Help with Trimming and The real price for trimmed cards

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Posted By: Indy

Hi, this is my second post. I'm still looking for some help on the "Will this be ungradeable" post. I have recently bought some lots of 53 bowman and after recieving them found that some are timmed. I'm prett new to vintage collecting but some of them are pretty obvious. There are a few that are not. It seems the total boarder is off by just a mm on some. I'm compairing them to one that is not trimmed. My main question is are the boarders on that 53 set pretty conistent or are some cards cut skinnier or shorter from the factory. On good untrimmed cards I'm getting 3mm for the boarder on 4 sides. 6mm total for two sides together. In one of the lots to my observation 37 of 40 that I bought had been trimmed. My problem is that I don't have many good cards to compair the trimmed ones to.

This really bothers me. Some of the cards do look nice but they are trimmed. After I get some advise from you guys then I'll let the people know if I will return them or not. If I keep them I will ask for part of the payment back. The only reason that I'm thinking of keep them is because I don't have a good or untrimmed print. I'm also wonder if these trimmed cards will be worth more years down the road when untrimmed cards become more scarce. I'm just wonder how much a trimmed card is worth. Are trimmed cards automatically a 1 or 2. A lot of these trimmed cards have small creases or wrinkles so they would be 3's at best anyway. Any help is appreciated.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

There are many who think that the purpose of borders is to frame the picture and protect it from damage. As such, unless you plan to damage the card, borders are unnecessary.

Fortunately, the grading services do not subscribe to this philosophy. Therefore, you can often pick up cards with trimmed or damaged borders at deep discounts.

One way to determine if a card has been trimmed is to compare its dimensions to those which are published, rather than attempting to measure the borders. Im not sure of the size variance among '53 Bowmans, but in general cards from the 50s are way more consistent than earlier issues.

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Posted By: leon

This board doesn't really get to the newer stuff too much but your question is valid. In general a trimmed card, for a common card, is worth MAYBE 10%-15% of what it would be untrimmed. If you have a $5 card that is trimmed you could probably get some enjoyment by putting it in your bicycle spokes. Unless it's a real rare card I would return any card that is trimmed when bought otherwise. If I did keep it I would want most (80% or more) of my money refunded. I don't think the value of trimmed cards, especially '53's, will go up in the future...at least very much......Personally, from what you've said, I would probaby return the whole lot and try again......good luck

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Posted By: scott brockelman

you will find that many, many 53 bowman's come short top to bottom, but very rarely narrow. if they are short top to bottom but the edges looks okay, they may be just that short. however they may not grade due to minimum size requirements. again it's not the size that determines trimming but the specific issue's characteristics and appearance of the edges.

scott

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Posted By: tbob

is that what a grading company says is trimmed may or may not be true. The standards for card quality control was woeful in the early 1900's, particularly with caramel cards. An otherwise nice rare caramel card which is rejected for trimming will still bring a good price in today's market. It all boils down to the collector's preference: do you accept a f-g rare card which is creased and hammered but definitely not trimmed (but corner rounded to beat the band) or a sharp edged beauty which can't get graded? There are pros and cons to both sides.

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Posted By: Indy

Well, I went back and messured them again. It seems that if they are less than 2 1/2 inches then they are for sure trimmed. Some on the other had still messure 2 1/2 or 1mm more, but the boarder on the sides still don't add up to 6mm on all the ones that are 2 1/2 or 1mm more. I would think that as long as the width is correct at 2 1/2 inches then the boarders would always add up to 6mm. It seems kinda weird. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. What do you guys use to messure cards and boarders. Just a regular ruler or something special.

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Posted By: Scott

Don't get too hung up on 'ruler results'; instead, find some larger examples that you are certain have not been trimmed and study the edges carefully. Then go check some 'short' ones - if the edges do not look 'right', they might be trimmed. Also, cuts should match up regarding angle of cut (top and bottom should match, left and right should match). Also look at wear along the cuts - if one edge is 'newer' looking, it might be trimmed. ...and as Jay mentioned, 'bat ears' at the corners.

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Posted By: Indy

Thanks for the tips. I've also seen the term bat ears before. Is it when the boarder was trimmed and when they got close to the corner they came back out and so the corners look bigger. I'm trying to take a stab at it.

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Posted By: dennis

as scott said in an earlier post, bowmans tend to measure short top to bottom.that is the way they were cut in the factory. i believe its 1/32 of an inch short.

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Posted By: John J. Grillo

Even some of the modern cards have issues with sizes...for example the 1971 topps hockey issue consists of cards that vary in size...makes grading these types of cards already more subjective then what it is.

Often we confuse trimming with deceit, doctering, etc. Collectors back in the tobacco card heyday would often trim cards to fit them in an album, a wallet or a frame...no deceit was intended. I have no problems with trimmed cards of this nature...I find no reasons why collectors cannot consider these cards gems and why grading companies cannot authenticate these items.