Question about Harper's Woodcuts

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Posted By: Albie O'Hanian

In the latest Smolin auction there are a couple of lots (24 and 25) that deal with Harper's Woodcuts. Can anybody give me information about these woodcuts or website that I could look at for this information?
Thanks.

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Posted By: Albie O'Hanian

Sorry about the double post.

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Posted By: runscott

Otherwise, send me an email or post specific questions and I'll try to answer them. I have a couple and I know there are others on this board who have collected them.

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Posted By: David

Harper's Woodcuts (to be more accrate they are wood-engravings, which is a form of woodcut) were pictures in the pages of the Harper's Weekly, an illustrated magazines. They were not premiums or suppliments, but printed as part of magazine, and are often surrounded by other pics and or have text on the back. However, as these prints were handmade (it often took a couple of weeks to make the printing plate, as the design was carved by handheld tools), they are considered significant-- and treated as a different animal than a modern newspaper or magazine picture. Back in those days, they didn't have the modern commercial printing methods that would photographically reproduce a sketch or photo, so the pictures in newspapers and on trading cards were handmade by professional craftsmen.

I don't have a copy of the the Smolin Auction catalog, so I don't know which Harper's are being offered. But if you post which ones they are, I can comment better.

If you've never owned a Harper's, Lelie's Illustrated or similar baseball woodcut, they are tremendous display pieces. The largest ones, which covered two pages of the magzine, are the size of a small poster.

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Posted By: David

It is worthy of note, that one of the Harper's employed artists in the 1850s-60s was a then unknown painter named Homer Winslow (though he didn't do any of the baseball ones). So, even in the fine arts Harper's Woodcuts receive due respect (for whatever you may think that's worth), and the original copies (magazine reprints were made at one point) of the magazines with Winlow's woodcuts are highly sought after.

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Posted By: Craig

David,
Can you describe how to tell the difference between the original Harper's engravings and the ones published later in the reprints? Thanks

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Posted By: Albie O'Hanian

Thanks for the posts. Lot #24 is "Harper's Weekly Woodcut Collection of 7" includes six team woodcuts - (2) Champion Nine of the Atlantic Base-Ball Club of Brooklyn (11/25/65 3/4 page), The Atlantic Baseball Club of Brooklyn and the Athletic of Philadelphia (11/3/66, full-pg), The Metropolitan Baseball Nine (8/5/82 1/2 page), The Providence Base-Ball Club (9/30/82 1/2 page) and the Chicago Baseball Club (10/17/85 1/3 page)." All are EX or better.
I am interested in this lot (because of the amount of 19th century Hall of Famers) and was curious what exactly they were and what kind of dollar value is usually associated with these items.

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Posted By: David

Craig, I wrote a long article relating to this subject, and submitted it to VCBC. However, many know that the publisher is not big on communication, so I have no clue as to whether it will appear.

If you you are concerned about reprints of the baseball Harper's Woodcuts, don't be overly concerned. It's not a big issue in that area, and all the baseball woodcuts I've seen were original. If someone sees a nice Harper's or other woodcut at eBay he wants to bid on, there should be no big worry. Also, realize that experienced dealers of early newspapers and related are usually very knowledgeable about the material (original versus reprint, etc)-- even if they know nothing about baseball or King Kelly.

Albie, the Smolin lot looks like a decent if enough collection. I've owned them all, except the Providence. Probably worth a few hundred. However, I don't think any of them are particuarly rare. So if the bidding seems to get out of hand, you will be able to find these and other examples elsewhere at some point in the future. In other words, it's not a one of a kind lot that you will never see again.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

from an art gallery on e-bay that sold things clear back to the end of the 17th century. Later, I bought "Champion Base Ball Players" (1885) from Mark Macrae for $250 (I think...) Mark was astonished when i told him about my Providence buy. I really love them, and keep them both in an acid-free environment, with a Mylar window. I especially like the Providence
one (1882), because of the ads on the back.;...they're almost as interesting as the baseball team!

Like the strange little man on the back of the Peck and Snyder is almost as interesting as the baseball team...

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Posted By: David

Yes, Julie, the prices definitely bounce around on these-- especially as they are often not listed in the baseball categories, and are often still in the magazines. Bargains can be found.

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Posted By: runscott

framed with acid-free mat - gorgeous. I picked up the Ewing one pretty cheap as well - I think $65 - but you can find all of them for under $50 each if you keep your eyes open on ebay.

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Posted By: runscott

I went ahead and started a new web-page - click on "1888 Golden Argosy" to see the wood-cut:

http://www.homestead.com/runscott/PhotosEtc.html

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Posted By: Jay Miller

I don't know that much about these but I do know that the Caylor article in Lot 25 is a really neat item. It has small images of many players but, more importantly, it has the full rosters of all 1890 Player's League and National League teams. I have a copy under the glass top of my desk at home and used this as a reference when I did my VCBC article about Old Judge Player's League cards.