Thoughts on these T3 reprints?????

[Archive]

Posted By: dan

Mike Wheat who I buy from regularly and absolutely support has listed some T3 reprints that he has made. They are the CORRECT size which makes them harder to distinguish than the other reprints made of this issue. I personnally do not like the fact that they are not balently lmarked reprint. He put small markings in each bottom corner on the back, well this is great for collectors who know the issue but newbes will easily be burned after the doctors get ahold of these and put them in ovens and soak them in coffee or whatever they do to make them look old. When I made the 1894 Orioles reprints, I plastered "REPRODUCTION" across the back. Yes it isn't as pretty as it could be but I haven't seen a doctored fake yet. Just a thought, what are the board's thoughts on this? Here is Mike's description:

Our reproductions, which are available exclusively through Mike Wheat Cards, are so realistic that even veteran hobbyists have mistaken them for the real thing. Incredibly, in many cases, the richness of the color is superior to that of the originals.

[Archive]

Posted By: jay behrens

Got to agree that this is not a good thing, espcially the fact that they are bragging that they can fool hobby people. That just makes it that much more inviting for the scum to crawl out from under their rock and sell these as real.

Their change to indicate it is a reprint is way too subtle. These should be marked with the words "REPRINT" in big letters some place in an open area on the back. Yes, most collectors care about teh backs, but I doubt that collectors of reprints really care if there the word REPRINT is on the back. The few reprints I've evr owned were because of the front of the card, not the back.

Jay

[Archive]

Posted By: TBob

because I have always like the way the Lajoie looked and I don't have to worry about displaying it in the den in the display case, vis a vis thieves, discoloration from the sun, etc.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Elsass

Every time I turn around, there are more and more reasons for me to remove myself from the sports card collecting market. No sooner, well a while ago, do I get a hold of my first REAL Cobb T3 do these reprints hit the streets. No matter what anyone thinks or says, the reprinting of cards should stop. Anyone whom buys this garbage cannot seriously call themselves a collector. It seems to me that with so much corruption in this industry, the reasons for collecting are falling farther and farther away. I guess that I will be listing my cards up for sale on this months Sell/Trade post. I am done, I am out of it.

[Archive]

Posted By: jay behrens

Dan, glad to know you have an umlimited supply of money to buy all the original cards you want. Myself, and most other people work on a limited butget. I own very few reprints, but the ones I own are ones that I could enver afford, or off beat and rare cards that I don't feel like pursing. If I ever see someone offer the A&G Pirates reprint set on eBay, I will more than likely pick that one up. It's a set that I want for the back, more than anything, becuase they actually have bios of the person on the back rather than a checklist.

I do have problems with reprint sets like this where it is not made obvious that it is a reprint.

Jay

[Archive]

Posted By: dan

Jay, I am so far from having all of the money to buy what I want. That is what makes it fun for me, I have to budget and let many things go that I want. Having un;imited money and buying anything you want, well that just doesn't sound fun for me, though I would be willing to give it a try if anyone would like to support me. Dan.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Elsass

Having unlimited money? The fact is that maybe, just maybe, we don't always get what we want. Unfortunately here in the good ol' US of A, we take WAY too much for granted as well as demand that we can attain ALL that we seek. That is not how it is supposed to be and that is what is totally wrong with reprints. Has anyone given any consideration to what I am saying here? The unthinkable concept that we are not supposed to have everything? And if we seek something that is out of our price range, we just simply create a fake one and attain it that way. What has happened to our society that we no longer save and buy the things that we have longed to own? Our Grandparents did it that way... Plain and simple, reprint cards are bad for the industry.

And before you attempt to come back at me with some garbage about my comments of taking too much for granted, I have served 18 years in the military and have just recently returned from that wonderful place called Iraq, you know the place that you have only read about... So trust me, from my view, I see things pretty clearly.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jimmy Scott Elkins

And, not just b/c I was in the military for 6 years and my unit went to Iraq the 1st time around! There are "other" ways to obtain great images of cards than reprints (which are bad, especially for new people entering the Hobby who get "taken"). Too many reprints end up falling into the wrong hands! I have two posters framed over my pool table with images of every T206 card. There are books, auction catalogs, etc. - one can even find images of most cards on the internet. Bottom line - there are several "other" ways to acquire nice images of cards one wants without resorting to reprints. Afterall, if we all had EVERY card we wanted, this Hobby wouldn't be as much fun! Searching for cards is half the fun, at least, to me any way!

[Archive]

Posted By: jay behrens

Dan McKee, sorry, that wasn't meant for you. I was responding to the other Dan.

As for finding other sources other than reprints to find images of cards you want, if you read my example, that doesn't work for me. The A&G Pirates set is of interest for the images, but mainly for the bios on the back. If anyone has seen these cards, they are like most cards from the 19th century, having paper loss on the back from being removed from a scrapbook.

As for "I should be able to have everything", that's not me. If that were true I'd own reprints of the Big 3, Goudey Lajoie, etc. I don't own these because I have no interest in owning them other than if they are vintage.

There is a place for reprints, but these repints should well maked so that they cannot be used to dupe the unknowing. And that is what these t3-t9 reprints will be used for.

Jay

[Archive]

Posted By: Julie

my budget, I'm bidding on Mike Wheat's. If I win the card, and don't feel that it's sufficiently identified as a reprint, I'll add a note to the back that "this is a 2004 Mike Wheat reprint."

Although I don't own any other reprints, I was never made aware that owning even entire sets of reprinted cards was either a crime a sin a shame or in any way bad for the hobby. An "image" is not a card, any more than a reprint is an original. All over the western world, you can buy reprints of great or minor works of art for a fraction of the price of an original. Why not baseball cards?

[Archive]

Posted By: Tim Newcomb

Good grief, Julie, no one is arguing that owning these reprints is a "crime." Most of us have a few reprints kicking around, surely. The complaints are that dishonest people will try to pass them off as genuine, and that they are so close to the originals that they can even deceive hobby veterans, much less the gulls who buy stuff on ebay without a strong knowledge of what they're buying. Many of us have problems with that.

I wrote to Mike Wheat last night letting him know about these threads. I thought he should have the chance to respond/explain if he wanted to.

Tim

[Archive]

Posted By: warshawlaw

I know I will never collect a 52 Topps set, so I will probably buy a reprint of it. OK by me as long as they are clearly marked. That's Wheat's mistake. Unmarked, the cards are a temptation for frauds.

[Archive]

Posted By: dan mckee

Yes! these last 2 posts by Tim and Adam are exactly the point I was trying to make with this thread. And though you have me beat on the Iraq trip, I have you beat with 20 years and 2 months of service. My unit shipped to Afghan 2 months after I retired, BUMMER!

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

I have a hard time believing that these could fool anyone who has ever seen a real T3. I could be wrong of course, but I have owned loads of T3's and there are qualities about the lithograph that I do not believe can be duplicated (or would be too expensive to duplicate).

Again, I could certainly be wrong - I plan to win one of these just to get a good look at it, and will post my thoughts after doing so.

Regarding reprints. I understand the urge to create an exact duplicate of a card you love - I've done this (to the best of my ability) several times. But I would never sell those - too much danger of them appearing on ebay as "real". I think it's important to print reprints in such a way that it is impossible for any reasonable person to be fooled.

[Archive]

Posted By: petecld

I don't have any problem with reprints but they should be well marked, and these certainly aren't IMO.

It would cost Mike Wheat $20 to have a hand stamp made that says "Reprint" and an ink pad. I would like to think he will consider the hobby first and invest the extra $20

[Archive]

Posted By: Julie

Mike Wheat?

[Archive]

Posted By: hankron

I have long beleived that it's okay to reprint cards assuming the reprinter has the legal right and the reprints are signficantly different than the genuine cards. Examples of difference include different size, silver bordered T205s, a totally different back, 1933 Goudey Postcards ... It also doesn't hurt to have a reprint mark or date somewhere, as a non-collector picking up a different backed T205 at a garage sale may have no clue what are the correct backs .... Beyond eBay trickery, reprints too close to the original will unduly confuse many homest collectors.

If someone says, "I have made reprints that even fooled dealers," those are exactly the types of reprints that shouldn't be sold to the general public.

[Archive]

Posted By: hankron

I have not owned a T3 in about five years (had a Waddell & a Cobb) and, obviously, I don't own one of these reprints. However, I am confident that the reprints will have the typical modern multi-color dot printing pattern as seen under a good mangifying glass or microscope, while the genuine T3s will not. The dot pattern of the reprint will be particularly noticeable in the image of the boxer(T9) or baseballer.