Hardy Richdson breaking his ankle sent them on a downward spiral including a 16 game losing streak to barely finish above 0.500. And that would be the end of professional baseball in Detroit until the Tigers started up with the American League in 1901.

I realize the detail of the question may not garner many responses, but feel free to comment at any level. I would love to hear from anyone else that has a 19th century ticket stub to share. I don’t recall seeing any over the last couple years, but then again, I can’t say I was looking.

Best Regards,
Joe Gonsowski

<per request, edited to re-insert image>

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Posted By: Trevor Hocking

WOW Joe that is very very COOL!!!!!!

That ticket really belongs in your amazing Detroit Collection. Congrats!!!

What a great 19th century Ticket!

Trevor Hocking

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Posted By: Joann

OK, just thinking off the top of my head.

I would think that all tickets for the season were mailed to season ticket holders before the first game, much as now. It seems to me that having Game 27 be "whichever is the 27th home game played" instead of "the 27th scheduled home game" would be asking for trouble. People would get confused, not realize that one was cancelled and therefore the rest of the season "off register" with the numbering, etc. It seems much more reasonable that the scheduled games were the numbered games, and then use maybe blanks or the numbered ticket for the rescheduled date for cancelled/postponed games.

But why wouldn't the ticket have the teams and the dates? I'll display my ignorance here, and say that maybe at that time schedules weren't known or published in time to get tickets printed? Maybe the printer had some schedule or cost structure or lead time that required that they be printed before final schedules were available? Maybe even just the slower mail service required that they print and mail way ahead of time. If they know they are playing X home games per year, they can print all tix for the season any time they want or need if they use numbers instead of dates.

I don't know if any of these conditions existed in 19th C, but with lesser communications than today I guess it's possible. Using the ticket for whichever is the actual (versus scheduled) sequenced game just seems like it would cause problems - and there the lesser communications could play a role too. It just seems too likely that too many people would accidentally bring the wrong ticket to a game. The 27th is the 27th, and the rest are handled by exception or substitution. Seems simpler to me.

But this is all just random thinking on my part - still have yet to contribute actual knowledge!

BTW, what a cool cool item. How could it have survived for this long? And ... lol ... I am still a little stuck on that nice OJ you evidently just had sitting around to use for photo scaling purposes. That would be the centerpiece of my collection. I have like, dollar bills, match books, business cards, etc, that I could use for photo scaling. Not perfect OJ's. Great card!

Joann

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Posted By: Joe_G.

Thanks Trevor & Joann, I am very happy with my latest acquisition. The Twitchell wasn't exactly just laying around, it will be off to SGC soon and added to my other Detroits

I follow everything you wrote Joann, thanks for the input. However, I still believe the tickets were for actual games played. As already noted, if they were for scheduled games, I believe the tickets would include date and team played. Other than the individuals who had season passes, I believe most tickets were purchased the day of the game, much like when you go to the movies. And for those with season pass books, the book itself was probably easily carried in a suit pocket so if the season pass holder was unsure of which ticket he/she would need, bring the whole book. But I have no proof, not yet anyways. Either way, I'm sure there were some confused fans from time to time.

If anyone has examples of other 19th Century tickets, post away. I'd love to see other examples to compare and contrast to. Thanks!

Best Regards,
Joe Gonsowski

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

I agree that the ticket is most likely for the 27th home game, which could have been unnecessary, because the way that the schedule worked out - it may have been the second game of a double header - which possibly would be covered by the ticket for the 26th game. You said that you'd accept input at any level; here is uninformed wild eyed speculation. Please let us know what your research reveals.

The condition of your 120 year old ticket is tremendous! What a nice compliment to your collection. I still remember that horse and buggy card. Please post it sometimes.

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Posted By: Keith O'Leary

I've never seen a 19th century full ticket. Super nice piece Joe, thanks for sharing it. Hopefully in the near future, you'll be able to share additional information about it as well.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

That is one beautiful ticket. An honor to just see it. Thank you for sharing it with us. Sincerely.

THAT piece of cardboard, your willingness to share it, those are the the things that make this board great.

Frank.

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Posted By: Joe_G.

I have more to share about the ticket in question after spending a little time in the Library and discussing possibilities with several people. While I failed to find absolute proof indicating which game my ticket belongs to, I did collect evidence that supports it being the July 5th campaign against the New York BBC. This was the 27th played home game of the 1888 season after 4 postponed matches and a double header played the day before. In coming to this conclusion, I first had to understand how postponed and double header games were handled w.r.t. tickets.

But first, I want to digress a bit and explain why I believe this ticket doesn’t include the ever helpful information of team played and date. I suspect season ticket holders likely received their tickets in a book before the season started with extra tickets to cover postponed & rescheduled games. Notice how the 1889 International League Detroit season pass book below still includes the extra tickets for games that were never played (courtesy of Bryan Dec – an attractive piece that could be yours for the right price). I speculate that by purchasing a season ticket pass book, you earned the right to attend all home games for the year regardless of how many partial / postponed / rescheduled games there might be. That is why the tickets do not include dates or opposing team information. The playing schedule back then was simply too fluid. The season ticket holder likely attended most games and knew which ticket was required for the next game. If in doubt, call the ticket office, bring a couple tickets, or better yet, bring the whole book to the game.



Conversely, I believe the non-season pass spectators that purchased their individual tickets shortly before the game may have purchased a ticket that looks different. Their ticket might have been both dated and include the opposing team’s information. Printing tickets separately between season ticket holders and those buying for individual games would also allow a ball club to easily address the issue of highly fluctuating attendance. Detroit would sell far more tickets to games versus more popular teams like Chicago and New York, especially after the sometimes cold early season games. Perhaps more time and research will shed more light on this.

Postponed Games
As already mentioned, there were 4 postponed home games leading up to the July 5th match for which I believe the ticket belongs. In all four cases, the games were postponed before their 4:00 scheduled start with no mention in either the Detroit Free Press or The Evening News (forerunner to the Detroit News) of allowing anyone to take their seats for these contests. In each case, it was apparent a game wouldn’t be played hours before the scheduled start. The 4 postponed games are as follows:

5/8/88 against Boston – Postponed due to rain, a very wet field (nonstop rain from previous night). In fact, all National League games were postponed May 8th due to rain except for NY at Indianapolis.
5/14/88 against Philadelphia – Postponed due to freezing temperatures. About 50 people showed up by 3:30 when Harry Wright & the Detroit delegation decided to call the game and make it up later in the season.
5/18/88 against Washington – Postponed due to rain, standing water on field as of 2:00 and game was called.
6/28/88 against Chicago – Postponed due to rain. Immediately scheduled a double header for July 18th to make-up the game however that double header never occurred.

Again, had Detroit decided to seat spectators and admit them into the park, perhaps even watch an inning or two before being called by rain, then the story would be different. In this case, the ticket would have been used and the next game would use the subsequent “game #” ticket.


Double Headers
Here is an example of a frequently run ad in the local newspapers promoting ticket purchase for upcoming home games. All ads reference the same ticket office on Woodward Avenue (~1.5 miles from Recreation Park, further away than I’d expect). This particular ad is for the July 4th double header.


(On a side note, notice the pointing finger, similar to the one found on my ticket)

There was only one double header played at home before July 5th. It was the July 4th double header against NY referenced above. Initially, I thought double headers were a great treat for the fans with one ticket allowing them to enjoy two games. How very wrong I was, double headers required two tickets if you were inclined to watch both games.

The first clue comes from the fact that most double headers were scheduled with an AM & PM start of 11:00 & 4:00. In 1888, the typical game lasted approximately 2 hours which means 3 hours of dead time between games. The second clue was from looking at attendance records which sometimes indicate very different attendance for both games as referenced below.

July 4th was (and still is) a big day for baseball with many double headers scheduled. Detroit wasn’t the only scheduled July 4th double header in 1888. Chicago hosted Philadelphia for a pair of games and enjoyed 8000 fans in the morning and, after winning, drew 12,000 for the afternoon affair which they lost. Other double headers for the day saw 1500 fans in the morning contest between Boston and Indy (in Indy) and 4,000 for the afternoon contest while Pittsburgh hosted Washington with 2500 in attendance for the morning game and 4600 for the afternoon.

Going back to Detroit, the city was hoping for a repeat of two years previous when Detroit beat NY’s Keefe & Welch on a glorious July 4th double header. A good crowd of 6000 showed up for the morning match-up only to watch their home team fail on offense and lose 1-4 to Keefe. The Detroit Free Press reports that a very similar size crowd of 6000 witnessed the second game only to see Smiling Mickey Welch hold the Wolverines to the same score. The papers reported that had the Wolverines won the morning event, a larger crowd would have likely found their way to Recreation Park for the afternoon affair. Note that 6000 spectators nearly filled all available seats at Recreation Park and meant spectators were forced to start filling in the standing room beyond the outfield ropes. The newspapers were very colorful with headlines reading “RAW BEEFSTEAK PLEASE. Place it Tenderly on Detroit’s Two Lovely Black Eyes.” and “Getzien and Gruber Pitch Superbly, But the Fielding and Batting are Frightful.” Others stories talked about the fan’s dismay over Ewing and his forceful ways behind the plate, making foul ball calls long before umpire Daniels would make them and forcefully asking what was wrong with called ball pitches. In the end, Keefe & Welch returned the favor Detroit handed them two years earlier.

All of this leads to the 27th played home game for which I believe the ticket belongs. After the poor July 4th double header performance only 800-900 fans made it to the July 5th game against the same NY club. And many of those came to see the long time Detroit Pitcher, Stump Weidman, return to Recreation Park for the first time since leaving Detroit. Weidman had been with Detroit from 1881-1885 and again for a time in 1887. The small crowd witnessed a great offensive attack by both teams with Detroit taking the win 18-13 after hitting Weidman for 10 runs in the 3rd alone. A great game I’d love to see if only I had a time machine & ticket in hand.

On a side note, the July 5th contest would be the last game Sam Thompson would play for Detroit due to soreness in his right arm that had been ailing him since April (preseason). Sam’s performance was on the decline (although he was still leading the team in some offensive categories) and couldn’t make the throw from RF to home plate. The best he could muster was a weak throw to 2nd base. To address the issue, Detroit signed Count Campau who took over for Thompson in RF. A sad day for Detroit; the fans regarded a healthy Thompson as the best right fielder in the world. Thankfully, Sam would return to greatness with Philadelphia after Detroit folded.

In closing, I would like to suggest a theory why 19th century ticket stubs are scarce. I’ll do so by showing what my ticket would look like as a used ticket, a ticket stub.



As you can see, the remaining stub is not very exciting with no mention of any team, date, or even sport. This stub likely would have been discarded long ago without the basic information that would allow the collector to associate it with the game of baseball. Don’t worry, I didn’t actually separate my ticket, the above was accomplished with photo editing:) Other clubs, years, non-season pass tickets, etc. might be different, but that is how my 1888 ticket would look.

I'll keep gathering evidence as it becomes available, but for now will consider my unused ticket as being for the July 5th contest. Comments, theories, anything & everything welcome.

Best Regards,
Joe Gonsowski

<per request, edited to re-insert images>

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Posted By: Joe_G.

Back to the top, I'm posting a link to this thread for a couple people and wanted it on the front page.

Also have some additional information. I was asked why there is a C. H. Smith signature on the ticket. Charles H. Smith was the president of the Detroit ball club in 1888, taking over for the far more flamboyant Frederick K. Stearns who owned Detroit during the "good year(s)". It was Frederick who was responsible for bringing the big 4 to Detroit and bringing home the 1887 Championship.

Best Regards,
Joe Gonsowski

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Posted By: joe brennan

I musta missed thsi thread earlier. Those are some great items...Very interesting stuff. Without the rest of the ticket, the stub is really nothing, isn't it? But as a whole ticket, it is great stuff. joe

A scared man can't gamble and a jealous man can't work.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Joe,

Are you the person that likes the Phillies?

Edited to add: That is a really nice piece of memorabilia and baseball history.