Help/Advice

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Posted By: mlb1 

Hi. Im new to this board. While I consider myself a fairly knowledgeable bb card collector, the prewar cards are new to me - I just bought my first T206 a few weeks ago (W.Johnson, pitching, GAI 4). However, Im not very knowledgeable with respect to spotting trimmed, reprinted or counterfeit cards.

Im thinking about bidding on the following auction:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=31719&item=5109590458

Does anyone know anything about the seller - good feedback + guarantee. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Posted By: Paul M

I've bought from this gentleman before without any problems. A good place to educate yourself about T206's is... www.t206museum.com

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Posted By: Greg Ecklund

The number of trimmed and altered cards when it comes to T206 is ridiculous, even with the commons.

Does someone have any insight as to how varied in size the T206's are? Are the measurements in the Standard Catalog fairly uniform, or are there frequently unaltered cards that are just cut a little short?

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Posted By: jay behrens

There is a variance size, but you see a disprotionately large number of 'short' cards now because of trimming. Oversized cards are almost nonexistant becuase most of them have trimmed to 'normal' size.

Most of the trimming can be traced back to late 80s when Jim Copeland started putting his collection together and was paying the unheard of sum of $100 for NM t206 commons. When word got around about the prices he was paying for cards, all the unscrupulous people started trimming everything they could get their hands on in hopes of being able to sell them to Copeland.

I in no way blame Copeland. He had the money, wanted only the best and was willing to pay more than anyone else for items he wanted. Who cam blame him for that. I blame the people with no morals that let greed blind them and ruin perfectly good hobby.

Jay

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Posted By: mlb 1

Ok, here's the follow up - how can you tell if a card is trimmed (or for that matter fake) if all you are looking at is a picture on an ebay auction?

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Posted By: jay behrens

familiarity with the set is the main thing. Thin boarders stick out like a sore thumb, but there is no sure fire way to tell if car is trimmed if it's not a significant amount. To really tell, you need to be able to look at the edges of the card, as if you were looking into the thin side of the card.

Jay

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Posted By: Scot Reader (ebay: sreader3)

The seller's name is Adam Wilder. I have won about a dozen of his T206 auctions and have never been disappointed. I have submitted some of his cards to PSA and they have graded out. My only regret is that with you as a new bidder I'll have to pay even higher prices! Just kidding, happy bidding!

Scot

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Posted By: mlb1

Thanks for the assistance everyone. I notice that everyone uses there first names around here unlike most anonymous boards so any posts going forward will show up under Josh K.

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Posted By: Pcelli60

He is a dealer I am familiar with ( or at least the handle is familiar ) and you should feel safe.. Ask this guy to take a ruler out and measure the card to match the specifications. Ask a bunch of questions, it cant hurt..
I am a T205 collector (my pre-war set ) so I know a little about deception. The variance in a T205 is very slight...

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Posted By: Dave

I've measured all my original T206 collection as part of the data I keep on each card. Here is a summary of the sizes. The cards are virtually all Piedmont (4 Old Mills) and I am virtually certain the none were ever trimmed or are reprints.

Total: 524 cards

Nominal width is 1.438
Measured widths

< 1.420 3
1.420 - 1.429 9
1.430 - 1.439 38
1.440 - 1.449 126
1.450 - 1.459 172
1.460 - 1.469 111
1.470 - 1.479 40
1.480 - 1.489 13
1.490 - 1.499 9
> 1.500 3

The smallest is 1.393, Doc White - Chicago - Portrait
The largest is 1.642, Ira Thomas

Nominal heigth is 2.625

Measured heigths
< 2.580 6
2.580 - 2.589 5
2.590 - 2.599 19
2.600 - 2.609 30
2.610 - 2.619 57
2.620 - 2.629 140
2.630 - 2.639 111
2.640 - 2.649 81
2.650 - 2.659 40
2.660 - 2.669 16
2.670 - 2.679 7
2.680 - 2.689 3
2.690 - 2.699 1
2.700 - 2.709 3
2.710 - 2.719 5

The shortest is 2.453, Germany Schaefer - Detroit
The tallest is 2.716, a tie between Nick Maddox and Moose McCormick

What does all this mean? I don't know, other than there is a wide variation, especially on heigth. Cards are much more likely to be large rather than small.

I tried adding width and height, nominal is 4.063. Of 524 cards, only 72 were lower than nominal in this.

By the way, these measurements were made with pecision digital calipers, with resolution to 0.0005, and accuracy to about 0.001. I've tried repeated measurments on the same cards several times; the numbers repeat within 0.001.

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Posted By: Judge Dred

If you want to see a few good examples of trimmed T206 cards search through ebay for high grade PRO encapsulated cards. You will probably fine nice examples of trimmed T206 cards.