T206 Plank on PSA's website

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Posted By: William Brumbach

I attended the PSA Set Registry luncheon as a guest last year and the issue of pedigreed labelling was brought up at one point during the Q/A session at the end. I am also certain that one of the caveats to the pedigree designation is that they are numbered separately on the label (from the regular submissions) and as such cannot be added to the PSA Set Registry. This rub may have been changed in the past year, I don not know.

While clearly an accomplishment, I don't know if I would consider getting a set of mid-grade T206's graded as a collection per se. My personal idea of a collection worthy of any sort of pedigree labelling would include names like Halper or Branca, or whoever has the autographed cards in the REA right now. Kind of odd that only two cards out of the whole set would get the Mister X designation.

And yes, I did get a nice PSA hat and tee shirt last year. The t-shirt is especially nice since I can wear it all of the time yet put another shirt over it to cover it up. I expect a pair of PSA boxers this year to complete the set.

BTW, maybe it's because I'm a pharmacist, but when I hear PSA the first thing I think of is Prostate Specific Antigen...

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Posted By: John J. Grillo

Unbelieveable...sorry do not comment much here, just lurk mostly but I couldn't believe the direction this thread was heading. Lay off the guy. Some here have the analogy that everyone else's cards are up for public scrutiny on this forum but not their own. Before you ask TJ to show a scan of the T-206, why don't know make all your cards available for viewing on line...all it takes is for 1 or 2 people to start a "rumor" of a trimmed card (that they'll never no for sure) that an honest seller is trying to sell.

Wow, the guy gets criticized for having 100% positive feedback...give me a break. If he had a 99.3% feedback rating, you would be all over his a-- about the 5 negs he got last month...talk about a double-edged sword

I am not an expert in the T-206s (I have only the Red Sox guys in PSA slabs) so I am not an expert and rely on many on this board for their expertise, and I hope to learn more in the future. I was thought this was unfair to the individual who started the thread.

.

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Posted By: TJ Schwartz

Leon: Thanks. No more promoting here.

Thanks also to those that were nice to me on here. As to my FB record. I never filed any negatives because I file a non-payer notice instead if I get stiffed. BTW, I've only had that happen less than 10 times in all my 1500 deals. Read my FB and see why. I pay the same day an auction ends and I ship within 3 days of receiving payment. We insure everything, both ways and have only had 1 package lost in 4 years.

My hobby reputation enhances a buyer's motivation to bid and pay as they know they will receive exactly what they buy and it will be perfectly packed and shipped. It IS funny getting criticized about a perfect 1000+ FB record though.

That's it guys. I'm done. Thought I was having fun and yes, I was promoting the sale. Bid if you like or don't. Best to all. TJS

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Posted By: Josh Evans

Hysterical

Lots of noses out of joint for reasons I do not sure why
Good thing is that people care so much, good thing is TJ did exactly what he wanted to do, call attention to his cards (although I am not sure he expected THIS)

By the way, I know who Mr. X is
And yes, he does exist (made moot based on my previous statement)
He has been a client for many years

No I will not tell
Josh

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Posted By: jay behrens

John, the whole eBay feedback system is a total joke. TJ says he doesn leave negs beucase he just files a non-bidder report. What he's probably not telling you is that he is not leaving the neg for fear of the getting the usualy retaliatory neg. Thus he maintains 100% feedback.

TJ, not saying you don't have a great rep. you do, I know who are from before I got out of the hobby, but don't brag about your feedback when you aren't willing to use the system properly. By you not leaving a neg for these people, you let repeat offenders get off the hook. I've cancelled bids from people who have a habit of non-payment. If you aren't willing to neg nonpayers, then the feedback system isn't working the way it should and you bragging about 100% feedback is laughable.

Best of luck to you.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I don't think anyone doubts Mr. X exists, but if he chooses to remain anonymous on the label, I go back to my original point: what cache does the label add to the card? And isn't the term "anonymous celebrity" sort of an oxymoron? For the sake of the pedigree, he can't be both famous and unknown at the same time. If he wishes to remain anonymous, fine, but if he wants his collection to be special because he once owned it, then he should reveal his name. It just can't work both ways.

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Posted By: leon

I don't think the point TJ is making has anything to do with Mr.X. As he said he was just trying to have some fun and get exposure. He has done that. Forget about the rest of it and it makes sense....regards...(how bout the new high bidder?-inside joke)

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

...edited, because I'm repeating what's been said already by others

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Posted By: John

I agree with you Barry. I’ve received scans of both the Plank and the Magie. I think the whole label thing is kind of silly and very late night shopping channel. I plan on bidding if the expectations on the cards aren’t to high, which I believe they will be. But you’re absolutely right Barry. You cant be famous and anonymous at the same time unless you’re a super hero, so until Batman or Green Lantern’s cards are for sale just label it what it is a 1909 T206.


P.S. I don’t think a set of T206’s especially a Plank and Magie need any extra excitement. I think it’s really exciting on their own.

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Posted By: Marc S.

are we seriously giving people crap now for having perfect feedback?!?!?!

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Posted By: dan mckee

Well put Jay, at least someone understood my post about feedback. I pay immediately and ship the same day, but if someone doesn't pay, than I clobber their feedback so the next seller can see what a deadbeat they are. You only have had about 10 non-payers? well, that is 10 negatives for you if you would have used the system correctly. And I agree, you have an outstanding rating. But you are not doing your job for fellow sellers. What is the big deal about asking for a nice scan of the Plank??? That would have put the original post to rest. I will gladly scan you any of my cards that are cataloged.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Hey Leon- TJ can have all the fun and exposure he wants, but why did PSA create this label? How do they know if Mr. X exists, and how much latitude will others get? Can I get a card slabbed which reads: "Inventory of Barry Sloate?" Then when I sell it, the new owner can resubmit it and have his name replaced, and so it goes.

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Posted By: Joe P.

More to do with his desire to be a third rate Madison Ave wannabee.

He slipped this one by the B/S/T under the guise of a newsworthy story.

Every time he opens his mouth, he exposes his contrived tale, and expertise.

Leon, experience is the best teacher, don't miss out on this learning experience.

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Posted By: leon

Experience IS the best teacher. How about helping ANYONE on the board with yours instead of continually causing havoc? Your incessant inuendo's about trivial matters and horseplay with rhymes and words does no one any good. Could you just once try to help? YOU have a lot of experience and we could learn from it. I don't remember ONE post where you have tried to help someone although there could be "one", I guess. .....take care

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Posted By: steve k

I say we start a national boycott of TJ's Mister X ebay auctions. Maybe all the cards would sell for less than $10 each - that'll teach Schwartz a lesson. And if some Steve K guy with the same name as me wins all the lots, that was just a coincidence - it wasn't me :)

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Posted By: davidcycelabck

While I don't find aethetically pleasing 'Mr X' at the top of the label, it's a free country and Mr. Schwartz can do as he chooses. Of all the hobby issues to get hot over, this seems to be a minor one at best.

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Posted By: Joe P.

Let me get back and concentrate on the enjoyment of vintage card collecting.

I don't beat around the bush, and I don't tip toe through the tulips.
If I see that a set is not complete, I will not join a feelgood daisey chain to say that it is.
To each his own, I don't have a problem with that.
The last thing I am, is anyone's flunky.

You were taken in by an amateurs newsworthy story, and it is sinking in slowly.

I'm going to do both of us a favor.

You can enjoy your current: "Is this real?"/Slab Haven direction.

I can again enjoy the chase for vintage cards real up close, without the distraction of which grader is better.

Best wishes, and REGARDS to all.

Joe P.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Mr. Schwartz, I called your standing in the hobby into question because I do know who you are, as does everyone here. Your lame attempt at passing this off as a major find and then stating that you don't care if you get negative publicity as long as you get publicity is rather ironic considering you built your reputation as someone who was on the side of the collector. The PSA story says you basically pleaded with this guy to sell his cards to you for the past five years, yet you came here and said you made a "major find". It was third rate hucksterism. And rather transparent.

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Posted By: WP

TJ,
I give you credit for coming into this den of fire. Good luck with the cards only I do wish they were in SGC holders.

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Posted By: Sean

Jay and others,

Your lack of professionalism in this matter is beyond disgusting. Who cares if these cards are in an SGC, PSA, etc holder, as you ALL claim on a regular basis, BUY THE CARD, NOT THE SLAB!!!! That has been stated by each of you on countless occasions. This guy TJ seems like a good guy, a person whom has paid his dues to the vintage market for years and looks out for young collectors as well as OLD, such as yourselves: OLD. If only you could spend some of your negative energy doing positive in the World than targeting this guy. Who cares about the cards, if you are not interested, then simply do not bid and shut up about it. I have never seen a group of folks complain more than the likes of you and some of the others on the network 54 strand, it is sad. You are sad. If it makes you that crazy about the going-on's about the vintage market, then leave it. Walk away. I have a feeling that this strand as well as the vintage market will be a better place because of it. For now, keep this saying in mind: "Lose lips, sink ships", it is an old Navy saying, it applies 100% here.

Regards, Sean.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Sean, not sure why you are singling me out. I made a post about which grading company is more honorable, another about making a t-shirt and one more about eBay feedback. I never said anything derogatory, just pointed out the fact that TJ is doing a disservice by bot giving nonpayers negs and this is most likely the reason he has 100% feedback that he was bragging about.

TJ is just trying to create some hype for his current buy. What people are having a problem with is calling this a "find", especially in light of what was written in the PSA article. And also the way he went about hyping this. He could done a better job that would have offended fewer people. You live and learn. I don't begrudge him hyping this buy, but I do have a problem, as many with how he went about it. It typical saleman fashion, he bent the truth a bit. That is never good business in the long run.

If everyone left the hobby, as you suggest, that is disturbed by TJ's action, this hobby would much worse off, rahter than better off, as many knowledgable people would be gone from the hobby.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: TJ Schwartz

First off, thanks to Josh [He does know!], Sean, WP, David, Leon and anyone else out there who gets it. Sincerely appreciated!

Jay: I know you too. Maybe 10 deals gone awry in 4 years out of a couple thousand and you're condemning me? Do you see how many successful ebay deals I've done? You are hilarious!

Joe P.: Please come out to CA and say that to my FACE! Don't hide behind an initial and a keyboard. Madison Ave. wannabe? I'm from the Bronx, NYC. Before I got into this hobby, I was VP of 3 different 100 million dollar companies as Director of Sales and Marketing, my college major. I've already BEEN there, Pal! BTW, to clarify, that's no physical threat, just an invitation to debate in person.

Dan: You're obviously not a businessman! Promotion is what it';s all about. Just ask Josh, Hunt, Rosen, or Trump, etc. We've seen them all on TV, hyping something they're selling. So, it's fine and dandy on ESPN, but on what I thought was a friendly vintage chat room, it's NOT? Saw my friend, Josh's mug just the other day on ESPN. Seen Hunt many times. Anyone think Trump NEEDS the revenue from The Apprentice? He hypes something he's involved with every show. Why not critisize HIM too? My pal, Alan Rosen helped us ALL through the early years with many appearances on Good Morning America. Al is the Master of promotion, signed mini-bats and bobble heads and all. You may laugh at him [I DON'T] , but HE'S laughing all the way to the bank.

After a few weeks on this site, I've learned a few things: There are some really good guys up here as my emails have shown. There are also a ton of [place your own adjective here] on here. Don't know about this group, but I work 14 hours a day in the HOBBY and am typing this at 12:45 AM after a 10 hour day at my store. I try to have a good time with my profession. I will not let you negative types bother me at all, but I WILL not sit back and get abused over this.

Thanks also to the many that have emailed me in support. You know who you are and so do I. I will not forget it. While many here will not bid on cards because 2 of them say the dreaded Mr. X, many have emailed me that they will and some have asked for time to save up. I'll say it again. If I needed a rare card to frinish my set, I could care LESS what name might be on the holder! I've got $5. Don't you?

Now all you attackers can continue blasting me for daring to promote a big deal and having fun. Methinks this site is no longer fun for me. I've been a VERY opinionated columnist for 14 years now. I'm used to emails and phone calls that disagree with me. Good and healthy, as I know they are reading my stuff, agree or not. You see, I publish my email and phone number beneath every column and have done so since 1992. I welcome comments from my readers, good or bad and asnwer them ALL.

SEE YA! TJS

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

The thread was started about the Plank card. How about a scan of the card? It may actually help you in this manner.

One thing I don't understand about the mr. X thing as a promotional venture. It seems to like you are trying to something with a halloween mask on. Does this help to sell anything but the mask? Why not sell your cards for what they are, a collection of T206 cards with 2 of the rarities, that sell themselves.

Just my observations of the whole situation.

Lee

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Posted By: John

TJ;

I understand all to well sales. I also understand hype. But lets face it when you made the post “Complete T206 Set Found” no set was found it was purchased from a long time collector. It wasn’t found in an attic or shoebox. This was a purchase you made or tried to make for many years, which finally came to fruition.

I have a decent collection will PSA slab my T206’s from the Wonkaticket collection. Many people had a very good point (which you have missed). When you label something the Mr. X collection your giving provenance to something. But not knowing who Mr. X is destroys any meaning behind the provenance which you make reference too.

This is just another sad example of grading companies and dealers creating rarities. This stuff falls under the “one of only 13 examples with only 11 higher” crap. The sad part is these cards need no hype or added rarities shtick; it’s a T206 Plank and Magie enough said.

Tj, Lets not get out of hand comparing yourself to Donald Trump. Yes its true he uses the school of business if you don’t tell everyone your successful how will they know. But he also manages to declare bankruptcy every 2-3 years.

I wish you luck with your auctions; it just seems for a guy who just made a major business purchase, and who has run several 100 million dollar companies sales and marketing efforts. You would have better things to do than have pissing matches with the people on this board.

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Posted By: barrysloate

To Sean- I actually think this has been an interesting thread. Clearly the Mr. X label is unusual to say the least and it is just elicting many opinions from people like myself who are baffled by it. And to TJ, and I'm not sure I know you, I don't think you are being attacked; however, whatever you hoped to achieve with the Mr. X label doesn't quite seem to be catching on, and I'm not even certain of its promotional value. In what way does it help you sell the collection? I'll say it again, it tells the buyer absolutely nothing. And what's the big secret? If people knew who owned this collection, that might help sell it. As it is, I'd say it neither helps nor hurts. I might also chime in and add the hobby may suffer from overpromotion. For all the good Alan Rosen may or may not have done for this industry, he's turned his business into a three-ring circus and I don't believe everyone is fond of that. I would venture there are many who would much prefer a lower key approach to the hobby.

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

TJ, etc. - this isn't a board composed of people who think exactly alike, so if you are going to come here and try to hype your wares, you should be prepared for anything. It's not like this board hasn't bashed the hell out of people in the past, especially when high-dollar items are involved like your Plank, or when a perceived policy change is being made by a major grading company.

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Posted By: Mike P.

Again for those who missed it, the "Mr. X" thing is nothing extraordinary. Anyone can pay a fee and have a name printed on the slab (see above article I posted from PSAs website). If you want the "Wonka Ticket Collection" onthe slab it can be yours.

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

that's why I used the word "perceived"

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Posted By: JimB

So he called a big buy a "find" or has PSA put a silly label on the slab for hype. So this is all a bit shameless. TJ has not hurt anybody or misrepresented what he is selling in any way. He is NOT trying to sell fake or altered cards. He is not trying to rip anybody off. He is simply a businessman trying to hype his product. I would not personally do it the way he has, but I don't think he deserves the attacks he has gotten here.
JimB

p.s. Slipping in plugs for other cards at the end of one of his other messages in this thread was obnoxiously shameless.

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

I agree for the most part, but you aren't going to change the "personality" of this board. On a positive note, if you check other boards on the web I think you will find that we are less shark-like than 99% of them.

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Posted By: andy becker

i must agree with jimb.
100%.
tj hasn't done anything really wrong and isn't (imo) really deserving of all this. i never would have chimmed in until he started to plug ebay listings that had nothing to do with this post. i thought that was way out of bounds.


edited to include my name

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Posted By: DJ

I found this thread very amusing. I think anytime you try and do something different, you get picked on.

This is a Board where people trade information and discuss vintage trading cards and rarely do I see anyone trying to promote themselves the way T.J has. He stirred the pot by first off telling us about the collection, then tried to make us guess who Mr. X (by not telling us, we had to start a guessing thread) is and then promoted everything else that he would soon be selling.

How was he going to win on this board? We treated him like Mr. Mint and his show 'look at me' antics. Give the guy credit, half the board probably didn't know him and now do.

I think we all think of this business as a very 'serious one' and there really isn't much room for fun. I take it seriously because this isn't the Beanie Baby business. This is a business where I've spent as much as $10,000 for an item. Do we need or want carnival barkers? Does this happen at the Guggenheim?

Do I think the 'Mr. X' label is cheesy? I think it's the cheasiest thing that I have ever seen to be honest with you. But what T.J did was get his point across (with expected attacks) and provided us all with something to think about and brought attention to his collection. Would I ever do this it? Ahh...Fun is overrated.

As far as the Plank goes, looks okay to me.

DJ

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Posted By: Adam J. Moraine

Forum Members,

IMO, I believe "Mr.X"'s true identity could be Billy Crystal. Other than Charlie Sheen, Billy Crystal is the only other Hollywood celebrity that I know of, who collects baseball memorabilia. After all, Billy Crystal did plunk down $200K, for a Mantle game used glove from the 1960's at the Barry Halper auction, back in 1999.

Best Regards,

Adam J. Moraine

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Posted By: J Levine

Ask TJ how he hypes stuff...in the past he would hype stuff for Tuff Stuff that was being sold in his shop. Many Los Angeles area collectors (not all) and many Los Angeles dealers (again, not all) know this fact and often complained about it within the hobby. But that is for another thread. TJ is great at hype. He did not find the set...he worked on buying it for a significant amount of time. Is it a significant set...not really other than some of the truly rare cards. Are these cards any different than any others? Nope...that is why if I ever get my hands on that Gretzky/McNall card, I shall break it out...there should be no extra value attached just because of a label...Pure hype and PSA should be ashamed. Should he be slammed for hyping his cards...not at all...but let him do it at a sale/auction not just to toot his own horn. Get your own website if you want to do that...

Did David Levin hype his Old Judges...in my opinion, no...he just posted he had a large find and then sold them...did not come on here and insist they be called "Oregon Find Levin Old Judges" on any graded copies.

TJ reminds me of Mr. Mint...lots of bluster over little pieces of cardboard.

This is just all my opinion.

Joshua

(obviously tired of hype)

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Posted By: barrysloate

If it were Billy Crystal- and I know you are just taking a stab at it- that's great and I think collectors would love to own something that once belonged to a beloved figure and baseball fan. But something that belonged to Mr. X- why should I care?

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

I believe that he accomplished what he set out to do. And with the little controversy, we helped him achieve his objective.

I do not take this field of baseball card collecting as serious as some of you, but then for me it is collecting, not a business, nor an investment.

I fully realize that $10,000 if far less of an expenditure to many than it is to me. The thought that I could consider exchanging that level of purchasing power for a baseball card is totally alien to me. However, I can (barely) visualize having sufficient funds and no pressing needs that such a purchase could be feasible. I wonder how my view of the field of baseball cards would change if my available funds for card buying were an order of magnitude greater.

Thinking about it - I am quite happy with my collecting focus. I would probably seek cards in better condition, where now I pass on the higher priced items, unless I can't. Id also probably get cards faster.

Well thanks for listening to more rambling.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Since a scan has been produced, here is my opinion.

I can not say for sure if it is trimmed from the scan but there are some signs that worry me specifically why are the corners sharp but also have wear?

Lee

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Posted By: Julie

manymanymanymkany posts ago is now clarified by the big scan: his mouth is sightly out of register, which is what made be think he didn't look "Quite like himself," from the small, indistinct scan on the PSA site.

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Posted By: Scott M

Theres nothing wrong with having a little fun in this hobby.

I certainly was trying to have a little fun with my "guess" that Mr. X was Bill Maher based on another thread regarding his comments on the "manliness" of adult baseball card collectors.

If TJ and Mr. X wanted to have a little fun and PSA now allows "vanity slabs" then no harm no foul in my eyes.

It wouldn't deter me from buying any Mr.X cards but I do agree with Barry and others who have tried to make the point that the monicker doesn't add any value.

Yes, its generated plenty of conversation on this board but I can't imagine anyone saying "Oh boy, I have to get one of those cards owned by Mr. X!"

As far as the "attacks" on TJ. I honestly think this thread has been pretty civil. I think that if it got too personal Leon then would be stepping in.

Yes, there have been some comments about TJs ebay feedback and how it remains 100% but they were basically in response to TJs post where he felt the need to respond to valid comments regarding the Mr. X label by listing his "credentials".

I don't have a problem with what TJ did but I also don't feel that this thread has been that hard on him. I think there have been some pretty valid opinions expressed, thats all.

Just sharing mine...

Scott M

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Posted By: dan mckee

TJ


"Dan - you are not a businessman" ok, not sure where that came from. You are correct, I am a collector. I have no problem at all with the hype or Mr. X stuff, I just asked for a scan so we could see if it was trimmed. Though I don't agree with everything you say, I do agree that there is nothing really wrong with what you have done. Thanks for the scan, my opinion on the Plank - NOT trimmed. And this is the 2nd time you have left this thread but keep coming back. 1st time "That's it guys. I'm done." then "SEE YA!". I would like you to stay, you seem like a nice guy. Dan.

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Posted By: John

Poor Poor TJ.

Some of you guys are amazing; nobody is picking on or taking cheap shots at TJ (except Joe P ouch). In the short time I’ve been here this board and some of it’s members have accused major auction houses of selling fake Old Judge Proofs, Shill Bidding and crooked auction practices. But giving a guy a little grief about a goofy label that’s crossing the line , lighten up! LOL

I myself was just expressing my views on the whole vanity label topic as well as pointing out the way TJ twisted a purchase into a huge hobby find.

TJ knows this board he didn’t accidentally stumble on this site and say “wow these guys would love to here about these cards how lucky for me to find such a place!” . He knew this was a place where he could list his goods like (ebay) and expose them to many collectors of vintage cards. This is not ebay it’s a topic discussion forum on pre-war cards. Guess what when you post people are going to discuss. If you not comfortable with that list them on (ebay) where potential buyers can’t express opinions good or bad.

Nobody is saying the products are no good, some people are just saying they don’t like the packaging that’s all. And if that hurts his feelings well as a businessman he should know you cant sell all the potential customers with a single program.

Just curious if everyone here would be so concerned with feelings, if I or another fellow board member went about selling and hyping our collection in the manner that he has.


I also did not think the Plank was trimmed that's why I posted the scan for him to hopefully clear that concern many board members had.

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

Well-said John. If I were to purchase a Cracker Jack set, have it graded by PSA, then announce it on this board, along with my planned "runscott" special PSA label...holy cow...I hate to think of the abuse I would get!

...this is starting to sound like fun. Anyone willing to make me a loan?

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

John well put, I think that TJ has done as much attacking of people on this board as anyone. These were opinions on a subject he brought to our attention and other than Joe P. they were not attacking him just his methods of promotion.

Lee

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Dan McKee, I'm sure his response to "Dan" was to me. I still think he had no intentions on this board other than to use us to hype his "find". He did not come here to educate, learn, or share. He came here to use us and he concocted a story that differs from the account given on the PSA site. Then the so-called watchdog for the collector pegged my irony meter when he claimed he didn't care if he got negative publicity from this as long as he gets publicity. I really could care less about the "Mr X" or his 100% feedback, I am offended that he took us for suckers.

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Posted By: dan mckee

thanks dan, that makes sense, i was wondering why he would be attacking me. Hey, great first name you have, dan.