Koester Bread Questions

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Posted By: Wesley

(1) 1921 or 1922?

(2) E121 or W575-1 or neither?

(3) Handcut or not handcut?


I have seen different grading labels and different descriptions in auction catalogs.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1921-Koester-Bread-Issue-Waite-Hoyt-Yankees-PSA-2-HOF_W0QQitemZ5231602922QQcategoryZ31718QQssPageNam eZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

There is NO DIFFERENCE between the Koester card and a 1922 E121 blank-backed card...

so there is NO WAY to tell whether a card comes one set or the other (as long as the player is on one of the NY teams that are in the Koester set).

I believe that the Koester set is a SUB-set of the 1922 E121 set.

I don't think there is ANY WAY that a local NY bakery designed their own cards...

and then a NATIONAL candy company just "happened" to issue identical copies of those cards a few months later, along with cards from every other team.

In other words, whoever PRINTED the cards for Koester was undoubtedly also printing the cards for American Caramel at the same time.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Or, it may be that BOTH sets were printed in late 1921.

Either way, there shouldn't be a "premium" for Koester cards over E121 cards, since they are inevitably the same age.

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Posted By: Josh K.

Hal,

Even assuming your theory is correct in part, how is it possible to know that the cards came out in 1922 as opposed to 1921 E121's? For example, we know that series 80 cards came out in 1921 while series 120 cards came out in 1922. We also know that some poses are unique to 1921 series 80 and others are unique to 1922 series 120.

I know of at least one pose (ruth pitching) in the Koester's "set" that is unique to the series 80 subset (at least Im fairly certain its unique to series 80).

Its also my understanding that the Koester's set is printed on a different card stock than the e121's.

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Posted By: Josh K.

Nevermind, I think you answered my post as I was typing.

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Posted By: Wesley

Wasn't the group in the last Mastro mini-auction labeled as "handcut" and "W575-1"?

On the other hand the seller in the recnt ebay auctions guarantee this to be a E121 issue.

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Posted By: Josh K.

Wes,

The ones that just ended are the same ones from the Mastro auction. I believe that they have been re-labeled - all cards were identical in size and it was determined that they were not handcut. (I spoke to the seller about the cards)

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Posted By: Wesley

Thanks for the info guys.

Josh, Does the seller still have the Ruth and is it for sale?

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

Has anyone seen a purported Ross Youngs Koester? It's supposedly his rookie, at least by some people's definition (not that I care much). He's not in the 1921 e121 set of 80, but is in the 1922 e121 set of 120. I recently acquired the e121, and was wondering if it is the same pose as the supposed Koester:



Also, can someone tell me the size variation in this set?--my Youngs measures short both ways. Thx.

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Posted By: Josh K.

Wes -

I already asked the seller about selling me the ruth Unfortunately, it will most likely be auctioned off separately in a future Mastro, REA or equivilent auction.

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Posted By: Josh K.

Never seen one - but that's an awful nice looking youngs.

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Posted By: HW

Doesn't the Koester Bread set include some players (Burkett) that are not in the E121 set. I think that this would make it a separate set that just happened to have access to the same pictures rather than a subset of the E121 set.

I believe that I have seen some sort of newspaper or magazine advertisement for these cards that coincided with the 1921 World Series.