Old Judge baseball banner on eBay

[Archive]

Posted By: Keith O'Leary

Here it is:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1830824848

If its real, WOW what a banner, but take a look at the guy's feedback. He had it listed once, ended the auction, then relisted it again. I emailed him the first time it was on since he lives in PA also. Was hoping I could see it in person, he has yet to get back to me. If its real, you're talking 25,000 - 30,000K. My opinion is proceed with great caution, anyone else have an opinion about it or the seller? Thanks, Keith

[Archive]

Posted By: Jay Miller

I live in Connecticut and offered to drive down to see it. The seller said it belonged to his mother-in-law and thought it would be a problem to see it. Soooo, who knows.

[Archive]

Posted By: Tom

Not to be a Rush Limbaugh fan or anything, but I agree............proceed with CAUTION. If you see it in person, give us all a heads up on authenticity and condition...........

[Archive]

Posted By: Brueso

I would hesitate to make a $100 bid on a dealer, let alone $1,000+. I would also say that what other posters have said above about the guy's reluctance to let anyone get a look at it also would give me pause.

[Archive]

Posted By: HalleyGator

No way they could have made something like that back in the 1800's ... look at all the glossy plastic coated finish from the glare of the flash.

No chance of it being old and real.

[Archive]

Posted By: HalleyGator

The seller has very few feedbacks...

and one of the only bidders is a SHILL with only 1 feedback.

RUN AWAY FAST!!

[Archive]

Posted By: Jaime Leiderman

It was too good to be true!

2 Negatives out of 7 transactions?

RUN AWAY

[Archive]

Posted By: Tom

that these are photos of the one at the Natl BB HOF? I've seen that one but offhand can't remember on the quality of it. It was definitely behind glass. The one Mastro had a while back with the bottom part cut off did quite well I believe...........

[Archive]

Posted By: petecld

It looks like it's in a wood frame with glass so I will assume the glare is from glass.

Even though, I wouldn't buy an item like this without using i-escrow, especially with this guys feedback.

[Archive]

Posted By: David

Personally, I would want to see it in person and I'm not about to make a conclusion from the scans, but I beleive that it may be real. Only one other example of this poster exists-- was at one time owned by Barry Halper and, as many probably know, was auctioned through MastroNet. This poster is bigger than the one on Mastronet, with more picture at the bottom. Halper's didn't have the bottom row of cards that appears in this own. This means that it is not a computer reprint from the MasroNet lot. Due to the unique nature of the poster show, someone has the real poster, and it may be this guy ... My guess is that the gloss is because it is behind glass.

[Archive]

Posted By: Doug Allen

There is an original in the HOF.

There were a handful of full size reproductions made approximately 7 years ago from a photo of the original. Interesting they were made in the PA area.

Key is look for imperfections in the photo and compare to the example in the HOF. Bet they match up.

[Archive]

Posted By: David

Doug, thanks for the info. I take back what I said, and would want/need to see this particular poster in person before making a judgement and certainly before shilling out $20,000 (plus I would need $20,000).

[Archive]

Posted By: Jay Miller

I have talked to a representative at the HOF and they will email back as to how certain imperfections that I mentioned in the ebay lot compare to the original. Thanks to Doug, and Rob Lifson who I spoke to, for pointing out the existence of the original at the Hall and for indicating how they might try to determine if the poster were real (assuming that they were unable to examine it first hand). I will report back as soon as the Hall gets back to me.

[Archive]

Posted By: Julie Vognar

from someone who had actually seen a Old Judge poster like this. I guess it's not suspicious that all the cards are in color--makes for a better display. But still, I would want to know that the poster EXISTS. Feedback is very untypical for such a piece...

[Archive]

Posted By: Julie Vognar

I didn't notice that 12 other people had already responded to the original post...

[Archive]

Posted By: Jay Miller

I just got an email back from Susan MacKay, the Registrar at the HOF. The fault I described to her is a crease that runs below the "E" in the word judge and towards Dan Brouther's leg. According to Susan:

"...the particular imperfection that you described is evident. The horizontal crease extends from the left side of the circle through the right side directly through Dan Brouther's knees......"

The fact that imperfections on the HOF poster are in the same place on this poster makes one very uneasy about this being an original and not a photograph of the HOF original. Does this prove that the poster is not original? NO. But it makes one reluctant to bid without first examining it.

[Archive]

Posted By: David

I suspect that the (near) unanimous opinion is that, even IF it were the real deal, only a fool would blindly send the thousands of $$ to this guy. I don't know about you guys, but I can think of much more fun ways to lose that kind of money.

[Archive]

Posted By: fkw

Very interesting........ Ive seen these posters that have been cut up, but never seen the whole thing. If you look at bottom of auction, there is a "payment instructions", and the seller says "CAPS Antiques, PO BOX 53, Pottstown PA. 19464". So maybe those of you in the PA area could check to see if this place exists?? PO BOX may also be a cover for the scam.... you never know?? The item is way out of my league, but I would never send that type of $$ without escrow or picking the item up in person, especially with the bad feedback, and no experience in vintage cards by seller. Frank

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

I emailed him before this thread started and he emailed me back today saying:

On Tue, 21 May 2002 22:32:52 PDT leonl@flash.net writes:


> Hello,
> I am thinking about bidding on your poster which is on ebay. Can you
> tell me a little more about it. Does it have an actual copyright
> date on it? Where might you have picked up such a nice piece? I am
> only curious because it almost looks too nice. You can check my
> feedback as I am a real bidder.....thanks for your time and please
> let me know. Is there a time we could talk about it on the phone, on
> my dime of course? thanks again......

he said:

It is dated 1888 "Schedules for 1888" is the actual caption. The Poster
belongs to my in-laws. They bought it in 1990 from a deceased Antique
Dealers family. The Prince family. They had a Bakery in Pottstown Pa
and collected for years. We bought many items from them over a 6 1/2 year
period. We also purchased the
very well known "Campbell's Soup" Tin advertising sign from them that is
now pictured in the current issue
of Antique Toy World magazine and sold for $28,000
The poster is in pretty great condition.
Regards,
Chris

[Archive]

Posted By: brian parker

It looks like one of the bidders who has placed multiple bids on this lot is the same bidder who won the auction for that "complete" set of bogus Cracker Jack cards for $7500. In that auction the seller had ZERO feedback and a dead daddy story. I guess some people just never learn.

Brian

[Archive]

Posted By: Jaime Leiderman

40k ....

"On May-24-02 at 06:46:03 PDT, seller added the following information:
I must let all bidders know that the high bidder may pay for and acquire this ULTRA RARE Poster in person after the close of the sale. There have been many e-mails that have voiced concerns over the authenticity of this item, so to put all at ease, yes you (high bidder) can come and inspect, pay for and collect your prize in person! Thanks again and Happy Bidding!


Let's see

[Archive]

Posted By: Brueso

...You can inspect it AFTER you win it- well, let's hope so. It doesn't say anything about you being able to null the auction if you see it and decide it's a reprint.

While this person is ostensibly going to be able to keep more of the $$ by going via E-bay vs. an auction house, they are also probably going to get a smaller purchase price because of the red flags they keep sending up about its authenticity. If they're on the level, you'd think they'd realize that.

[Archive]

Posted By: warshawlaw

At over $40,000, if this bidder is real and if the item is real, it is a real coup for ebay and for the seller who will keep one heck of a lot more $$ than with an auctioneer.

[Archive]

Posted By: Brueso

...must've gotten tired of those Old Judge postcard sets and decided to REALLY make a splash in the Old Judge world. Prior e-bay purchases by this buyer dont seem to be above $1k, let alone $40k.

[Archive]

Posted By: Julie Vognar

.....

[Archive]

Posted By: Julie Vognar

............:p

[Archive]

Posted By: Jay Miller

Now it is getting even stranger. Sandyduncanseye, who hasn't spent over $100 on any recent purchase, is buying this questionable poster for $40,600. This whole thing smells like Fulton Street on a hot afternoon.

[Archive]

Posted By: Julie Vognar

..that HOF's poster has same creases in same places. Also, seller's feedback is really not sterling atALL. I WISH it was real...and I'd love to have a copy, which, for all we know, this already is.

[Archive]

Posted By: Julie Vognar

is very gracious, often giving positive responses to the positive responses he/she (I think she) gets on her own page.

I know a man could buy a fondue set; I just think it less likely...

Maybe Sandyduncanseye's stepmother died, too, and was twice as rich as mine...

IT'S REALLY NONE OF MY BUSINESS!!

[Archive]

Posted By: RBCraik

What an inspired user name! I wish I had thought of that! Positively delightful! Lets see, sammydaviseye? No, doesn't roll off the tongue as well, Tombobbitspart? Nope too obvious. Bradysbrain? Ouch, better not. McCartneysgirlfriendsleg? I like it, but he would sue. I better stop, my antidepressants are kicking in and, oh yes, the Lakers are studs. I realize this isn't terribly to the point, but I felt the need. See you next week Adam.

[Archive]

Posted By: Julie Vognar

they'd put a lit match next to the number of bids. Maybe they decided that was corney.

[Archive]

Posted By: jeff

I seem to recall that they dropped the lit match (for "hot auction") because it encouraged shill bidding.

Also--the lit match NEVER came up when it was a reserve auction. I guess they didn't want to reward people for starting auctions at $0.01, but with a reserve of $3K...thus needing lots of bids just to get to the real "minimum."

Speaking of the old days on eBay, there was a time when you could legally bid on your own auction. (!?!) The idea was similar to reserve auctions -- if you decided you would rather keep the card than sell it for less than $200, you would bid $199. I lost a T206 Green Cobb that way. (And good riddance to the seller who outbid me.)

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

bettyfordsliver, billclintonscigar, leonluckeysnostril

[Archive]

Posted By: Jaime Leiderman

Bid: May-23-02 10:49:54 PDT
Cancelled: May-23-02 12:07:10 PDT

sacoros (0) Cancelled
Explanation: The item is too expensive to sell to a bidder with a 0 rating


hmmmm... it's expensive for a 0 rating bidder, but not for a 9 rating bidder?

1 hour to go and this isn't looking good at all!

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

I think the high bidder is obviously bidding with only one eye - the glass one.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jaime Leiderman

http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=1830824848

[Archive]

Posted By: Kevin Cummings

While I'm sure both of them were quite possibly legitimate despite their sparse feedback records and bidding history, the bids by cshans@aol.com ($186,180) and sandyduncanseye ($151,200) make one pause, don't they?

[Archive]

Posted By: John

also the last bid came in just 7 seconds before the auction was cancelled

[Archive]

Posted By: Tom

I don't remember what the trimmed version in Mastronet's recent auction brought but I believe it was in the 40K range (may be WAY off there). A complete one that is LEGIT in the condition that this one APPEARS to be in would definitely probably be worth the 100K. I'll be curious to see if it winds up in an upcoming (August maybe) Mastronet or someone else's (maybe Hunts since seller is in PA) catalog. If it's legit, thats a better way to get people bidding and who knows what might happen. 19th century is hot stuff...............

[Archive]

Posted By: Keith O'Leary

Now why would the seller end it with 50 seconds left to go? Chanus buys nothing but DVDS (the 186,180.00 bid), Sandy hasn't spent more then 75 dollars on any eBay item yet (the 151,200.00 bid). Are there any rotting fish laying around in Denmark? Keith

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

I am smart enough to have an extra 150k-186k I am smart enough to be more careful than this fishy smelling auction.....I hope we do see it somewhere else so we will know for sure. My thought is it will probably just fade away......like NASA or PRO hopefully will.....regards all

[Archive]

Posted By: Julie Vognar

has recently bought: James Bond movies, Beneath the Planet of the Apes, French Connection II, two very expensive toys: a gun and an airplane (300+ and 400+) and two children's books which he got for a bargain.

My gut feeling is that he's better off than he might
have been...

What a show!

[Archive]

Posted By: Julie Vognar

...

[Archive]

Posted By: Julie Vognar