** A Few VBC Forum Updates **

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

Much as I hated to do it, the picture background has been retired to make the site more readable. It's been replaced by an inoffensive gray, but this could cruelly be morphed to fuschia, taupe, or salmon if the links at the top of the page don't get more attention. Don't say I didn't warn everyone.

The new-ish B/S/T thread, despite some mild opposition, has actually been doing okay: most of the pages get 300+ hits per day. Personally, I was very pleased with reaction to the sell threads I put up there. I realize that some people would like to go back to the old monthly threads, but those have been downsized. Slightly more clicks for everyone, but the rewards are greater, trust me.

Who noticed that the "Vintage Baseball Cards" header became "Vintage Baseball Collecting"? It was a stealth move, apparently. We've had many knowledgeable threads about non-card subjects and the forum name change was my little tribute.

I have two requests:

1) "Vintage" here is pre-WWII. Strictly. Harold Baines may be a 60-40 HOFer candidate, Mickey Mantle may have been a pretty good hitter, and Jose Canseco may have had some interesting drug habits, but it needs to be kept under the collective hat.
2) If there was a post about your topic recently, regardless of it subject matter, it should be put there, not spawned into its own thread. It's one thing to say "don't read it", but I'd rather read everything and leave it up to the authors to organize themselves. Oh - and descriptive titles are very helpful (i.e., not "What's This?", "How Much?", "Help!!!", etc.).

I'm always welcome to suggestions. Feel free to send them on.

Bill

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Posted By: jay behrens

I noticed the name change, which seems more appropriate. I don't mind the grey at all. Everything is very visable and it doesn't strain my eyes.

Good work.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Personally, I think one site is good for all stuff. except when the occasional insane person comes in, we don't seem to have any difficulties with an occasional OT issue. Heck, I like the HOF debates we have every year around this time.

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Posted By: Paul

I agree with Adam. A few OT threads never hurt anyone. If you don't like them, you can skip them. Personally, I find an occasional thread about a 1950s card, or the HOF potential of current players to be interesting. I've seen occasional non-sport threads that I ignore, but I'm sure others have found them interesting. If this site was overwhelmed with posts about whether a-rod is more valuable than jeter, than I would be disappointed too. But I don't see that happening.

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Posted By: Bryan Long

I'm sorry to say thatthe reason I started reading here in the first place was because it was about pre-war baseball CARDS. But it is free world - I'm just saying that I can see where Leon is coming from.

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Posted By: Rob L

I agree with Leon also. Two sites would probably be best and could coexist together quite nicely.

BTW, I feel like I opened a real can of worms here and I apologize.

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Posted By: Todd (nolemmings)

it ain't broke, so don't fix it.

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Posted By: ramram

I think we need to act aggressively against Leon and his supporters! This is secession pure and simple. The union must be saved. Everybody knows (o.k., maybe not the board's Canucks) what happen to General Lee and his supporters....a protracted battle that cost the whole country dearly. Ya'll better think real hard before making your move. The Unionists will win, the Rebels will perish but, in the end, all vintage collectors will suffer.

Three cheers for the UNION!!!!!!!

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Posted By: Ben

I understand leon's beef with off topic threads, but don't think a drastic move such as another board is reall necessary. Perhaps a seperate section on this board for all "off topic" threads would go a long way in weeding out the non-card topics. Bill seemed to be able to set up the BST index without too much difficulty, so I motion for a similar index for off topic stuff (within the existing forum of course).

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Posted By: ramram

With your concern about too many O/T threads...do your concerns also include vintage collectible threads? I see some posters having problems with "hall of fame" type O/T items etc. but do you/they want to throw out the diverse vintage threads as well (images, equipment, uniforms, etc.)?

Rob M.

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Posted By: Chris B

Didnt someone else (Trae I believe) start a second vintage board, only to have any post on this board mentioning it get zapped?

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Or more appropriately, a DH, no-DH thing?

Will Bill and Leon begin talking about whose card fu is mightier than the other's?

Will we get bandannas? Rival ball caps?

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

Doesn't seem anyone's really reading what you have to say.

Personally, I think a pre-war baseball card discussion forum is a great idea.

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

Didnt someone else (Trae I believe) start a second vintage board, only to have any post on this board mentioning it get zapped?

Chris -

Trae's board and several others are listed under "Other Forums" on the vintage links page. Which is where Leon's will go, as well, if he decides to do his own thing.

Bill

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Another board is just going to split up the amount of posters on each.I dont see any need for another board with the same main focus as this one.I dont read the threads im not interested in,doesnt seem like a big deal to me if it takes 3 seconds longer to find a thread i want to read.

Another thing splitting up the posters does is give you less people you trust.Most people will pick a favorite board and stick with that one and eventually drift away from the people who chose the opposite. I know that happened with a Pirates message board i was on.It went from one happy board to split up into groups with maybe 10% using both,and alot of people from the board i still frequent dont talk to people from the other board,myself included.

In my mind i can say its the same people but when it comes down to it they chose the other board for a reason and we obviously dont see eye to eye anymore even tho we have the same basic interest.

So basically im 100% against it with past experience to help make that choice easier

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Posted By: Joe P.

Us folks here at Slab Haven, have learn to live with threads of some vintage cards squeezed into the main topic of Unvintage Slabs.
All you have to do is look at the list of topics.
The Vintage biggies are all there.
PSA - GAI - SGC - PRO plus all the numbers you like between 1 to 10, and if you're nice, we'll throw in an LOA.

It's Time That Slab Haven Had a Real Place of it's Own.

A place where Unvintage Slabs get Top billing over a stinkin card.
A place where numbers count.
A place where you buy the Slab, and screw the card.
A place where collectors are found to be a boring nuisance.

The place is SDJ (Slabbers Dow Jones)

And, "Time to cash in my chips - Leon," is the right man.

The time for all Stock Marketeers to come out of the closet is NOW!

But as for me, even though Bill may frown on my momentary lapses into politics, I like it here, and here, an opinion can be kicked around.

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Posted By: Julie

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Posted By: JimB

My .02 would be to just keep it all here. I am only interested in cards, but I think that a separate site would break up a great community. Why not have a separate link here for off-topic or memorabilia type stuff. Anyway, I don't find that much offensively off-topic stuff on this list.
JimB

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Posted By: George Counter

Leon, where's that "overwhelming response" you were talking about?
.
.
.
.
.
Rob L., you didn't open a can of worms, but your firemen tintype posts are pretty annoying. Learn before you buy. PLEASE!

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Posted By: Rob L

but it ain't me. I only own four tintypes and I didn't post all of them.

BTW George, here is one that I posted. Sorry that I misinterpreted this. I thought that was a bat, but I guess it is a firehose. My bad!!!

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Posted By: George Counter

Yeah, whatever...

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Posted By: Joe P.

Us gentle folks here ar "Chumley's Rest" can get a little frisky some times but:
Where else can you see some damn good scans?

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Posted By: Tbob

This board is the off-spring of the Full Count Board of years ago which had plenty of useful information and unfortunately some vitrolic comments which were totally uncalled for and drove some collectors away. I agree that I'd like to see more conversations about pre-war cards and less about Canseco, HOF voting, etc. but if you so narrowly constrict the subject matter of the board to cards, period, you'll lose a lot of useful information such as ebay and other auction goings-on, how to spot fakes and trimmed cards, how to eliminate extraneous paper from the backs of cards, where to eat at the next national, and other info which fleshes out the people who post here and makes them more personalities and less like, well, cardboard.

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Posted By: Julie

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Posted By: Fire Captain Rob L

Scored this cabinet of the Montpelier, VT Fire Department last night. The fire nozzles are what sold me on this. Note that the guy sitting near the center has the fire captain's mask!



Sorry, had to be done!

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Posted By: davidcycleback

It's common knowledge that before the invention of the fire hidrant firemen put fires out with baseball bats.

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Posted By: ramram the image man

Your cabinet card certainly shows several nice examples of vintage 1880's Spalding Ring Nozzles.

Rob M.

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Posted By: Josh K.

I wanted to secure the house from both intruders and the possibility of fire. Unfortunately I couldnt afford both an alarm system and fire extinguishers. Then I decided to kill two birds with one stone and just put a bat in each room. Now I can fight off intruders AND fires.

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Posted By: Rob L (Fire Captain)

Glad you like the ring nozzles. I think the baseball looking thingy is part of a one way check valve to keep the water flowing out the nozzles.

Keep Fighting Josh.

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

I appreciate the responses. After thinking about it for a while, I've decided to do absolutely nothing differently. Good luck to the Leon Board.

Bill

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Posted By: davidcycleback

All this fuss and you're not going to do anything? What a gyp. I was hoping for constant change. At least do some random thread deletion and arbitrary member blocking to keep us on our toes.

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Posted By: barry arnold

tbob speaks well for me

i'm glad to be part of this board---the tributaries have helped me,too


best

barry arnold

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Posted By: Joe P.

Vintage as you can get. ..... as long as you don't overslab his repertoire.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

I hate it when I have to thumb trough Mike Wheat's endless overpriced (IMO) eBay BIN offerings, or those of the paper cutout AAA/NASAs. Similarly I sometimes feel "Where's the beef" when searching for my cards only interest on this board.

I do not have to seceed from this Union in order to visit another. Heck, the more the merrier. Only the strong will survive. (Lets see ... that is what? 5 cliches?).

Leon: go for it ! I am there, and I am here too. And elsewhere three.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Bill- I haven't contributed to this thread yet but would like to add a few thoughts. I know that many people want to see a board devoted exclusively to cards, but I don't think there is anything wrong with members discussing other types of memorabilia as long as we all reasonably agree that it falls under the category of vintage- for example, early scorecards, books, even balls and equipment would be O.K., especially if it creates a lively discussion and people are learning from it. What I object to vehemntly on this board however are the personal attacks that pop up with some frequency and I believe there is no place at all for them except by private email between the two bickering parties. You can never have too much information but you can have too much chit-chat. Likewise, and I know this is hard to police, a thread often starts out discussing an interesting topic and then veers off into some personal and smug inside joke of whom most who are reading it are clueless. I know members are having some fun with this, and no one is being hurt or insulted, but it would make the board better if all posters tried to stick to the original point of the thread. I don't feel as strongly about this as I do about the personal attacks, and Bill, I think you should delete them the minute you see them starting. After all, these are just baseball cards we're talking about, and a hobby is supposed to be fun. I don't see the need for anyone to take things so seriously.
A little fine tuning would go a long way towards improving the board and it wouldn't be necessary to have a competing baseball cards only site. Any thread that educates the readers is worthwhile, period.

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Posted By: Bob D

Well said Barry.

I prefer talk on pre-War cards. However, if someone puts a post about Jose Conseco, 1982 Donruss or anything regarding PSA, SGC and other slabbers, I just ignore the post. No big deal.

The only problem I have is when some really interesting posts are hijacked by bickering amoung members. I think that is the only thing that keeps this from being a truly first rate forum.

thanks

Bob

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Posted By: andy becker

i don't want to sound like a "brown nose".....but maybe we should just thank bill and move on??? duh!

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Posted By: warshawlaw

1. What is a "card"?

2. Are we gonna get hats?

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Posted By: JimB

I agree with Andy. Thank you Bill for doing this. It is greatly appreciated!
JimB

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I'm with the thank Bill and keep moving on. If Leon wants to start his own chatroom what difference does it make and it is a free world he just feels there should be a place to try to keep to the topics he enjoys, if you want to join him you can. I personally would check it out but like the braod scope that this board encompasses.

I also understand that the "personal attacks" on this board are bothersome and can carry on but they do serve purposes: They tend to show the true colors of a person and if you are questoned wrongly I personally want to defend myself on the board not in private emails to a person that is wrongly accusing you of something. These "personal attacks" have weeded out some bad eggs that have came around the board, without them this board can no longer be the great watch dog it is. I will gladly leave it to Bill to draw the line and dscide what gets deleted and what doesn't I feel he has done a great job with moderating.

This board is the same as buying a graded card, buy the card not the holder. In the board you don't have to read every thread, if it doesn't interest you move on, there probably is people that are, but keep it vintage in some context.

Great Job Bill & Elliott for getting it rolling!!!!!!

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Posted By: Darren J. Duet

I agree with tbob and barry.

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Posted By: Eric

Everyone,
I think it is important to define what should be discussed within the forum. When a lot of posts about game used items were met with complaints that they are not within the subject matter of the forum, I started a different network 54 site just for game used. We're getting a lot of hits, and I know for a fact people read this board AND the game used board. Seems like it has been a good way to keep people happy.
By the way, this is a very well run site, and I enjoy hearing what you folks have to say. I have learned quite a bit.

Thanks,
Eric
Game Used Memorabilia Forum
http://www.network54.com/Index/33448

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

I object to Bill doing nothing - I agree with Barry that the discussions should be vintage-related. Currently a great deal of the discussions are not. One reason there is so much support for the current devolvement of the board is that many of those supporting all the extra non-vintage stuff are the ones who contribute the most toward it - a lot of novices and people who just want a water-cooler environment to chat about anything that pops into their heads.

But I too bow to the majority - if it continues the downward slide and Bill elects to do nothing, Leon, I'll certainly help out with a new board.

Also, I have to give Bill a hand - he policed the board more strictly in the beginning, and I complained. I have always been against censorship, but I think the topics should at least be somewhat focused toward the original forum goals. Anyway, we lose - no big deal. It certainly isn't the most important thing on the planet.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I think we are all against censorship but that should not be confused with deleting a few items that are not appropriate. Removing a thread about 1991 Topps on a vintage chatroom board is not an infringement on someone's constitutional rights of free expression.

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Posted By: jay behrens

We also need to remember that this is the internet, not the USofA. You are not gaurneteed free speech. This board can be read by people from around the world and has no "home country" per se. The moderator has final say as to what goes on here. If someone doesn't like what is said or being censored, they can go create their own little republic on the internet and run it as they see fit.

I know everyone is pretty happy with Net54 as the host, but I know most on-line gamers use message boards that are pre-threaded into general topics such as Guild Business, Off Topic, Upcoming Events, etc. Then each of those has their won threads within them.

If we ever decide we have outgrown or dislike Net54, this would be a great route to go, and is what I adovacted when the thought of leaving Net54 was entertained a while back. We could set up catagories for game-used, autographs, cards, ephemeria, general HOF adn player talk, shows, etc. That way, people could go to exactly the topics they want to read without wading thru other stuff.

Just my random thoughts on the subject

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Scott Forrest

<<If someone doesn't like what is said or being censored, they can go create their own little republic on the internet and run it as they see fit.
>>

...or, we could welcome ideas for improvement and end up with something even better.

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Posted By: Julie

that the biggest diversity within the species (man. vintage sports stuff.)breeds the best offspring( interesting, healthy people. interesting content.)
David
,
Bill would NEVER do anything like that...

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Posted By: jay behrens

but if we get too diverse, then no one will have a clue what the hell the actual topic is.

Scott, good point. But there also always going to be a few people cannot please (this is not a jab at Leon, just a statement in general) so the option is always there for them to go off and do there own thing.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Bryan Long

but did the forum at one time be nothing but pre-war cards? I ask because it was like this when I found it and I'm curious as to when the shift started.

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Posted By: jay behrens

The general focus of this board has always been pre-WW2 cards with a strong focus on pre-WW1 cards and memorabilia. There would be the occasional stray post about Jean Shrimpton and Henry, and the blasting of PSA. It rarely strayed off into autographs and game used equipment the way it does/did now.

Some people yearn for the good old days, but it's the price you pay as word gets around that this is the place to learn about truely vintage baseball cards. With more people comes more opinions and other areas of collectibles.

As has been pointed out, the real problem isn't the expansion into new areas of collectibles, but the fact that a new thread is being started for the same basic topic multiple times.

We are all baseball fans and when HOF voting rolls around there is the inevitable thread about the HOF and voting, but it passes quickly enough.

All in all, this is a great board, people just need to learn to make use of the search function more and put things in an existing thread when appriopriate rather than starting a new one and creating more clutter.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.