When and how do you decide to have photos PSA-certified?

[Johnphotoman]

Originally Posted by TCMA

Correct. That is what I mean by "on top of the emulsion." A photo with the cursive writing applied on TOP of the emulsion would presumably then be photographed, thereby creating a copy negative, from which multiples could be created with the lettering embedded WITHIN the image itself. If that makes sense.

That makes sense, But at the same time I am more confused. For now lets stay with the Grover Cleveland Alexander, Type 2 News Service Photo.

I did write up this post on Grover Cleveland Alexander, Type 2 News Service Photo, before we started talking about the emulsion and name on top. Therefore I am posting what I wrote before and then I will explain why I am more confused.: Stay with me it is get crazy for me to take it all in: John

The "Summer, 2023 Premier Auction- (Love of the Game Auctions.)

I want to discuss the "Summer, 2023 Premier Auction- (Love of the Game Auctions.) Lot # 329: c.1940's Grover Cleveland Alexander, Type 2 News Service Photo.
https://bid.loveofthegameauctions.co...e?itemid=31181

If I understand the auction, the original photograph, image was from the “Mid-1920's. It is a photo of pitcher Grover Cleveland Alexander at the Cubs spring training facility on Catalina Island in California.

The image or photo for auction Lot # 329: is a 6.5x8.5 print and was developed during the 1940's and served as a "proof" for a company known as National Sports Photos, Inc.

The auction particulars- National Sports Photos offered 8" x 10" glossy photo reproductions via mail order, complete with the athletes name added.” (Lot # 329: c.1940's Grover Cleveland Alexander (HOF) Type 2 News Service Photo (PSA/DNA).”

Pertaining to our conversation, notice lot# 329 has the athlete's name in white, but it is being auctioned off as aType 2 Wire photo. But in most cases this photo would be called a Type 3 or 4. Because of the name on the photo.

It seems that some company used the photo produced by National Sports Photos, Inc.(Lot # 329)- to make a Wire photo, we know this from the back of the photo.

How was the Wire photo made? It was an original photograph from the “Mid-1920's. Which means the wire photo had to be made from the original negative to be a Type 2 photo (lot# 329), otherwise it would be a Type 3-4 photo.

Another problem, but goes with what I have been saying about how you can use the original negative and add a name to a print. Making the photo a Type 2. It is a fact that you do not have to use a second negative to have a name on a photo.

How was the photo of Grover Cleveland Alexander, a type two wire photo, if the name was added to the Wire photo? The name was not on the original photo, or was it. Is it possible the name was on the original negative and print. It would be nice if someone could look that up, it is beyond me how to do that.

But for now let's just say the original photo of Grover Cleveland Alexander did not have the name on it. How did the Wire photo up for auction, then get the name on the photo. And how is it a type 2? Over and over I have been told if a name is on the photo it is a Type 3 or 4.

Since National Sports Photos, Inc. did make the print in the 1940s, and did put names on the photos, the only way they could have done this..is with the original negative, for it to be a type 2. Now thanks to Exhibitman …it seems they did have the original photos. That is if National Sports Photos was affiliated with National, a New York photo company that was one of the three big studios that shot publicity photos. If they shot the photos, they had the negatives.

One problem I see…if someone used the date stamp and markings on the back, they would tell you the image was from the 1940s, not the 1920s. Do you see how relying on marking on the backs of photos does not alway give accurate details about an image on the photo.

To my point, it would appear that National Sports Photos, Inc. had original negatives that they made photo prints from. Meaning the photos I have should be Type 1 or 2, But in almost every case they would be classified as type 3 or 4. The Type system is broken, there has to be a better system for us as collectors to use. I do believe the Type system in use today is not very well received, but for many that's all there is. John.