1952 Topps set question?

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Smarti5051

I hate to hijack another's thread by taking it too far off track, but since you posed direct questions, I will venture to address them. You asked if I own Bitcoin. Yes, I own one coin, which I bought a few years ago, along with 5 Ether. I admit that every ounce of my being rejected the concept of cryptocurrency for a decade before I purchased, and I still think it is a "pet rock." But, I ultimately decided that to be truly diversified, I needed to have a little piece of every asset class just to ensure that I am not the one left behind. If Bitcoin rises to $10M some day and crypto-kids are ruling the world, at least I will be able to continue my current quality of life.

You seem to have a very narrow view of what constitutes an investment, and for you the definition includes some ability to forecast future returns. Ironically, the three investment types you reference (stocks, bonds and real estate) fail your own definition. We can no more predict what Nvidia, P&G and Microsoft will be worth in 10 years than we can a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle. And anybody that believes the real estate market is predictable was not paying attention during the bust cycles in the 80s and late-00s. I have spent enough time in both the stock market and real estate market to know that neither one of them is the least bit predicable, but I invest heavily in both because (like cards and numerous other asset classes), they have performed well over my lifetime and, as previously stated, I want to be invested in what everyone else is investing in so I am not the one left behind when society prospers.

At base, I believe every dollar you spend on an asset that is not intended to be "used up" is on some level an investment. From there, it is up for society to determine whether such purchase was a "good" or "bad" investment, which is usually only knowable with hindsight.

Circling back to your original premise that art purchasers are primarily people who have achieved a level of wealth and simply want to spend their money to "enjoy" a piece of art, I do not believe that to be true. I have talked and read of several art purchasers who purchase notable art pieces, and while enjoyment certainly enters the equation, the expectation that the art will appreciate is usually at the core of their purchasing decision (unless it is a publicity stunt where a guy just wants to burn millions of dollars to eat a banana). I believe that in over 90% of cases where a 1952 Topps Mantle is sold, the purchaser's motivation includes value retention and appreciation. Very few are spending 6 digits completely ambivalent to the asset's future value.

You can speculate or gamble on any number of things with the intention of making a profit. That does not mean you are investing.

Company's stocks are priced based on their expected future profits. If you understand the company's business and estimate their prospects well, you can continue to hold the stock and take future dividends. Once the profits prove out, the stock price will adjust to reflect its underlying profits. For real estate, you can collect rents and earn cash flow. The point is, there is underlying financial value to these assets that you can measure, and that you continue to accrue while you have the asset.

Contrast that with your 52T Mantle. There is nothing that card is doing to earn anything for you. It is just sitting in your closet, or safe deposit box. The only way you can get any financial return on that card is to sell it to somebody else. There is no Plan B.

You can make money on cards, for sure. A lot of people on this board have made a lot of money buying and selling cards. Good for them. I hope to eventually sell my cards for a profit. But just understand that if you are buying cards hoping to sell them for more later, you are not investing, you are speculating.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

You can speculate or gamble on any number of things with the intention of making a profit. That does not mean you are investing.

Company's stocks are priced based on their expected future profits. If you understand the company's business and estimate their prospects well, you can continue to hold the stock and take future dividends. Once the profits prove out, the stock price will adjust to reflect its underlying profits. For real estate, you can collect rents and earn cash flow. The point is, there is underlying financial value to these assets that you can measure, and that you continue to accrue while you have the asset.

Contrast that with your 52T Mantle. There is nothing that card is doing to earn anything for you. It is just sitting in your closet, or safe deposit box. The only way you can get any financial return on that card is to sell it to somebody else. There is no Plan B.

You can make money on cards, for sure. A lot of people on this board have made a lot of money buying and selling cards. Good for them. I hope to eventually sell my cards for a profit. But just understand that if you are buying cards hoping to sell them for more later, you are not investing, you are speculating.

Less than half of publicly traded stocks pay dividends. Would you say then that over half are not investments and the buyers are just speculating?

[ALR-bishop]

If some years back you had decided to buy stock in Eron and Worldcom and a 52 Mantle you made at least one good choice

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

Less than half of publicly traded stocks pay dividends. Would you say then that over half are not investments and the buyers are just speculating?

They are still investments. Their pricing is based on intrinsic valuation. There is underlying income there although the company reinvests it, rather than paying it out. The fact they don't pay dividends makes them riskier. Many people who buy and sell stock are speculating for sure.

[campyfan39]

Selfishly, I wish people would not buy vintage cards for investment because it takes cards out of circulation and drives up prices for pure collectors like me.

I would be hesitant to invest in cards for my kids or grandchildren, unless they were really into baseball. I would invest in land to help them build on one day. If I had already done that, I would use my wealth to do things with them and give them things they loved now, while I am alive.
Just my take.