What one may not know when posting...

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

is that when you bring one of these smaller auction houses to light on this board...one of us collectors maybe bidding on something we want really bad and boom , there goes the price of the item.

This just happened to me as the TipTop 1910 got posted up here and prior to that they kept in the high 2 grand range and as soon as it posted here, whip , bam, hit , slam ...(all the good old batman noises )may have made them jump.

Of course , Iam not totally mindless to believe that they would have stayed in that range, but ...I analyzed the dickens out of this group and figured that even rampant, Id get em 5k best, didn't happen.

I figured a Top all bid at 6800.00 would take care of them and I was right, but sure would have liked them at what I deemed they would realize!

I know that Iam not the only one in the world that wants TipTops, but at somepoint you have to protect the collector, isn't he who keeps this ball a rollin?

Some may call this whinning, but a good point to ponder is that one of your cohorts maybe pursuing that actual item you have just opened all the doors to. Once the goodies are out of the collectors hands, you'll continue to pay more.

Keep some of these issues within your pals. Good luck to all in Mastros.

I still got my Tip Tops !

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Posted By: runscott

It's the consignor "advertising". Don't know about this instance though.

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

when you bring one of these smaller auction houses to light on this board...

Another indirect plug for the VBC Forum's Vintage Links page, which includes auction sites large and small.

Congrats on getting those Tip Tops, Dan.

Bill

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Posted By: Mark

I noticed the same phenomenon yesterday - as soon as someone posted on here about the Virgin Mary grilled cheese sandwich, the price shot up like Darryl Strawberry - thanks a lot people, now I'll have to sell a kidney to afford it.

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

you know what ? I love for all to get a chance to see what's out there, to oogle, dream and wish for certain items, just not any of my desired stuff !

With the countless people of unlimited funds, a fellow like myself has to win something granduer, once in awhile ? ...eh ?

Scott- I contemplated your thought and Bill, thank you, but we still need to talk about the few that you plan on still trading me, right ?

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

Sure... now that I know what Tip Tops go for .

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Posted By: DD

I posted it in case any of you wanted to bid. I thought this board was about sharing information. The responses I saw to this post were that at 2 people didn't even trust the auction.

It's unlikely that there is only one person following this board that would want to bid on that item that knows about that auction house, or that people who don't read this board will not bid on that item.

We've all won and lost items at auction for different reasons. If you paid more than you wanted to that is your issue. I guess it's friends are friends, collections are collections.

One other note is that should all posts about auctions then be second guessed? Does everyone who follows or posts on this board know that Mastro auctions are more frequent, the dates when Lew Lipset runs auctions, that everyone has heard about Albersheims? On that last one, I read about it in a post here, had never heard of them, and won two lots last night. I'm sure the person I was bidding against must be ticked off.

Congrats on winning the Tip Tops Dan.

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

depends on what you are seeking. If you are wanting a Strawberry RC w/ fumunda cheese or a Ansel Adams photo of Strawberry snorting something , they are plentiful.

TipTops on the other hand, not so available.

It was not stated that I was mad and I only buy what I can afford .Wont be the first time that I'll overpay for a desired item.

Everyones intentions here are usually swell , so just let me know what your bidding on sometime so that I can get in on it.

Glad no one posted about the Mike Sweeney jersey that I won as well- geez, maybe it would have went for more than 250.00 !

Still having fun and thanks for chatting !

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Posted By: Anonymous

.....healthy groups of D322s have been in just about every major auction in the past year.
...heck even good ole BOTN had a nice group (after outbidding me in Mastros) that used to be JC's.

I opened that Vintage Authentics lot (after laughing at the write-up)and was not going to let them go for anything less than 4500.

I hope you enjoy them, I sure do.

I hope all the rediculous hype written in the lot description didn't cost you too much.

"so rare as to not be in any price guides"....yeah, that's the ticket


Now how about that high grade Wagner in Mastros



any guesstimates ?

edited to add: LMK if you have any D322 dupes to trade once the dust settles. I nbelieve I have one or two extras in lower grade.

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Posted By: Julie

to a card I knew someone was bidding on, or, on ebay, the dealer, unless i was asking a question about my own bidding.

But how small can an auction HOUSE be that mentioning it would cause a rush to a particulkar card? You don't mean Sloate or Smollin, do you? I mean, we always announce when they open, in caase nobody noticed (which everyone has).

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

Well, the hype may have cost me, but not because of my awareness. About 6 years ago , I owned around 15 or so, but am shocked that either they didn't get their just due at the time or that many cards like these are finally increasing to the true value of which they are.

I think that I let go of some commons in the vg- vgx range at 50 to 75$, whoops !

That Wagner is really nice- does that look like a typical sgc 70 ?

Though I have 3 other nicer ones ,it looks like I have along time to go to upgrade some of these, guess I'll start in Mastros.

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Posted By: Bill Cornell

In regards to 'smaller' auctions, I think we have to officially declare defeat - the cat is out of the bag, the toothpaste is out of the tube, and everyone knows everything worth knowing. And if they don't, the consignor will be sure to let them know. I bid on those Tip Tops myself (not topping Mr. Murcerfan, I assume) before it became less-than-a-bargain. It is a new era.

Bill

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Posted By: Anonymous

.....I just had my foot in the door.

..I'm still waiting for the T222 motherlode to fall from the sky to practice irrational exuberance.

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Posted By: tbob

Does everyone who follows or posts on this board know that Mastro auctions are more frequent, the dates when Lew Lipset runs auctions, that everyone has heard about Albersheims?

Never heard of Albersheims. I have a tough time keeping up with Hunts and some of the others I don't receive catalogues for but getting catalogues from Lipset, Mastro, Smolin, Sloate, Grey Flannel, Lelands, etc. helps you stay abreast.

Dan, I do know exactly what you are talking about though. I have sat and cringed when someone posts about a particular lot in a particular auction or even ebay that a lot of collectors have missed somehow and it has gone through the roof. On the other hand, I read a post about how a certain auction should be avoided because of its high buyer % and checked it out because I hadn't heard of it before and ended up with a beautiful Lajoie caramel at a nice price even with the high vigorish because a lot of people boycotted the auction. So, I guess it works both ways...

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Posted By: Julie

Period. If I want to tell someone I know about a card they want that I saw on ebay, or elsewhere, I send a PRIVATE message.

If it's something I think would be of interest to everyone, and I don't know a particular person who's drooling for it, I'd mention it.

I see examples of both these things all the time.

When I met Bill in Berkeley with some of our cards, I was thrilled with his T-222 Alexander--the only Alexanders I'd ever seen were funny-looking middle aged men. A few days later, he sent me a private message in the chatroom, saying one was on ebay. A couple of other board members bid on it, but there was no general rush.

Now, all up and down the threads, are mentions of things people have seen in the Mastro auction or elsewhere that they think are of general interest. But at the same time. everyone's looking at particular things they hope nobody else will bid on (which is kinda silly, but still, we do hope that). They don't say "I'm going to bid on--in Mastro."

Is that so hard?

Oh, about the "grilled cheese Mary"--it was expensive enough when the thread started! I think most of us hoped to laugh the thing to death. I know I did. Unfortunate that any kind of mention elicits increased interest. Yuk...

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Posted By: Anonymous

.....and JC is going to outbid me.

again.

it really is simple. You're right

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Posted By: DD

Not mentioning items that you know someone is interested in only works if you have that knowledge. There are people who post and read this board that have no idea what everyone else collects, or wants to buy for profit.

If I spot an auction from now on, should I keep it to myself? There is currently an auction running that has a pre WW-I Babe Ruth real photo postcard, among many other game used and signed items. Since I have not seen a thread that discusses this auction, and I know of at least 2 people on this board that would be interested in knowing about this item, even if they do not bid on it, should I mention it?

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Posted By: Sean Coe

Albersheims primarily handles vintage autographs although in this last auction there was some other material as well. Probably one of the best sources for rare football autographs.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

QUIET EVERYBODY!!!

I was WINNING this auction until the big shots from this board got involved:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19270&item=5536499130&rd=1

In all seriousness...

I have long thought that we might BENEFIT as a group to organize a VOLUNTARY "e-mail mailing list" so that those of us who want to participate can ANNOUNCE which cards we are going after so that our "friends" will either NOT bid out of respect ... or at least know that if they DO bid, they are going against a legitimate purchaser and not a shill.

I doubt it would be "illegal" for two potential buyers to talk to each other during an auction and have ONE of them say: "I am going to spend up to $7,000 for this card, so if you are NOT... please don't even bid at all."

Granted, the OTHER bidder would have to believe and trust the first bidder on his target price ... but that would be why our e-mail list would not be too large. Just a small-knit group of groupies.

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

DD- Iam sure you intentions were simply that ...to let those know of the "lil treasure". These days, it is very easy, yes ,to obtain numerous informatiom of many auctions. Believe me ,I knew that many would know of this auction. Tell you what, I didn't know until one who knew that I was pursuing them along w/ Mello Mints ,dropped me a secret and off I went.

Knowing that I wanted them. I could have easily said "good job" from DD's post and others may have hurried and put a top all to the number that I was destined to be at. I just monitored the board daily and kept praying that the post would slump down just enough out of sight, to not remind those others that they still exist out there.

All kidding aside, my post in response to DD's "awarness club" was all in fun , but absolutely at his expense and essentially, mine too !

If I see something that I like other than a Mastro type auction ,believe you me , if I didn't win it , I may then ask this great board if someone here had gotten it and could I please have it .

Now , back in the days , if it were an old Rotman, I wouldn't of told. See ya's

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Posted By: runscott

If an auction item gets more exposure because of this board, someone makes more and someone pays more - who cares, it's probably a friend of your either way.

But no way I would mention something I was interested in to this board. That would be incredibly, incredibly stupid - I know board members who have bid just to run the price up once they knew that other board members were interested in something.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Like I said Scott...

you would have to trust the people on your list.

Hopefully I am one of those you would trust ... especially since I am hardly ever bidding on the same things as you guys unless they are HOF rookie cards.

Then again ...

I guess we don't really need a mailing list...

if ALL of you will just agree not to bid on any HOF rookie cards ever again until AFTER I have come onto this board and expressed my lack of interest!!

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Posted By: runscott

I'm talking about posting on the board. I send emails to friends all the time to point out auction items they might be interested in - they do the same for me. I think I've even pointed out rare books to you.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

Gotcha. Please keep on keeping me posted!

PS - Let me know what you want in the Masto and what you hear everyone else wants...

because there are some items I want and would prefer NOT to compete with you guys!

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Oh what am i saying (Just Kidding).

I also agree with the fact that you should bring up an auction on this board if you have NO intention of bidding on it or are the seller of the item. If you know of someone is interested, personally email them. My thought is that there are some of us that spend more time trying to find things and to all the sudden give a shortcuts to finding what may take a little research is frustating.

A common way of this happening is the "What is this" thread? It is an innocent question but if it is something truly rare it opeens tthe auction to all the board members that have alots of money and are into that stuff. If you are curious and not interested in bidding, wait until the auction is over and then inquire. I recently bought a Ty Cobb pencil topperon ebay for $13, I had no idea what I was buying but I took a chance and the item is old and not sure exactly what it is, but I do know that if I would have posted the questions on the board it would have went for more than $13.

Just my Thoughts,

Lee

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

Just kidding - but, you do come across some great deals! I don't know what is his problem, but BCD LOVES running up the bids on items I am interested in!?!?!? One of these days I am going to bid on some items I have NO INTEREST in - holding the high bid by a small margin, then when BCD comes in and bids, he will be stuck with the card(s)!!!!!!!!!

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Posted By: warshawlaw

We are all collectors, many of us collect the same things, and many of us cannot take the time to peruse every auction listing in cyberspace, so I appreciate it when people post information on noteworthy cards in case I am interested in something. One of the great things about the folks here is that we let each other know when something of note in the collection world happens, good and bad both. I've been warned off some fakes by timely posts here and I've found some really nice stuff too because someone saw it in an auction and posted the info or emailed me with it. So, I just don't agree with the idea that we should all sit on information as a matter of course. I've had more than one item "outed" while posting here and I've never borne a grudge or even complained about it. Fair is fair, after all, these are public auctions.
I also feel that there is a broader issue here that some of us may not be considering. Yes, it is a pisser to be beaten out or to pay more for a lot of cards because the info was posted here, but my feeling is that if the item sells for what the "market" truly bears rather than a depressed price relating to a mistaken or underpublicized listing, we all make out in the end because all of our collections rise in value.

Dan, you just have to start collecting crap that no one here gives a damn about--like I do

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Posted By: runscott

But if I can get something cheap by finding it on my own, and no one on this board lets the cat out of the bag...to hell with altruism - I'm all for saving a few bucks. Teacher salaries are just a tad lower than lawyer salaries.

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Posted By: DD

So, does anyone want to know about that Ruth postcard (if it's of interest at all), or do you all know about it already?

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

Lee- very well put .

Also, I seen that Cobb pencil top and thought it was unique. Good purchase whatever its origin is. You are right it would have cost you more here.

Thankfully, not too many spears were thrown as I was running off...

DD- man... did you have to tell all about that Ruth postcard, I was bidding on it and um...

Funny how had I not known about this auction and you posted, well, I would have not responded still, but may have emailed you , then overnighted you a frozen prime rib.

Regardless, Ive had fun w/ this. I appreciate the different characters here.

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Posted By: pete

Lee you bastard...I wanted that Ty Cobb pencil topper.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Adam, My question to you is why should I who has more time than money offer the information I get because of this time I have to people with money knowing that I can not out bid most of them. My asset in my collecting is the time I spend in the market not the money I have.

If someone was willing to compenssate me for my time I would be more than willing to help. Money still talks in this world, but information is close behind. I do pass on finds I am not interested in to people I think might be privately, but it is very annoying when an item you are interested in gets posted because it more than likely ends up in the hands of the big money people.

As far as the Cobb Pencil Topper it may end up a prize possesion because of the price I paid. Know I just have to figure out some history about.

Lee

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Obviously, I am not saying that you MUST post every auction you find; what I am saying is that someone who posts an item here (presumably because, as you say, they aren't interested in it but others might be) shouldn't get a bunch of crap over it from someone else who is into that auction.

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Lee,
I saw the Cobb pencil topper too, but decided to pass because you were the high bidder. I didn't really know what the item was, or how much it was worth, but I assumed anything "Vintage" with Cobb's picture would be worth at least $50.00-100.00. Nice to see another board member get a good deal.
Be well Brian


PS I'm still going to snipe you on T206's with rare backs.......
By the way, Is your set complete?

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Posted By: runscott

...but these "vintage" pencil clips are always on ebay, usually sell for $0 - 3.99. Someone's obviously still cranking them out, and many of the old stars are offered.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=204&item=5140038908&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Scott,
If that's true than they've been cranking them out for over 20 years because that's how long I've had this one. Be well Brian

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Posted By: runscott

That doesn't look much like Cobb to me.

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

It's not, It's COBB's vote for the best pitcher of all time..................

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Posted By: runscott

All I know is what I posted, which ain't much, and is why I don't bid on these.

Lee - I hope that pencil topper's worth a mint and you can sell it so that you don't have to keep wearing those old bowling shoes to church.

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

Adam,

No one got any crap for the post,but the secret shouldn't necessarily be out of the bag on every auction .

There are enough open auctions to interest all here, but if it does not effect my collection, I could care less what who has. Barry Sloate , who most of us do know, auctions alot of 19th century stuff ,(hi Barry )well my collection doesn't harbor any of it .I really do not like most black and white cards, which alot of 19th century cards are , so Iam not going to mention...say a McPhee Old Judge if Iam not interested in it or it is of my lingo. I shouldn't have to buy everything from a dealer ! This opens the door to all of them , unless they dont see a profit based on the bid.

I just bought some things that I needed from Mike Wheat ,used to buy alot of t205 and t 206s from Barry Sloate when he dealt in them, cause it pertained to me.


Say that you have a interested client that you know is a lock win for you, you havent started the case yet, but looks like you have a chance to be the attorney, our you gonna advertise in your local paper that this gem of a client needs assistance ? Why ?... because it pertains to you.

Somethings can wait until an auction ends. All are not going to be an open book or a challenge to outdo one another such as in a Mastro auction.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Thanks Brian, I am down to 20 commons to complete my T206 set minus the big 5. I know some of those toougher backs will be missed by you and I will have a few. I can't afford all I bid on anyways.

The Cobb topper Scott posted is a different color (maybe sunfaded) but is in better condition and the script is larger than mine. Once again if anyone happend to know anything about them please don't keep it secret.

Lee

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Posted By: DD

Since I am the one that posted the item that started the controversy, I will respond. I do not think that Dan gave me any crap on the post. It seemed he may have (and he'll correct me if I'm wrong) initially thought the post drove up the final price. I understand the point he was making, even if I do not agree with it.

I appreciate all the information on this board, and am interested in learning more about late 19th and early 20th century cards.

I am strictly a dealer of merchandise, usually none of it sports related, unless I can find it at a bargain price. I I buy and sell movie and TV memorabilia for a living, mostly vintage press photos. I have collected many things in the past, but currently enjoy the wheeling and dealing only. I could see that if someone posted information about an item I was bidding on, and I ended up paying more, or losing the item because of the post, that I would not be happy.

I still feel however, that for everything that may be lost, we also gain by finding out about items we would not know about before.

I thought that the Tip Top cards would be of interest to someone here, and posted the info because of this. I had no vested interest in this auction. I am still unsure what to do in the future. Should an opportunity be allowed to slip by because someone may be aware of the item, or do we take a chance that readers of the board already know? I sometimes come across items I either have no interest in, or can't afford to buy, and would be willing to point these out on here. Since many of you collect, you are clearly in a better position to buy them than I am. The question still remains undecided.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

DD, As the seller you want as much advertising as possible so your stance is understandable, but also state that you do not buy unless you get a "bargain" which is my point. You do not get a bargain when people with knowledge and money know of the item.

It should be interesting to see how much the Cobb pencil topper goes for.

Lee

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Posted By: DD

Lee,
It is unlikely that I will ever get a bargain as a seller in any of the auctions mentioned on this board, in the areas of pre-War cards. I have other avenues of buying these items.

So, to add fuel to the fire:

http://www.memorabiliaroadshowauctions.net/bid/bidplace.asp?itemid=484

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Posted By: runscott

I think that's Lou Gehrig next to him.

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Posted By: dennis

thats connie mack in the back row,hes got on that trademark hat.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Leo Gorcey caught him...and Huntz Hall played center...

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Posted By: hankron

/