t 206 wagner on ebay error

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Posted By: dennis

http://cgi.ebay.com/Authentic-1909-T206-Honus-Wagner-Error-card_W0QQitemZ8726083768QQcategoryZ86840QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem seems that psa says its a fake,(also not graded by any of the other legit companys gai,sgc,beckett,scd) anyone ever hear of this card before?

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Posted By: pete

i wasnt going to bid until i saw he gave me the definition of the words "grade" and "authentic"...then his feedback just convinced me alltogether...who's in for 1/2??

my best pitch was the one that made it to the plate!

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

Isn't this the ole "blue eyes" Wagner? Why isn't it being advertised as such anymore?

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Posted By: Anonymous

Run away. Run far away. The card is too grimey and dirty to have corners that sharp. Wagner error card? Hello?

And never buy such a high priced card from somone who writes with so many grammar errors.

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Posted By: FYS

It is referred to as an error. What is the error? With all of the posted paperwork, it would not be a stretch to assume that this card has been to PSA, SGC, GAI and likely others, but this information is not in the auction?

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Posted By: dennis

fys...when i first read the entire discription there was a paragraph in it that stated that joe orlando said it was not real because the p in pittsburg(this must be the "error") was different and would not grade the card or something to that effect....since then the discription has been changed by the seller and this has been omitted ...somehow the discription in the auction does not say revised...but that info was removed,did anyone else read it too????

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Posted By: john/z28jd

I think the error is that all the experts thought it was real. I really doubt that anyone has looked at the card and told him its a legit Wagner,but i must give him credit for all the time he put into the auction.Unfortunately someone who wants to buy a Wagner and has that much money probably knows what theyre looking at already and if they dont and they buy the card then they learned a valuable and expensive lesson.

PS I have the same reprint card he has in better shape so if anyone wants it ill sell it for half his asking price

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I too, have this same Wagner REPRINT and the fact that it
has a PIEDMONT 150 Subjects back, tells me so.

As most of us know, real Wagner's with this back are extremely
rare.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Hey guys. It amaises me that just becuz you guys kno a lot of stuff about cards and becuz the cellar can't spell, then you think his Wagner card is phony.

I don't have any titanium dioxide on me, I'm not pre-1921. The catch is that if it IS present then the ink is post 1920, but the absence of it does not mean the card is pre 1920.

The error part is obvious. Those knuckleheads who provided the seller (probably should read 'would be seller') with letters supporting authenticity... THEY are the ones who've made the error. The error is that the card is a 1980s reprint.

If one of you guys will buy that card, I'd like to make a wager with you on the side... I'll bet $5 that the card doesn't smell of tea or coffee... don't you know this guy is so sharp he got some water colors to age the card, might have used an oven, too. Also, I'll bet another $5 that a 15 minute soak in a glass of water (you may use distilled water if you want to avoid mineral deposit possiblities) will result in some of the age washing away.

Maybe Mr. Cobb had a Plank, too.

Happy bidding...

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

it has no inside frame line, wrong size lettering,one of a kind coloring,distinctive paper, and tested by the ONE and only SCHWED !!!!!........imagine nat !


this guy might actually believe his own story.

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Posted By: Chris

I remember reading about this card somewhere some time ago. The owner said he did not trust it with a grading company because he would not be able to be present during grading. Perhaps someone can remember where this story was. I believe the link to the story came from a post on this board about a year ago.

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Posted By: greg

Link to newspaper article This one is from the Cincinnati Enquirer

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Posted By: Shane Killian

Isn't this that card some kid posted a few months back saying his dad had had for a long time along with a ruth signed ball or something like that. They were both in Cincinnatti

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Posted By: Shane Killian

www.honuswagner-errorcard.com

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Posted By: john/z28jd

I would love to get everyone who has the same reprint as them and send them as many scans as we can.I really believe they think their card is real or they just have great poker faces.

That article in the Cincy Enquirer has so many errors its ridiculous.Id invite them to bring the card to the upcoming ft washington show and have as many experts as they want look at the card.Im sure someone would pay for their plane tickets just to see the looks on their face when person after person tells them its fake.In fact ill bring my reprint that looks just like theirs and it can be a reunion!

Heres an old scan of mine during my crazy webtv scanner days

http://www.onlybucs.net/oldcards/honuswagner.htm

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

Similar article about this card in today's NY Daily News. It states " their attorney, James Arnold, suggests the card has been black-balled because his clients are African-Americans". Strange choice of words there...

Frank

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Posted By: john/z28jd

If the card was real collectors wouldnt care if the card was owned by an alien with a goat fetish.Any auction house would want the card and they would be knocking down their door to get them to sell it with them IF it were real.It really sounds like they have too much time on their hands or too much invested in the card and cant accept the fact its worth $2-5.If they dont believe experts opinions and have an excuse ready for anything that comes up then theyre never going to part with the card because they will never get their asking price no matter how much they lower it.

Instead of taking the card anywhere,how about just checking the internet and comparing or buying a couple real t206 commons for $15 each and noticing whats wrong.I cant believe they get this much press when theres an actual real Wagner that was owned by a hobby pioneer being auctioned in Mastro which starts tomorrow. Maybe Frank Nagy shouldve kicked a nun or something so newspapers aknowledge his card

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

this dead piece of cardboard?

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Well Julie if you read the article from the Cincy paper and saw the mention it was in the NY Daily News,and read the ebay description all the way thru then you would know why.

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Posted By: Cat

Oddly enough this Bob Connelly seems legit. I wouldn't want to be his liability insurer.

http://www.bobconnelly.com/

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Posted By: cn

After reading today's NY Daily News where they had a full page story about the card I find it sad that the owners claim they are being black balled because they are African-Americans. Did it ever occur to them that the reason they are blackballed has nothing to do with race and everything to do with authenticity. Whenever I have seen a major card up for auction I only look at the person or company authenticating the card not their race. The seller of this card is just using a pathetic excuse by claiming discrimination in this case.

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Posted By: William Heitman

Just about 30 years ago, Sports Illustrated in its "Scorecard" section had a little blurb about a find of a T206 Wagner batting pose. Well, it turned out that it was an E card that someone had stuck a Piedmont back on. You know that's quite a feat. Over the years, I've seen a lot of T206's that had backs laminated onto them. Hindu back over Piedmonts and the like. I don't know what the motives were, but I've always felt that kids would be kids and it was probably a kid just creating their dream cards. Or something like that. Anyway, a few years after the batting pose find, after it had been totally refuted, I got that very card as part of a very large collection. This card seems to be more about the campaign to sell it. I'll say this--just like the batting pose, this card speaks for itself. "NO"

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

Guy I boought it from couldn't remember WHERE he got the pic--and then someone on the board discovered a photo of Wagner like it, so I figured it had never BEEN a card...$20...

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Posted By: john/z28jd

I think Mr Heitman meant the other Piedmont back that says Piedmont on it,not the EPDG Piedmont back.Yours also isnt an E card front

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Posted By: FYS

"Similar article about this card in today's NY Daily News. It states " their attorney, James Arnold, suggests the card has been black-balled because his clients are African-Americans". Strange choice of words there...

Frank"

The "Buying Machine" is an equal opportunity low baller. So if it were legit, he would have made an offer. The deals still find him first, so this has no chance of being legit or there would be reference to a $20,000 offer from the "Buying Machine."

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Posted By: pete

maybe we can submit an offer to buy the card prior to auction ending...maybe the $2-5 that was mentioned...

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Posted By: William Heitman

No. That's a different one. I've been looking for the card and can't find it It was an E95. I must of thrown it in on some deal somewhere, Incidentally, that "find" was by 3 or 4 Cincinnati guys on a buying trip close to home.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

...

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Posted By: davidcycleback

...

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Im posting this email from Bob Connelly who asked me to do so and who is the expert mentioned in the ebay description as confirming the card is real and an error.


John,

On June 6, 2005 I was shown the subject card, along with scientific documentation that the paper was turn of the century. I was shown documentation that the printing method was old. I was also shown documentation that the card was not laminated.

I have copied parts of my appraisal below:

1.We assume no responsibility for matters legal in character, nor do we render any opinion as to title. This document is based upon the readily apparent identity of the item appraised, and neither further opinion nor guarantee of authenticity, genuineness, attribution or authorship is made. No responsibility is assumed for latent defects that may affect the value, nor for any expertise required to disclose such conditions. Any liens and encumbrances have been disregarded.

2. This appraisal was written for TOTAL 4 FILLMENT, LLC. Possession of this report, or copies thereof, does not carry with it the right of publication in part or whole, without the written consent of the appraiser.

3. Because of the ease with which various typographic elements - "S" in Snodgrass, "o" in Toronto, can be erased, many fakes of this type of error are known; collectors should be wary and consider having the cards professionally authenticated.

In NO part of my appraisal do I authenticate the card. No one has the right to publish my appraisal report without my written permission. The appraisal is valid only in it's entirety. My appraisal consists of 20 pages of which only a few are shown.

In several conversations with the owners, I strongly recommended that they have PSA authenticate their card.

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Posted By: J Levine

It really is...an authentic 1982 reprint. I hate these people. They have been trying this stuff for a long time...I hope the lawyer is charging a fortune.

Joshua

PS Bet you the listing ends by the seller before the auction closes to avoid the listing fees.

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Posted By: Rob

Just what are appraisers good for if they claim their appraisal can't be published? That they are too dumb to see a fake card when it's presented to them? And why would you need to have 20 pages for an appraisal a single baseball card? Bob Conelley must be too greedy to take money to appraise something he knows nothing about.

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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

To steal Leon's line, "You give me $2 and I'll give you $1.7 million." Sounds reasonable.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

..

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Posted By: Rob

If they can't or won't authenicate the article they appraise.

There was a seller on Ebay recently who had an "online" appraisal of supposed autographs of Kid Nichols and High Duffy. The signatures were clearly done by the same hand, and the date on the paper was after both Nichols and Duffy had died. Yet the appraiser gave a value as though they were genuine. Far as I'm concerned, the appraiser didn't even look at the picture. The online appraisal costs $10, but I'd expect the appraiser to at least look at the picture to comment on the appearance.

Authenicating a card through PSA or SGC can be as low as $5, and you get the card in a sealed container for that price. PSA's top tier grading price is what, $50? In the case of that Conelley fellow, I'm betting he charged as much or more for his services, so I'd expect someone to know what 100 year old paper/ lithography looks like.

As for the guys who own that Wagner card, seems like they could view 1000 or so real T206's to know they don't have the real thing. I'm sure they have dozens of people laugh at them, probably where they got the idea the experts are racists. But even if they had a real T206 Wagner, it's worth perhaps a 1/3 to 1/2 of that $850K appraised value, based on readily available information. So the appraisal itself is nonsense.

This all makes for entertaining reading, could make a good chapter in a book on fake collectibles.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

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Posted By: Morrie

Last time this card came up in the Cincinnati Enquirer, I emailed the writer and told him I'd be happy to look at the card under 100x magnification, compare it to other cards that had been authenticated, and let him do the follow-up. (I'm not any kind of expert, just a guy in the Cincinnati area with a microscope and a couple-hundred t206's.)

His response was basically that he was sick to death of the card, but that I was welcome to contact the owners' attorney, through whom all correspondence must flow. The writer was very cordial, but something in his tone told me that bothering to contact the attorney would be a colossal waste of time. No surprise.

If anybody plans to be in Cinti this weekend for the big show, let me know. I'll be there Saturday and maybe sunday.

Morrie

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Posted By: dennis

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Posted By: William Heitman

Gosh, I miss going to the Cincy show. eBay seems to be the perfect place for this card. Remember the potato chip with the image of Christ? Or the grilled cheese sandwich? People will believe what they want to believe. Even when it is overwhelmingly stupid.

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Posted By: damian

"The seller ended this listing early because of an error in the listing."

that's too bad, i was just about to hit the BIN tab!
guess i'll have to email him.

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Posted By: William Heitman

The listing wasn't ended early enough.

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Posted By: William Heitman

I guess the old "my grandfather gave it to me" story has gone the way of so many Old Timers.