Early rack packs

[deweyinthehall]

TCDB has images of racks for 1960 and 1961, but nothing for 1962-1965.

Do we know whether Topps produced them in these years?

[jmoran19]

There is one known 62 and 63 rak. I believe I have photo of sell sheets showing for 1964 too.

[Cliff Bowman]

.

[deweyinthehall]

So from all this, I assume there MUST have been racks in 64 and 65.

Thanks for all this great imagery!

I had thought groceries also started in 1966, but I know that's not true. Anyone know when they started?

[Rich Klein]

Way back in the day a friend of mine swore he bought rak packs of final series 1957 cards

[jmoran19]

1964 sell sheet showing a rak pak

[jmoran19]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Way back in the day a friend of mine swore he bought rak packs of final series 1957 cards

Sounds legit, I have this pic of a 57 FB rak

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

Interesting! A total of 36 cards but no gum for 29 cents in 1962-63. But how many cards with gum were included in American nickel packs in 1962-63? In Canadian nickel packs there were only four cards with the gum.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by jmoran19

1964 sell sheet showing a rak pak:

Wow! That's the first time I've seen ten cent packs from 1964! How many cards were in each pack and did the packs include gum?

[jmoran19]

I believe grocery trays started in 1960 or 61, pretty sure I have a 61 sell sheet advertising a tray.

In general 5 cent wax packs thru 1960 had 6 cards, then 61 thru 69 had 5 cards. Late 50’s/1960’s Cello packs usually had 12 cards and no gum thru 1969, exception is the 1969 blue 10 cards 10 cents cello. 1970 baseball cellos jumped up to 33 cards and the first time gum was 8ncluded with cellos was 1970 football.

[tulsaboy]

Man, I love the graphics of the 1963 header. So cool!
kevin

[toppcat]

The NSB Archive book shows a Bowman Stars of NBC TV rak-like pack, circa 1953.

[swarmee]

That's the set that gave us the RC of Christopher (a.k.a. Ronnie) Walken.


1953 Bowman Television and Radio Stars of the NBC - [Base] #58 - Ronnie Walken
Courtesy of COMC.com

[jchcollins]

The only known (to my knowledge) legit unopened ‘63 Rack sold in 2018 at an off-name AH (Morphy’s?) for $9,600.

I want to say in the past that Vintage Breaks on YT has opened ‘57 cellos before, but I don’t recall a ‘57 rack pack.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[GasHouseGang]

The only rack packs I've seen for some of these years are the Christmas repacks.

[tulsaboy]

Those Christmas racks are a total scam. Still being made, every day, and selling on ebay and at local shows to unsuspecting schmucks. They are worthless as unopened items.
kevin

[deweyinthehall]

Has the source of the Christmas raks ever been determined? I know none were issued by Topps - but I recall that their origins may stretch back decades - haven't some big (if well handled) pulls come out of them? Could they have been both 1) a 'legitimate' 3rd party repackage way back in the day (60s-70s) AND 2) a current scam?

[tulsaboy]

People keep trying to "will" the Christmas racks into legitimacy, with all sorts of fanciful claims about particular staples, wear on the rack edges, which cardboard is the "right" cardboard, etc. The reality is that there are absolutely zero contemporary sources that prove that the Christmas racks were packaged close in time to the production of the cards. They appeared out of nowhere with Mark Murphy several years ago, and then have proliferated. The fact that you can now find Christmas racks with Topps, Fleer, Donruss, and even traded cards as late as 1986 is a pretty good indicator that these are still being made today in somebody's basement. Some folks have tried to say that they "clearly remember seeing these decades ago," but nobody can show off any contemporaneous photos, documents, etc. that back up the claim. If they really were legitimate, and if they really were as common as the sheer modern volume of them makes it seem, someone would have been able to show off a Christmas morning photo from 1965 with a handful of them by now. If you're active on the Vintage Wax and Packs Facebook page, where a number of significant unopened collectors hang out, you would be able to follow the conversations that have been ongoing about these racks. The community consensus is that they are fraudulent, and are worth whatever the value might be of the cards that you can see. Thus far, anytime they are opened on camera, there are no "hits" inside the racks. The best cards are always on the fronts and backs, making pretty clear that they are concocted with the intent to defraud.
kevin

[GasHouseGang]

I'm with you Kevin. I didn't mean to imply these Christmas racks are legitimate. In fact, I don't think they are. I was just saying these may be the only "rack packs" we ever see from some of these years because either they are very rare, or never produced.

[tulsaboy]

David,
I get that. I think what makes me sad is that people like you and I who would love to see legitimate 1960's racks know better; the people who buy these generally don't know better, but get sold on the idea that these are a real "find" or "treasure." It's just frustrating when scam artists take advantage of unsuspecting buyers. I think it's what can quickly turn someone off of the hobby.
kevin

[stlcardsfan]

There was an Ebay seller about maybe 10 years ago that had and sold some Xmas rack packs at incredible prices. All different years with plentiful HOFers / stars in view. In his "About Me" section he had a picture of a '52 rack pack with an Eddie Mathews on the back and the story of how he acquired all the packs. Wish I could remember the details.

[jchcollins]

I will agree without going into too much detail that the Christmas Racks are a scam. Perhaps there were a few legit to concept back decades ago, but the mass exploitation and fakery since then has long since destroyed any value behind the idea. It's nice to think about, I'll give you. But just a total scam in the 21st century. Some of the more recent ones it's obvious that Santa Claus was printed on a modern color laser printer, and the plastic and methods used to "seal" the packs certainly was not produced with the technology that existed before 1970.

[62corvette]

In 1973 in Antigo, WI, my wife dragged me against my will into a surplus store where I found about 150 1966 Topps rack packs. They were originally 29 cents each, marked down to 10 cents each. I offered $10 for all 150 and he accepted my offer. In my infinite wisdom I turned around and sold them for $1.50 each, postpaid. Sold about 125 of them and netted a week’s salary. Ultimately kept 7 of them and over the past 5 years, have sold all but two of them.
So, this isn’t speaking to the core of this thread, but I can tell you for sure that 66 rack packs are real.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by GasHouseGang

The only rack packs I've seen for some of these years are the Christmas repacks.

Is that a shot of your collection?

[GasHouseGang]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Is that a shot of your collection?

No, those are from a Mile High Card Company auction. Here is the link:

https://www.milehighcardco.com/excep...-lot53254.aspx

[Balticfox]

So $68.765 per fake rack pack. How many cards are there in each pack?

If the cards were all of vending box quality, perhaps it wasn't a bad purchase by the buyer. How much do commons from each of these years fetch these days?

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by tulsaboy

People keep trying to "will" the Christmas racks into legitimacy, with all sorts of fanciful claims about particular staples, wear on the rack edges, which cardboard is the "right" cardboard, etc.

Their argument is that mine are the "real" fakes because they're from the same source as Mark Murphy's "originals"....

[jmoran19]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

So $68.765 per fake rack pack. How many cards are there in each pack?

If the cards were all of vending box quality, perhaps it wasn't a bad purchase by the buyer. How much do commons from each of these years fetch these days?

12 cards per pack / 4 per section. Racks about as real as kaitlyn Jenner’s boobies

[tulsaboy]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Their argument is that mine are the "real" fakes because they're from the same source as Mark Murphy's "originals"....

Yeah, which is why it's funny to watch the progression on ebay of what years are now being made into these racks. Today I saw one filled with 1988 Topps cards, all Royals on the front. I mean, at the point that someone thinks that making fake racks out of 1988 Topps is a money-making idea, we have truly jumped the proverbial shark on these. Oh well.

kevin

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by jmoran19

12 cards per pack / 4 per section.

So $5.73 per card in that Mile High auction.

[jmoran19]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

So $5.73 per card in that Mile High auction.

I was told there’d be no math on this thread hahaha

[raulus]

Originally Posted by jmoran19

I was told there’d be no math on this thread hahaha

For some reason, the combination of your user name and aversion to math reminded me of this classic Cards fan.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by jmoran19

I was told there’d be no math on this thread hahaha

Give me any excuse and I do math.

[stlcardsfan]

Originally Posted by raulus

For some reason, the combination of your user name and aversion to math reminded me of this classic Cards fan.

Why did that have to be a Cardinal fan LOL