Who's been banned on CU?

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Posted By: jay behrens

This prompted from another thread. Just curious, who else has been banned by CU for asking very pertinent questions about WIWAG, the missing Magie and other serious problems that CU would just rather sweep under the rug?

I've also been banned for asking these questions.

Jay

I like to sit outside drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home I would be arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: Julie

You seem to have been aiming at "reforming from within." yeah, rots of ruck!

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

I was banned before I got to get started on those issues. Joe pulled my pug when I posted scans of 6 cards in PSA 8's that I felt were over graded. Next morning I was gone.

You are in very good company though.

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Posted By: maskedman

Heh.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Well, I have not said anything that got me banned but I can tell you that it has not been the same since all of you left. BOTN...Varga and the rest. Good or bad posts, it was entertaining and informational. Now it is just plain boring.

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Posted By: David Vargha

C'mon Dave . . . You know that you can't post that unless it is done like this: heh®.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Judge Dred

Food for thought - if you haven't been banned then how long do you think it would take to get yourself banned. Of course you wouldn't want to be banned for the wrong reasons (posting pornographic material, using indecent language or anything like that). You'd want to be banned for the right reasons - writing about a subject such as overgrading, conflict of interest or something that CU might feel vulnerable about. You could be part of a 60's movement in the 21st century.

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Posted By: Jim F

How about a thread on why every time I buy a psa card from one of thier large accounts it seems overgraded and when I buy something from an individual, it is a very nice card, at the highest end of the scale for the grade. I'm getting pretty sick of it. And I'm getting pretty tired of giving them money to hammer me on grades. Do you think that will get me banned from the crappiest board on the net? Jim F.

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Posted By: will watson

i was banned for calling Joe Orlando a used car salesman, among other things

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Posted By: steve k

Actually, the CU forum is an excellent board. I have never seen a negative post there regarding the VBC board and have seen many posts there praising the VBC board. I like both forums because I get my pre-WW2 card fix here and my 40s, 50s and 60s card fix there.

The CU board is what it is - it's owned by PSA. I have seen many threads there critical of PSA grading and have posted some myself. When it's done in a constructive criticism manner, as it should be, then there's no problem. If it's done in a derogatory way, such as stating that PSA never does anything right or insulting the forum owner's daughter, then the threads gonna get pulled and the poster may get banned. For those who have been banned, if you owned a grading company and had a forum, you would ban people for the exact same reasons. For those here who don't like grading companies or don't like PSA, you're not gonna post there anyway.

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Posted By: dan mckee

I haven't tried again but I am sure I was banned for posting my law suit results against PSA.

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Posted By: dennis

have to agree with steve k.about CU board 100% on his comments.

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Posted By: jay behrens

I made a total of 3 posts on the CU board before I got banned. None were derogatory. They merely questioned the business practices of PSA and asked for explanations. Instead of answering them, they banned me instead.

Jay

I like to sit outside drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home I would be arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I've never signed up or posted, but I think the CU board is worthwhile to check out every once in a while. It is a discussion group for collectors and dealers who prefer PSA. While most obviously support the company, they are hardly brainwashed and regulars have often said good things about SGC, GAI and this board.

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Posted By: steve k

<<< None were derogatory. >>>

Come on now Jay...You say, "None were derogatory?" I'd hate to imagine what your comments would be towards PSA if you meant them to be derogatory. - LOL

By the way...there were other threads there about subjects you mentioned which weren't deleted. There have been threads there about the thing with Dan which weren't deleted. So go ahead and bash PSA if you want to, but let's also set the facts straight.

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Posted By: jay behrens

They ahve let those thread exists, but in a heavily censored form. If you questioning them and their motives, you will get banned and have your posts deleted. As long as the criticism is softball stuff that doesn't really question anything serious, they will let your post away. But god forbid you should actually ask some serious questions about their business practices. They ahve proven time again that they will do everything in their power to cover up major mistakes that they have made and mentioning these on the CU guarentees an almost instant ban and deletion.

Jay

I like to sit outside drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home I would be arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

I've heard of a few people who have banned for basically being dumbasses and trouble-makers, but I've also heard of a few others who were banned for asking legitimate questions that Orlando did not want to answer. He seems to have a God-complex, which is ironic considering some he has banned.

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Posted By: will watson

i finally got booted off when i said something to the effect of "if i wanted to hear this kind of arse kissing BS, i'd go to a used car salesman," referring to Orlando. was it smartass and rude of me? of course. i feel bad about saying it. it was quite childish. but it was just as childish on PSA's part to continually close threads with honest questions and complaints. for example, i started a thread months ago about a card that was certified by PSA/DNA. only problem was, the the card wasn't autographed- it was a facsimile auto that was part of the original card design. the thread was quickly pulled, and i recieved a rude email from Joe basically stating that i was wrong, and to not question PSA again. i never heard back after i emailed him with about 6 other images of the same card, with the same facsimile signature. ridiculous.

i have nothing against PSA, in fact they're my grader of choice. but the way they continually sweep their problems under the rug makes them look guilty, regardless of the situation

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Posted By: David Vargha

Orlando is thin-skinned and evasive. He is far less than forthright and is a horrible spokesman for PSA (and I'm accused of being a "Pro-PSA supporter"). He never answered about WIWAG even though he gave a bull**** reason of waiting until the trial was over and then conveniently forgetting his promise. He flat out lied about the duplicate serial number Rose rookie card. Plus, he never addressed Dan's issue and point-blank ignored my charge that a former employee told me that they had 1. A pallet of unsecured blank slabs in their parking lot for weeks due to storage issues 2. Compromised security on the whole process of slabs, flips and holograms in an effort to save approximately $100,000 annually and 3. That he was warned that such lapses in security begged for a future WIWAG scandal to happen.

I still like PSA and will confidently buy their "product". I also like SGC and GAI. I try to "buy the card" and not the holder. Nonetheless, Joe Orlando is still an empty suit.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: warshawlaw

if they sweep mistakes under the rug? Hardly seems like the sort of people I'd like to submit my precious cards to.

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Posted By: will watson

because i primarily collect modern junk- Marlins and Ryne Sandberg cards, mid 80's Hockey rookies. i never submit, so i have to rely on ebay to find stuff.

i just recently got into prewar stuff, only have about a dozen cards so far, so i might switch to SGC. i like uniformity in my collection though, since most of my cards are displayed on my wall. having several different company's holders displayed looks like crap, imo. i'm beginning to like SGC a lot more, especially since they use custom fit inserts, and not those ugly "condom" bags that PSA uses

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

Actually David, Orlando inferred at the conclusion of the investigation he would divulge more information. The investigation concluded long ago and now CU had to pay out 600K. Aside from a few posts by Hall himself, in which he was also not forthright regarding WIWAG, it has been swept under the table. Congrats to CU for not missing a beat. Good thing for them they have addicts as customers.

Here is the quote SCD interview.

INVESTIGATION UNCOVERS ALLEGED CARD FRAUD
By Rocky Landsverk

Collectors Universe announced it has helped the FBI with an investigation into an alleged scheme to use its PSA holders to defraud graded-card collectors. The company announced that on Dec. 23, the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of California filed mail fraud charges against When It Was a Game, Inc. and its principals John Slight and Craig Kreider, accusing the defendants of selling sports cards “by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations or promises that the sports cards sold were of the quality represented.”

Collectors Universe said the charges were based, in part, upon evidence provided to the FBI by PSA that cards sold by the defendants over the Internet were purported to have been graded by PSA when, in fact, they were not. Consequently, the cards did not merit the grades defendants represented them to have.

Collectors Universe said none of its personnel were involved in the alleged fraud. “Collectors Universe, using proprietary security measures that it has developed to protect collectibles consumers from fraud and misrepresentation, helped to uncover the alleged fraud and to assist the federal government in the investigation that led to the filing of charges against the dealer,” the company said in a statement.

Joe Orlando, president of PSA, clarified: “I can’t comment on too many specific details until further notice because it’s still under investigation, but in essence what they were doing was attempting to crack holders and take inferior cards, place them into the holders and pawn them off as real PSA-graded cards, and we were able to catch them.”

“It’s extremely important that collectors are confident that the certified sports cards they buy are exactly what they appear to be,” Orlando continued. “While the vast majority of sellers are scrupulous, unfortunately, a few are not. PSA employs various overt and covert security systems to ensure that collectors can trust that PSA products are genuine, and that persons selling fraudulent PSA cards can be identified and stopped in their tracks.”

Collectors who believe they may have purchased fraudulently graded cards from the When It Was A Game company should watch the PSA Web site (psacard.com) for further announcements regarding what to do and how PSA can help them. More information will also be made available in Sports Collectors Digest.

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Posted By: steve k

Dave - You were one of the best posters over there at CU and I among many others really enjoyed your knowledge about cards as well as your good sense of humor. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with what you are stating here, however my only point is that if you want to post on the person's board who owns the board, then you play by his rules or get banned. If you're going to call him a liar, like you just did, then you're going to get banned. So my points here weren't about what was said, but how it was said. I think everyone fully understands that you should speak to a judge differently than talking to someone else. Well, Joe Orlando is the judge over at his board - it's that simple. My feeling was the implication of some of the people in this thread was that they were "surprised" in a way when they got banned. Well, based on some of these comments about PSA and the owner, being banned over there shouldn't have been a surprise.

Steve

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Posted By: will watson

steve, are you stevek on CU? i've always enjoyed your posts

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Posted By: jay behrens

It may be SU's board, but if I'm a loyal customer, I'd be very concerned about their business practices when someone with legitimate questions gets banned and they try their best to hide every mistake they make. That doesn't instill any confidence in me.

When I got back into the hobby I was pretty much anti-slab. I slowly changed my thinking on that and was pretty indifferent about the various companies. PSA's actions and eventually getting banned from their board made it easy for me to become big fan of SGC.

Jay

I like to sit outside drink beer and yell at people. If I did this at home I would be arrested, so I go to baseball games and fit right in.

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Posted By: leon

I have to disagree a little bit. As the somewhat "owner" of this board I haven't edited or deleted anyone that questioned me or my practices. Even when there was a split of boards, and I formed another more focused one, I always let people speak their piece as long at it was not done in a personal way. IF someone calls me a dumb*** that's fine. Just tell me why. Even on this public forum I have no issue with folks disagreeing and questioning me. I had about 60 different responses on what direction to take the board a while back. Folks disagreed and so forth and I don't remember ever editing anything having to do with me. I guess the difference could be that I am not in fear of losing my 6 figure salary for doing this? I still have only banned exactly one person from this board and I don't even know who they are. It was an IP address blocked of someone throwing jabs that wouldn't email me privately, or be known. I won't let people bash anyone, including myself, anonymously. So in short, as the somewhat owner of this board, I respectfully disagree. best regards

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Posted By: dennis

leon..the difference is they are selling a service and they would not want the uniformed,informed

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

But rather the way they were asked. There are too many "Cliff Clavins" in this hobby. I get tired of hearing people tell me about all the years of experience they have. Don't tell us we should respect you - show us. Kudos to PSA for banning some of those people, only we're probably getting a bigger earful over here as a result.

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Posted By: David Vargha

Believe me Steve, I wasn't surprised that I was banned. As you and others have stated, it's CU's board and they can do what they want. I still stand behind everything that I said about Orlando. When he speaks, he says nothing. When he's silent, he speaks volumes.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: steve k

Thanks Will - I do enjoy both boards in their own different ways.

Leon - I think most everyone, if not everyone here would agree that you are moderating the board to perfection. Nobody here would ever equate you with Joe Orlando. The VBC Forum would be though absolutely perfect if also you would ban that guy Jay Behrens.

Jay it was a joke. It was just a joke... :)

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Posted By: steve k

Dave - You are probably also aware that they banned that Arab shiek poster from the Middle East. That was some very, very funny stuff.

Steve

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Posted By: David Vargha

Steve - They also banned "Joan Orlando".

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

wasnt Tony Orlando banned too ???

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Posted By: Jim Crandell

I as well have been banned on CU. Not quite sure for what exactly but probably because I kept bringing up issues relative to their consistent grading--losing graders, shifting their grading philosophy and asking questions about the WIWAG and Pete Rose card issues.

At that time there were a lot of vocal defenders on the CU board.

Would agree that the CU boards are pretty boring these days.

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Posted By: Cockney-Tumuss-Jay B-you guys here me!!

and reinstated himself under new handles several times!
apparently defying rules does not concern his conscience.

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Posted By: will watson

Jim,

I agree. i just recently rejoined CU, and i'm finding it severely lacking in any kind of good card talk. oh well.