HOFers without a Topps RC

[Peter_Spaeth]

I suppose since Bowman was owned by Topps it's not that big a deal not to have a Topps RC per sel, but still, several players here (plus Clemens) are without a Topps OR Bowman RC. Those are now highlighted as my message wasn't well worded before.
Puckett
McGriff
Edgar Martinez
Smoltz
Biggio
Thome
Mussina
Pedro Martinez
Rivera
Hoffman
Piazza
Guerrero
Rolen
Beltre
Halladay
Ortiz

[tiger8mush]

Both Puckett and Clemens do have an '84 Fleer Update card, but no Topps until the next season. Clemens debut was May 15 1984 and he started 20 games and threw 133 innings. Puckett was even earlier, May 8 1984 and had 583 plate appearances.

Other 1984 rookies who *did* make the '84 Topps Traded set, along with their MLB debut:
Saberhagen - April 4
Jose Rijo - April 5
Gubicza April 6
Jimmy Key - April 6
Gooden - April 7
Mark Langston - April 7
Alvin Davis - April 11
All debuted a month earlier than Clemens and Puckett. Was timing an issue?

Also notable, Eric Davis debuted May 19, 1984 and would have 200 PA's in 1984, but no '84 TT card.
Hershiser actually debuted in September '83 and pitched the entire '84 season, but no Topps card until '85.

Side note - Severely off topic but why the HECK doesn't Maddux have an '88 Score card!!!???!!!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Why is Griffey's 89 Donruss Baseballl Best considered a RC but Sosa's isn't?

[Peter_Spaeth]

And I should mention Schilling who has only 89 Donruss. And Belle who has only a couple of non-Topps/Bowman RCs in 89.

[Brent G.]

How the hell did Topps miss Clemens AND Puckett in ‘84??

Outside of McGwire Olympic in ‘98, the Gooden ‘84 cards at their peak were probably the hottest of my first go-round in the hobby. He was Jordan … for like 18 months.

I got this Tiffany, got it signed, and slabbed for around $70 total a couple years ago — probably a $750 item in 1985.

[Rich Klein]

Billy Wagner does have a Topps Rc

[Rich Klein]

and depending on your RC description, the pre-1989 traded/update sets having RC's or not there are two variable players

Biggio
Smoltz

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I suppose since Bowman was owned by Topps it's not that big a deal, but still, several players here (plus Clemens) without a Topps OR Bowman RC.
Puckett
McGriff
Edgar Martinez
Smoltz
Biggio
Thome
Mussina
Pedro Martinez
Rivera
Hoffman
Piazza
Wagner (not positive on this one)
Guerrero
Rolen
Beltre
Halladay
Ortiz

Puckett's 84 Fleer Update is an XRC. He has a Topps RC in 1985.
Smotlz has a 1989 Topps RC
Biggio has a 1989 Topps RC
Thome has a 1991 Bowman RC
Rivera has a 1992 Bowman RC
Hoffman has a 1992 Bowman RC
Wagner has a 1994 Topps RC
Guerrero has a 1995 Bowman RC
Rolen has a 1995 Bowman RC

Prior to 1989, the update/traded sets that were not distributed in packs, but in box set form were not considered RC, but were considered XRC.

[Rich Klein]

Peter Stipulated the Bowman history. He was talking about Topps Flagship only

[JustinD]

I would say Barry Larkin.

Probably controversial to someone but I consider the 1986 Sportflics as the true rc.

[Brent G.]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I would say Barry Larkin.

Probably controversial to someone but I consider the 1986 Sportflics as the true rc.

I see no controversy there — gotta give them props for including him when everyone else missed!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Peter Stipulated the Bowman history. He was talking about Topps Flagship only

Right, and with due respect to Beckett, the XRC designation never made sense to me and (for example) 85 Puckett and Clemens are not rookie cards, they are first Topps cards.

Edited list to remove Wagner and to bold the players who don't IMO have Topps/Bowman RCs.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Peter Stipulated the Bowman history. He was talking about Topps Flagship only

Huh? He specifically said "several players without a Topps OR Bowman RC."

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I would say Barry Larkin.

Probably controversial to someone but I consider the 1986 Sportflics as the true rc.

Larkin wasn't in the regular sportflics set. He was only in the Rookies set that was only sold as a boxed set and didn't include veterans. Most don't consider those to meet the definition of true RC.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The post was not worded well. It was originally intended just to list players without a Topps flagship RC, as Rich said. I then noted that that might not mean all that much since Topps owned Bowman, but also noted that some players (now highlighted) don't have EITHER a Topps or Bowman RC (leaving aside the XRC nonsense).

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

Larkin wasn't in the regular sportflics set. He was only in the Rookies set that was only sold as a boxed set and didn't include veterans. Most don't consider those to meet the definition of true RC.

Thus my wording.

I personally consider the first distributed (in any available pack or set) in uniform card of any player as their rookie and would only use xrc for first minor league cards. Personal collecting tastes. I also ignore draft cards in suits or internet single cards like Topps now for rookies. All personal opinion I don’t expect everyone to follow.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Thus my wording.

I personally consider the first distributed (in any available pack or set) in uniform card of any player as their rookie and would only use xrc for first minor league cards. Personal collecting tastes. I also ignore draft cards in suits or internet single cards like Topps now for rookies. All personal opinion I don’t expect everyone to follow.

In the age of the internet I personally would include Topps Now and the like if the player was already on the major league roster. I am obviously in a minority who think the 16 Topps Now Aaron Judges should be deemed RCs. Of course that would upset many apple carts.

[yanksfan09]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

In the age of the internet I personally would include Topps Now and the like if the player was already on the major league roster. I am obviously in a minority who think the 16 Topps Now Aaron Judges should be deemed RCs. Of course that would upset many apple carts.

There's also this Judge (Yankee season ticket club member exclusive redemption/rewards card) featuring the only 2016 Judge card to feature the RC shield/logo.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by yanksfan09

There's also this Judge (Yankee season ticket club member exclusive redemption/rewards card) featuring the only 2016 Judge card to feature the RC shield/logo.

So he has cards with RC logos in consecutive years? That makes no sense LOL. Not a great image of Judge unfortunately or I would be looking for one, was not familiar with it.

[yanksfan09]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

So he has cards with RC logos in consecutive years? That makes no sense LOL. Not a great image of Judge unfortunately or I would be looking for one, was not familiar with it.

Yea,

I don't think most collectors even know the card exists. You had to be a season ticket package holder and through the legacy club you'd accumulate rewards points and redeem various things, this being one of them, came as part of a 3 card set in plastic frame with Gary Sanchez and Jacoby Ellsbury.

Too bad he had to share with Tyler Austin and no good image of his face, but still cool that it features his first game with the back to back homers.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by yanksfan09

Yea,

I don't think most collectors even know the card exists. You had to be a season ticket package holder and through the legacy club you'd accumulate rewards points and redeem various things, this being one of them, came as part of a 3 card set in plastic frame with Gary Sanchez and Jacoby Ellsbury.

Too bad he had to share with Tyler Austin and no good image of his face, but still cool that it features his first game with the back to back homers.

I think we've found Aaron Judge's true rookie card.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I'd go with Topps Now which were available to the collecting public over a very thinly distributed card only given to members of one club. The logo means nothing to me.

[bk400]

This is why I just try to collect a player's first properly licensed card. Keeps it simpler, especially with all the modern varietals. Using that standard, I think Judge's true rookie is his 2013 Bowman.

[BioCRN]

It's my understanding that XRC vs RC things changed in 1989 when update/rookie sets started to become available in packs (1989 Upper Deck) even though some other update/rookie sets were only available in sets.

I'm not sure where the common consensus is at this moment, but last I bothered to get into the weeds 1988 was the last year of the XRC/RC separation.