We have all made fun of PRO at one time or another, but

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Posted By: Anonymous

"that there is a huge difference between someone buying a PRO graded card with full knowledge of what that might mean and a novice with no idea doing the same thing."

Yes, the one buying the PRO card with full knowledge is intentionally doing something irrational (sorry, but true), while the unknowing novice is simply a victim of fraud.

"Nick isn't stupid."

He's bought six PRO cards, five of which have been returned by PSA because they were trimmed, yet still wants to gamble on another one. And I don't even think this is a gamble. How he ever got one card successfully crossed over is a minor miracle. I consider it intentionally throwing money away and purposefully supporting some of the fraudulent activities in the hobby.

"He's as knowledgeable about cards as most."

Then act like it.

"He's taking a calculated risk."

Why? Why take a "calculated risk"? Is this a supremely rare card he may never get another chance to own?

No, it's a nice card that if (however remote the possibility) successfully graded would be worth a lot more than he paid for it.

But it's okay, if it doesn't grade he'll just go back to PayPal? How much time and energy will that take? What if PayPal doesn't protect him? What if a feud with the seller escalates? What if negative feedback results? Why put yourself through this for a few extra dollars?

And why should the seller be held accountable if the buyer knew ahead of time that the card was in all likelihood trimmed?

The buyer knew what he was getting, so why should he be entitled to a refund?

Because it turned out the buyer was wrong and his attempt to swindle the seller right back failed?

Come on.

That's not a calculated risk. It's the "I'm smarter than the fraudulent seller" mentality that allows vaguely described reprints to be sold to buyers who think this might be the one time that the seller really did find the card in an attic and didn't know that he had an authentic card so I'm going to buy it for a song, have it graded and come back with a super-valuable authentic card.

Perspective, please.

If these are the experts, then please act like it.

"Supposed knowledge" means exactly that. I assume anyone able to find and participate on this site has at least average collecting knowledge.

So my assumption in my initial response to Nick was that he DOES have collecting knowledge, not that he doesn't.

It becomes "supposed" knowledge however, when someone claims to have knowledge and then acts in a manner that would indicate he doesn't.

Maybe the other poster was right and it's an addictive quality and he can't help himself, but I don't think this is a practice that should be encouraged by other collectors.

And if it is and if they do, then as I originally said, it's the buyer's fault.

"It simply means that you are looking at the holder, not the card."

Yes, it means I am looking at the holder of a company widely known and acknowledged as fraudulently grading trimmed and otherwise altered or reprinted cards on a regular basis.

Maybe we should also cut NASA some slack because those ripped out and cut up magazine pages really might be a valuable collectible afterall?

I'm sorry, I know I sound rude here, but the level of my incredulity is pretty high. I mean, why am I even having to write this post to collectors (and dealers) who claim to be experienced?