Another one for the PSA idiot files

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Posted By: leon

You need not post anymore controversial stuff without putting your full name next to it..If you want to sign your name all is cool.....the rules are the same for everyone, unless your handle is well known; especially by the moderator(s) ..nothing personal....thanks, moderator dude

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

But Paul-you're missing Peter's point: if the seller "knew" that the card was trimmed, unless you could prove that he witnessed the trim job or did it himself, he'd be covered by the fact that the PSA "expert" determined the card untrimmed. So, even if the seller thought that the top border was short and a bit too sharp, if a third party, objective professional grading company graded that card as untrimmed, it would be, for all intents and purposes, untrimmed and any other opinion would be just speculation.

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Posted By: T206Collector

...it matters if the seller trimmed the card himself or just plain knew it was trimmed when he sold it. Now, if he just bought it at Hunt's and then sold it later, without any knowledge of it being trimmed, then I agree, he did nothing wrong. Ultimately, in this context, you're paying for the PSA cert, to be sure, but one would hope PSA would have enough class to buy this one back if someone later complained about it -- as SGC would.

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Posted By: T206Collector

I don't think I'm missing the point. I'm not calling Joe Orlando as an expert witness in a misdemeanor criminal trial down at 60 Center Street. I am suggesting that you can engage in criminal conduct without being able to be convicted for it.

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

The sellers of the Plank are very sophisticated dealers. I have no idea if they were the ones to buy the card from Hunt but in or out of the holder it is clear the card is miscut at best and in all likelihood, trimmed, as stated in the Hunt catalog. According to Adam Warshaw, in CA this would be a violation of the law under a statute of the Business and Professions Code http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=bpc&group=21001-22000&file=21670-21672. I doubt that VA is held to the same standard. Being a board favorite out of CA, I have had this code waived in my face repeatedly for my selling graded cards that some board members deemed were altered. Great reading, by the way, if you want to do a search during the Christmas break. But I digress. Sorry. I look back with such fondness on those times.

It did however shock me that when Brian Daniels linked the Plank auction that people had little or nothing to say about card having been graded. A 30K+ card that really was not even worth what it sold for in Hunt's auction. I guess I was even more shocked by how many people were bidding on the card on ebay knowing what Hunt said about it, not to mention what the card looked like. Many of these folks could have bid on the card in the Hunt auction and won it for far less. The power of plastic!!!!

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Posted By: T206Collector

...thanks BOTN.

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Posted By: Anonymous

PSA clearly is no match for us amateurs

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Posted By: DJ

Does anyone know any really good lawyer jokes?



DJ

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

Four surgeons were taking a coffee break and discussing their work.
The first one said, "I think accountants are the easiest to operate on. Everything inside them is numbered." "I think librarians are the easiest," said the second. "When you open them up, all their organs are arranged alphabetically." The third surgeon said, "I prefer to operate on electricians. Their organs are color coded." "You're all wrong," said, the fourth. "Lawyers are easiest. They're heartless, spineless, gutless, and their heads and asses are interchangeable."

Q: Why have scientists begun to use lawyers instead of lab rats for research?
A: Three reasons: Lawyers are more plentiful, the researchers don't get as attached to them and ... there are some things a lab rat simply will not do. One problem, though, is that no one has been able to extrapolate the test results to human beings.

Q: Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, an honest lawyer and an old drunk are walking down a street together when they simultaneously spot a hundred-dollar bill. Who gets it?
A: The old drunk, of course. The other three are mythical creatures.

Q: What's the difference between a lawyer and a tick?
A: A tick drops off you when you die.

Q: What's the difference between a porcupine and a Porsche with two lawyers riding in it?
A: The porcupine has pricks on the outside.

Q: What is the difference between a catfish and a lawyer?
A: One is a bottom-dwelling, garbage-eating scavenger. The other is a fish.

Q: What do you get when you cross the Godfather with a lawyer?
A: An offer you can't understand.

Q: What do you have if three lawyers are buried up to their necks in cement?
A: Not enough cement.

An elderly patient needed a heart transplant and discussed his options with his doctor. The doctor said, "We have three possible donors; tell me which one you want to use. One is a young, healthy athlete who died in an automobile accident. The second is a middle-aged businessman who never drank or smoked and who died in his private plane. The third is an attorney who just died after practicing law for 30 years."
"I'll take the lawyer's heart," said the patient. After a successful transplant, the doctor asked the patient why he had chosen the donor he did. "It was easy," the patient replied. "I wanted a heart that hadn't been used."

Changing lawyers is like moving to a different deck chair on the Titanic.

Upon seeing an elderly lady for the drafting of her will, the attorney charged her $100. She gave him a $100 bill, not noticing that stuck to it was a second $100 bill.
Immediately the ethical question arose in the attorney's mind: "Do I tell my partner?"

A man died and was taken to his place of eternal torment by the devil. As he passed sulfurous pits and shrieking sinners, he saw a man he recognized as a lawyer snuggling up to a beautiful woman. "That's unfair!" he cried. "I have to roast for all eternity, and that lawyer gets to spend it with a beautiful woman." "Shut up," barked the devil, jabbing him with his pitchfork. "Who are you to question that woman's punishment?"

Two lawyers walking through the woods spotted a vicious-looking bear. The first lawyer immediately opened his briefcase, pulled out a pair of sneakers and started putting them on. The second lawyer looked at him and said, "You're crazy you'll never be able to outrun that bear!" "I don't have to," the first lawyer replied. "I only have to outrun you!"

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Posted By: Josh K.

For the lawyers on this board - rather than getting is a pissing match of the chances of a fraud conviction, lets remember that fraud can also be a civil (rather than criminal) cause of action. Much lower standard of proof (still not saying its a winner). In addition, many states recognize the tort of negligent misrepresentation - no intent required

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Posted By: Cobby33

Josh, I was going to make that same point, but I think it's moot at this point...

Here's one of my favorites:

A doctor was at a cocktail party, playing the piano and otherwise mingling with other guests. He was constantly interrupted by other guests seeking free medical advice. This happend the whole night. He noticed a lawyer at the party, being hassled by nobody. The doctor asked the lawyer, "why does nobody ask you for free legal advice? I've been hit up at least 10 times for free medical advice! How do you do it?" The lawyer responded by saying, "they used to, but I started sending them bills, so they stopped."

The following Monday, the doctor received a bill from the lawyer for his advice.

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Posted By: Anonymous

isn't the guy running PSA a lawyer?


could you ask for a bigger joke?

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Posted By: Josh K.

"he'd be covered by the fact that the PSA "expert" determined the card untrimmed."

another hornbook lesson for the other lawyers on the board - PSAs expert opinion that the card is unaltered would undoubtably be challenged and contradicted by the plaintiff's own expert witness (at least if the plaintiff's lawyer was worth his salt). It then would come down to a question of fact for the jury to decide. Nobody wants that, so the case would be settled.

sorry - I just cant help it.

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Posted By: tbob

Shakespeare's famous line about "first, let's kill all the lawyers" is often repeated and almost always misunderstood. If not for attorneys protecting your rights, you all would be in world of deep sh*t.
I'm damn proud to be a lawyer and tired by all the lawyer jokes from wannabes or people who have had a bad experience with an attorney who doesn't represent the vast majority who take pride in their profession and work.

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Posted By: Cobby33

I second that.

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Posted By: Josh K.

and a third.

Hey Paul - where are you in house now (feel free to email me privately)?

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Posted By: jay behrens

so, anyone else a fan of Aussie Rules Football?

Jay- Go Blues!

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Anonymous

clearly... what this hobby and the world needs is more lawyers..and fewer ***-damn thinkers.

edited to add:
i'll sue your sorry ass if you disagree..damn stupid sheep!

edited out the G** (moderator dude)

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Posted By: James Feagin

They have lawyers in Van Buren, Arkansas?

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Posted By: David Vargha

Great . . . thin-skinned attorneys with overblown views of self-importance to society. I think that is the funniest one so far.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Jeffrey Lichtman

David, you should really cool it a bit. I can certainly appreciate the venom a large part of society has for lawyers -- as I, too, hate many of them myself (and I've been quoted in newspapers saying as much). There are many reasons for this hatred, mostly centered on the med mal/personal injury/award caps debate going on in this country. I'm not one of those types of attorneys but I'm sure that if you actually sit down with one of them, they might tell you that while it sucks to have to pay extra insurance money to cover such awards, people, children, innocents, do get hurt by doctors every day either through negligence, incompetence or worse and they deserve to be compensated for their injuries. As for me, I do solely criminal defense work and if you knew a little bit about how the government overreaches in their treatment of those charged with crimes (or even those not charged with crimes), violates civil rights, etc., you might be a little less quick to throw out such blatantly ignornat crap. This past weekened, my kids' pediatrician was arrested and jailed for 9 hours because a cop claimed that her license for her motor scooter had been suspended for failure to pay a ticket - even though she quickly produced a cancelled check. The cops wouldn't listen and a room full of children were watiing to see their doctor while she sat in handcuffs in a urine-filled holding cell in NYC until I got her released. I did that work for free, naturally, despite the fact that I dealt with it all day and night while on vacation. It's not every day that you can actually help someone and their family while also enforcing someone's constitutional rights. I have plenty of colleagues that represent people for free simply because it's the right thing to do and those people have nowhere to turn. So, before you throw your stones, try using your head first. Not all lawyers chase ambulances and have no souls.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Now THAT'S funny

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Posted By: David Vargha

Jeff -- Lighten up. That's my point. Anyone who knows me well knows that I make far more jokes at my own expense than at anyone else's by a mile. If a few lawyer jokes are too much for you, then change professions. By the way, the lawyers I have the biggest problem with are all in politics.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Jeffrey Lichtman

David, lawyer jokes don't bother me at all-I could care less; however, you didn't make a joke, did you?

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Posted By: Chad

I'm sure if a couple of doctors or stock brokers or hamburger cooks got into a pissing contest in a thread, people would poke fun at them, too. It's all good.

P.S. Hey David. Thanks for that Walter Johnson Crispette. Trimmed or not, that's a cool freakin' card.

--Chad

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Posted By: will watson

LEON: When PSA makes high profile mistakes with what we collect, just as SGC or GAI, they will get slammed.

dead wrong. when PSA makes a mistake, everyone jumps on the bandwagon and bashes them. when SGC makes a mistake, everyone conveniently overlooks it.

case in point:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/message/1124254926/

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Posted By: JimCrandell

At some point, it will be very easy to tell the altered cards--they will be the ones not in graded card company holders( PSA, SGC or GAI).

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Posted By: will watson

PSA makes an error, and there are 126 responses.
SGC makes an error, and there are 0 responses.

hmmmmm

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Gee, Will, do you think anyone on the board has a financial interest in SGC's demise?

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Posted By: DJ

I personally let go a grading mistake if it involves an error in the heading as did the one example from SCG.

Calling it a "Honus" or calling this a n172 Boxing card are simply stupid errors. By now, realize that this isn't exactly a PSA "loving" site and if that's what you want, I'm sure CU would be willing to have you.

DJ

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Posted By: will watson

Jeff,

how exactly do people have a financial interest in PSA's demise, and why would they?

by the way, i think Joe Orlando is a tool. i think PSA makes a lot of stupid mistakes. i think the way they deal with those mistakes is ridiculous and borderline criminal. the main reason i collect PSA graded cards is because they're a lot more common than SGC (especially stuff from the 90's). i actually think SGC is a better grader, esp. for prewar. but i hate seeing slanted biased opinions toward anything. and this board is laughably biased against PSA, many times for no real reason other than blind hatred. funny, really.

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Posted By: JudgeDred (Fred)

Will,

You may be right, there are people in this forum that PSA bash (expecially when they make a bonehead error). I've also seen SGC and GAI bashing threads, but PSA just seems to make some of the bigger errors. The logical reason for the most errors is that they grade more material, but the bigger errors is all on them.

Doesn't everyone wish this thread would just die off.... sorry for keeping it going...

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I just cannot not point out the obvious flubs. The card is a T218, not a T219:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1904-T219-Champions-BOXING-James-J-Jeffries-PSA-5-EX_W0QQitemZ8732825307QQcategoryZ55985QQrdZ1QQcmdZ ViewItem

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Posted By: bigtimepsafan

Might as well look at some cards here.

I can't complain so much about the 3 mislabeled cards on my last 8 card invoice...despite being clearly labeled bi-lingual variations in big block letters on the invoice.

...At least they weren't damaged and returned in psa 1 holders...as 3 others were...despite being sent in rock solid protection and exactly the way they recommend. Maybe they don't like non-sport cards very much ?

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

" The Future December 3 2005, 7:39 AM

At some point, it will be very easy to tell the altered cards--they will be the ones not in graded card company holders( PSA, SGC or GAI). "

Anyone who's had his (her) cards prepared for auction, and has had aLMOST ALL OF THEM GRAded by P:SA or SGC, knows all about it...

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Posted By: Cobby33

What's the story with these Sea Raider cards? I know Goudy issued them in the 30s, but do they have any intrinsic value and how difficult are they to come by?

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Posted By: David Vargha

What's the story with these Sea Raider cards? I know Goudy issued them in the 30s, but do they have any intrinsic value and how difficult are they to come by

in·trin·sic (n-trnzk, -sk)
adj.

Of or relating to the essential nature of a thing.

I don't think any of the pieces of cardboard that we collect have an intrinsic value.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Cobby33

Gee, David, thanks for the unsolicted advice. If you don't have an answer to my question, don't bother offering some smartass remark. Oh and by the way- baseball cards, as with most commodities, do have "intrinsic value," so maybe you should do a little more research before popping off next time.

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Posted By: David Vargha

PMS'ing cobby?

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Cobby33

Nice one.

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Posted By: andy becker

c'mon guys. cobby, maybe you are just keeping up with the spirit of this thread....but that was perty (meant to be mis-spelled) harsh.
the sea raiders to have collectible value. no question. some sell for big dollars.
to the other point david is correct. cards (of any kind) have no intrinsic value. none....unless you are going to use them as fuel for a fire.
now let's go grab a beer

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Posted By: Cobby33

Andy-Good idea!