1946/7 Felice Caramelo and Cuban Kings of Sport

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Posted By: George

Is there any information about these cards available anyplace: checklists, player names, values, were they cigarette cards, etc. Thank you for any help and information.

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Posted By: Nickinvegas

George,
Since you've received no replies, I'll provide you with some of my limited knowledge on the subject.

A price list for the "Felice" cards you mention is available in Lemke's Standard Catalog on page #76.
Cuban Kings of sport is not checklisted, I can't really help ya there!

Cuban cards are great to collect. I have several.

Ryan Christoff is the most knowledgeable person I have delt with regarding Cuban cards. Here is a link to him http://www.cubanbaseballcards.com.

Enjoy,
Nick

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Posted By: jay behrens

Personaly, I'd be scared to death to spend money on Cuban cards at their current prices. Almost as soon as Castro dies it is most likely that the communist govt will change/collapse and the US the traede embargo lifted. When this happens, you can be assured that number of collectors and dealers are going to be on the first flight to Cuba to scour the country for cards causing an increase in supply and dramatic fall in prices. I am pretty sure everyone here will outlive Castro and if you don't have that "Gotta have it now" mentality that most Americans do, you are better off waiting for this to happen, then spend money now.

Jay

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Posted By: Nickinvegas

Jay,
I agree about the market possibly changing when and if Castro ever dies.

My opinion is that the cards that are in the states currently do not generate much excitement. It is a limited market from a sellers perspective. The average collector looks at them with little interest at any price. I think they are for the most part attractive cards and I have purchased my share of them. And I will likely purchse more. I have been disapointed when I have tried to resell them and I can't get half the price I paid for them.

I am not knocking them, just stating my observations.

Nick

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Posted By: Kenny Cole

Jay, you may be right, but I tend to doubt it. The fact of the matter is that Cuba has already been scoured for cards. I can't tell you how many times people like Ryan and Mark Rucker have been there, but its a lot.

Frankly, I suspect that there is now at least as much of the more desireable Cuban stuff already here as there is in Cuba. Consequently, after Castro is gone, I don't think the price decline is going to be as steep as you seem to believe it will.

Kenny

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Posted By: scgaynor

There is NOT going to be a large quantity of cuban cards suddenly showing up after Castro dies. The country has already been picked. There are a few significant collections in Cuba that may be broken up, but don't expect the flood gates to just suddenly open and large groups of vintage cuban cards appear on the market. There are probably more cuban baseball cards in this country now, than there are left in Cuba.

Scott

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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

Jay,

I think exactly the opposite of what you said will happen to the market.

It's true that when/if Cuba opens up there will be plenty of people on the next plane trying to catch part of the flood of cards they anticipate will be flowing out of the island.

When they come home empty-handed and people start to notice that the supply has not changed, it will sink in that these ARE as rare they seem. Prices will INCREASE, not decrease. And I suspect the increase will be dramatic as you are not alone in your fears. Many others stay away for exactly that reason.

The only cards that come out then are the ones that are coming out now. Common issues from the 1940's for the most part, with the occasional rarity turning up. Nothing from the 1920's and nothing worth much money. The good stuff is almost all residing in collections, some in Cuba, but mostly in the U.S. at this point.

I believe there are literally more 1923-24 Billikens in Colorado right now than the rest of the world combined.

Incidentally, Scott and Kenny both have extensive experience and knowledge of the Cuban card market and I agree with their assessments.

Another factor that will increase the value of many Cuban cards is the Hall of Fame. There are still several Negro Leaguers that are almost certain to be enshrined, and a few others that have a chance. Most of them have either no cards, or only cards produced in Cuba, Puerto Rico, Venezuela, or the Dominican Republic. Mostly Cuba.

Smart HOF collectors are already aware of who these players are and aren't waiting until they become Bid McPhee, a hole in everyone's collection and a card on everyone's want list.

So get your Biz Mackey and Cristobal Torriente cards now while you still can!

Or you can always wait until Cuba opens up and they're given away on every street corner like flyers for strip clubs in Vegas.

-Ryan

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Posted By: Peter Thomas

Having lived in Miami for the past 25 years after more than that in Boston, I agree with Ryan. Many of my collector friends are Cuban and they all have relatives in Cuba and for the most part the cards are out of Cuba. The big collections in Cuba will come here pretty much intact and be passed on to relatives most of whom will keep them in the family.

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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

George,

I just realized we never really gave you an answer about the issues you wanted more info about. E-mail me and I can send you checklists and try to answer your questions. My e-mail address is: ryan@cubanbaseballcards.com

-Ryan

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Posted By: jay behrens

I'll take your guys word for it since the Cuban cards hit the market after I got out of the habby intially and know very little about them outside of what I ahve read on this board. Either way, As much as I would love to have cards of the great Negro League players, they are well out of my price range.

The one player I'd really like to get a card of, is there is one, is of Lou Dials. We became good friends while I was living in CA and always enjoyed when I brought my son with me to shows. Too bad my son was just a toddler and unable to udnerstand the stories he told of his playing days.

Jay

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Posted By: Joe P.

Scott Gaynor - Ryan Christoff - Kenny Cole and Peter Thomas.
The buying trips have been going on for quite awhile.
Whether you're collecting Latin cards for personal/sentimental reasons or for speculation, the ride promises to be an interesting one.
To the collector, it will always be a joy.
As for the speculators, it can be a crap shoot.

Scott G. long time no see, how are you.
Joe P.