'34 Gehrig on eBay

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Posted By: whycough

What do you people think of the '34 Gehrig (item # 8763605990) on eBay. Looks like a reprint to me. Or bleached. Going for big money. Also, look at the two examples on Mastro's auction. The PSA 7 & PSA 8 have a yellow background which is quite different from each other.

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Posted By: Genaro

Hope this helps



According to the PSA Certification Database, certification number 50065575 is defined as the following:

CARD INFORMATION
Year: 1934
Brand: GOUDEY
Player: LOU GEHRIG
Variety: N/A
Grade: 6

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Posted By: MW

The PSA 6 1934 Goudey Gehrig is a reprint (the inner picture has been cropped as is typical on many of the Goudey reprints). I wonder if the seller (or someone else) has tampered with the holder or has done some creative photoshopping. The reason I suggest this is because of several observations: 1. The PSA label is oddly skewed, 2. The guides or ridges of the right and left sides of the PSA holder don't match on the front and back images, 3. I see no plastic insert which is typical for some pre-war cards graded by PSA that don't fit the holder properly.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Another give away is the area arond his shoulder. The difference in color between the uniform and border is minimal. The contrast is quite apparent on the PSA6

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I have in my hand the exact card as Genaro shows in the smaller pix
on his post.

This card (and others) were very accurately reproduced in 1970's.
All these 1934 G (#37) Gehrig reprint cards, though, are quite
easy to identify as the skin tone of Gehrig's face is noticeably
pale as compared to the real card; and, the background color is
a pale yellow on the reprint as compared with the richer yellow
color of the real card.

The other identifiable difference is the thickness of the card stock.
The reprint is somewhat thinner than the real one and its cardboard
stock feels smoother. Of course, when encapsulated in plastic this
significant difference cannot be discerned.

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Posted By: identify7

The amount of knowledge which you need to have in order to get what you pay for in this hobby is unreasonable, imho. Not all collectors are willing to spend the amount of time required to make sure they do not get ripped off. It is too bad, this could be a fun hobby.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

The two in the Mastro auction are definitely different.


Does anyone think that the PSA 7 or the PSA 8 in Mastro is also fake or bleached??

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Posted By: Genaro

Ted if you have the smaller card in your hand thats the card this gentleman has up for auction. Does he have a picture of your card? Second Question is PSA not catching these fakes and grading them or are there people able to crack the slab place a fake and get the real cards regraded>?

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Look at the EDGES of the plastic slab on the PSA 7 from Mastro above.


Don't they have a LOT of WHITE and GREY areas???

Isn't this a lot different than the edges of the PSA 8 in the scan below it??


Is the PSA 7 a WIWAG special???


Sure looks like one to me.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Here is the WIWAG article:

http://www.psacard.com/articles/article3741.chtml

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

The Gehrig "reprint" card I have has not seen the "light of day" since
the early '80s. It was buried with an assortment of 1933-34 Goudey re-
prints I acquired long time ago.

I would say that graded card in your post (small pix) is the result of
what Hal is suggesting....the "WIWAG" switch.

And, for your 2nd ??, I really don't know how any Grading Service will
be able to "patrol" such fraud.

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Posted By: Genaro

Its a shame the extent these thieves go to make their ill gotten gains. I work very hard for my money and its so aggravating that in every walk of life there is someone there to get over on people.

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Posted By: cmoking

has anyone contacted the seller? wondering what his response is.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Is everyone afraid to comment because the PSA 7 is in the Mastro auction and nobody wants to piss off Mastro?

Given their honesty, I think Doug and Kevin would actually WANT to know if a card they are selling has "problems" or not.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Hal

I have known Bill and Kevin for a long time, so I would not
be shy about being critical. But, just because the Gehrig
in Genaro's initial post is questionable, that should not
suggest that we now have a "rash" of reprinted 1934 cards
(that are graded) out there in the hobby.

And, if I was, I would be more suspicious of the PSA 8 card.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

I was just wondering why the edges of the slab on the PSA 7 look so white...

but I guess it could just be how the scanner shined through.

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Posted By: fkw

The PSA-6 card on left is a reprint. Like MW said, the picture area has been cropped, mostly seen at the bottom edge where the "Lou Gehrig" signature is and the word "says". The "y" in "says" is cut off at bottom and the signature touches the bottom. All the other cards look good. Some of the color differences are from scanner.

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Posted By: PC

I'll echo the sentiment expressed above ... the hobby is a mine field.

Is the PSA 6 card a PSA gaff, or someone faking a PSA holder and flip? I hope it's the latter, but that only makes me feel slightly better.

And the PSA 7 Mastro card looks real, but the edges of the holder are really cloudy. Not sure that means the holder was tampered with, but it sure makes you think twice.

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Posted By: cmoking

the other big difference between the possible reprinted card is that there is no blue background color between Lou Gehrig's face at the bottom (the small face) and the border of the card. On the other cards there is.

If that probable reprint card is in an actual PSA holder - no matter how it got in there (whether by PSA's own mistake or WIWAG or someone else) - that's a big problem for PSA. The seller's feedback is very high 3000+ and doesn't look like the typical type of scam on ebay.

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Posted By: PC

The seller may not know what he's selling.

I once sent an email to PSA alerting them to an obviously fake "PSA"-slabbed card on ebay: it was a PSA flip inserted in an oversized screwdown holder (couldn't tell if the flip was real or not, but the slab was clearly homemade). I received a short, to the point, email thanking me and letting me know that "they are on it" ... the auction was taken down in less than an hour.

Not sure how PSA would respond to this auction. Having an auction pulled with a third-party faked slab is one thing, but if PSA did slab the fake Gehrig then they might not be so quick to take ownership of the problem.

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Posted By: whycough

I am the guy who started this post. I called eBay about noon today to inform them that the auction involved fraud. The guy took the number of the auction and said he would connect me to "safe harbour," but that resulted in a dial tone. The bureaucracy was very thick. When I came home to see the auction still up I called PSA and I gave the auction # and details to a man who said he would alert Joe Orlando to the situation. Let's see what happens.

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Posted By: Mike W

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that both of the Mastro Gehrigs are very real.. and the PSA 7 with the holder in question, simply suffers from "frosting". Which occurs when many PSA holders get bumped around a few too many times, or too hard.

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Posted By: John Effenheim

It looks to me that the 2 Mastro cards were scanned at 2 different brightness settings. The relative brightness of PSA labels seem to indicate this is the case.

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Posted By: whycough

The Lou reprint sold for $4,038 on eBay. It will be interesting to see what happens now.

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Posted By: Brent Huigens

This is my first entry into a chat room. I greatly appreciate all those who've taken the time to discuss this matter.

I won the card on eBay for two reasons: 1) curiosity 2) to prevent others from winning it (there was no way I was going to be outbid on this card)

I am 100% sure that this card is a reprint, partly from my own gut feeling, more from all the input I've received from this chat room (again, thanks to all those who took the time to write). The card front especially is all screwed up from being obviously cropped ("y" in "says", and the lack of clue paint below the small gehrig head shot), as well as some serious coloring issues, not to mention borders which seem a bit thick for the issue.

I have contacted the seller to notify him of the situation. His response..."the card is GRADED BY PSA!". I am 95% sure that the holder has been tampered with...for the same reasons that a previous entry mentioned 1) the PSA label just don't look straight in the holder 2) there doesn't appear to be a plastic sleeve around the card which is standard for a card with an oversized opening as this one has 3) the PSA seal at the top of the card looks strange

I will also notify the seller of this card to the discussion that has taken place on this chat room.

My honest guess; this card was acquired by the seller, but not tampered with by him/her. This seller sells mostly recent sports cards and very few graded cards, so my label at this point is one of ignorance rather than malicious action.

Let’s be clear on this: PSA did not grade this card...I guarantee it. Both the cards in Mastro's auction are 100% legit and untampered with. PSA (in my opinion) is doing the best they can, and IS a reputable company providing a quality service.

Thank you all....

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

What are you going to do?

Pay for it and get PSA to reimburse you... or just not pay?

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Posted By: Anonymous

And why didn't PSA go on the attack here ... if it is a fake or tampered PSA holder, they could have had the auction taken down in five minutes. One would think they would have acted quickly to protect the PSA tradename (I know for a fact they've taken such action before).

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Posted By: fkw

I notified the seller the first day this post started and explained why the card is a reprint (and gave him a link to this post). He replied right away with a one line answer something like "But PSA graded it" He never did a thing about it for many days and let the auction go to the end. He never posted on this post. IMO I think he knew all along it was bogus. Most scams I see in vintage reprints are by sellers of new stuff. He deals with low value new stuff, this card is completely out of the ordinary of what that guy usually sells.

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Posted By: Brent Huigens

I have no intention of paying for this card. Although I hate to admit it, the previous post does make a good arguement in that most scams are performed by those who do not know much about the material. This seller, being more of a "new" card seller would fit that mold.

I don't know what the correct move is, but sending this guy any money would seem silly.