NonSports Forum

Net54baseball.com
Welcome to Net54baseball.com. These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. There is a separate section for Buying, Selling and Trading - the B/S/T area!! If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it. . Contact the moderator at leon@net54baseball.com should you have any questions or concerns. When you click on links to eBay on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. Enjoy!
Net54baseball.com
Net54baseball.com
ebay GSB
T206s on eBay
Babe Ruth Cards on eBay
t206 Ty Cobb on eBay
Ty Cobb Cards on eBay
Lou Gehrig Cards on eBay
Baseball T201-T217 on eBay
Baseball E90-E107 on eBay
T205 Cards on eBay
Baseball Postcards on eBay
Goudey Cards on eBay
Baseball Memorabilia on eBay
Baseball Exhibit Cards on eBay
Baseball Strip Cards on eBay
Baseball Baking Cards on eBay
Sporting News Cards on eBay
Play Ball Cards on eBay
Joe DiMaggio Cards on eBay
Mickey Mantle Cards on eBay
Bowman 1951-1955 on eBay
Football Cards on eBay

Go Back   Net54baseball.com Forums > Net54baseball Main Forum - WWII & Older Baseball Cards > Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
  #11  
Old 12-12-2024, 06:38 AM
Exhibitman's Avatar
Exhibitman Exhibitman is offline
Ad@m W@r$h@w
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beautiful Downtown Burbank
Posts: 13,916
Default

One of the problems inherent in this sort of analysis is that it is inductive: we generalize from specific items to the entire issue. That works to a limited extent when there are limited options. Ted's logic on the issues can be broken down as follows:

I collected the rounded corner, glossier, thicker cards from bags of bread in 1947.

I did not collect the square cornered cards on thinner stock from bags of bread in 1947.

Therefore, the latter were not produced in 1947.

You see the error? Putting it in a different context, I didn't collect 1972 Topps high numbers in 1972, not because they were not produced in 1972 but because I was seven and they weren't available in the two or three candy stores where my parents took me to buy cards in 1972. I got my first ones in 1977 when my aunt in DC sent me a shoebox full of cards she found in an antique store, and they were mostly 1972 Topps and mostly final series 1972 Topps (having multiple Carew, Traded and Awards cards in 1977 in my neighborhood in Encino CA in 1977, not a bad thing).

One thing I like about the hypothesis that Bond licensed the cards from Aarco rather than owning the IP on them is that it fits with the physical evidence that allows for other issues and variations that Aarco licensed, like the 2x sided perforated sheets that were made under the Elgee name. Similar to the many brand variations on the Mendelsohn cards in the 'teens.

Among the variations is the possibility that Bond specified what it wanted for its cards: rounded corners and a specific card stock and finish. My very first books were self-published before on-demand publishing existed, so I had to have them printed and then sell them myself at retail. I sat down with the printer and decided on the parameters of the product: the binding, the paper, etc. That's how printers know what to print. They produce proofs (the uncut cover proof from my first printed book is in a frame at my office), have the customers review them, and nail down the approved specs before they run the items. Printers can handle different stocks and finishes, so it seems reasonable that Aarco could make both cards that are intended for the bread bags and cards that are not, at the same approximate time, depending in the customer's desires. It also allows for the stock variation in the Festberg find: different specs. Rather than allowing for this possibility, Ted went with the exclusive conclusion he favored.

The Cooper thing is another inductive leap that never sat well with me. Cooper with Cincy, that's an anachronism for a 1947 card, but Cooper with NYG is not. An earlier potential does not rule out a later one, only vice versa does.

Also, I brought to Ted's attention that there are movie stars with the same rounded corner-different stock. He was surprised to hear this. Again, he never saw them so he was unaware of them. Understandable since we were just kids when we got our various product cards out of the bags. I never knew there were two editions of the Kellogg's ATG 3D cards, because I got mine from Danish Go Rounds (my mother's idea of a breakfast) in 1972 and had never seen the 1970 Rold Gold pretzel cards. Why? Because we didn't buy Rold Gold pretzels in 1970. Visual Panographics made both sets using the Xograph technology and licensed them to different companies at different times with just the copyright dates changed.

Now, before anyone leaps to Ted's defense because he isn't here to defend his positions himself and I didn't challenge him when he was alive, a word of explanation is in order. Ted was aggressively adamant about his analysis, and I (and other collectors who discussed it back in the day) did not consider it to be a worthwhile use of time and energy to battle with him over these rather arcane issues. When dealing with Ted, the least disruptive course was to inject facts when possible and not engage in the melees that invariably followed flat-out telling him he was wrong.

On the issue of the Standard Catalog, a bit of context may be useful. The catalog was put together by Bob Lemke using the work product of "principal contributors". Like me. Around 20 years ago, I got sick of the same BS in the Exhibit card listings year after year and Bob offered to let me try to fix it. The way Bob did it, pre-digital, was to send out a printout of the listing and you would annotate it and send it back. I fixed a lot of problems with the listings and added in a lot of variations, but my work was incomplete and sometimes inaccurate. That's the nature of the beast: we all try to build on and refine the work of our predecessors (shout out to Elwood "Woody" Scharf here). There was also a limit to what the editors of the catalog would or could fit into the header, so the catalog was not a place for nuanced discussions. Nobody who was willing to do the work knew anything more, so my version got into print and stayed in print. My work with the issues in my Exhibit book was partly done to better document and explain these cards. In other words, what has become 'canon' with collectors via the Standard Catalog is merely the collective work of collectors like me. It isn't fixed, it isn't divinely inspired, so it isn't the final word on any subject. There is only one final word on a subject, and we all know who has it: our wives.
__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true.

https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/

Or not...

Last edited by Exhibitman; 12-12-2024 at 06:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
 



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bond Bread again. Johnphotoman Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 6 02-06-2022 08:28 PM
Bond Bread Tin incugator Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 28 11-29-2021 09:33 AM
Bond Bread or Bond Homogenize Bread Johnphotoman Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 7 10-24-2021 04:53 PM
SGC and Bond Bread Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 15 03-04-2006 05:32 PM
1947 bond bread Archive Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions 21 06-21-2005 07:27 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:48 PM.


ebay GSB