Ohtani CARDS are Mostly UNDERVALUED

[G1911]

Originally Posted by jboosted92

yup...

Judge isnt even a top 5 yankee of all time ( yet) and people comparing him to what Ohtani has done on Mound and Batters box ( and now on base )...

its pure stupidity, like saying Montana was better than Brady...

STOP..lol

WAR
Judge - 51.2
Ohtani - 42.5

They are both incredibly good, but the dichotomy where one must be put down to lift the other one doesn't make much sense to me. Who knows where they will end up, but both are rare talents who are delivering astounding performances to enjoy.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

WAR
Judge - 51.2
Ohtani - 42.5

They are both incredibly good, but the dichotomy where one must be put down to lift the other one doesn't make much sense to me. Who knows where they will end up, but both are rare talents who are delivering astounding performances to enjoy.

And 15 of that 42 is pitching, meaning his batting WAR is 27.5. Not sure why it isn't higher? But it's striking. Barely more than half of Judge's.

[packs]

I’m surprised Judge doesn’t get more love from the vintage crowd. Right now he’s as close as it gets to the golden slugger of old, who could mash and hit 300 at the same time. Feared by every pitcher on earth. Putting up 130+ RBIs. Those are golden age Foxx, Gehrig, Greenberg numbers.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I’m surprised Judge doesn’t get more love from the vintage crowd. Right now he’s as close as it gets to the golden slugger of old, who could mash and hit 300 at the same time. Feared by every pitcher on earth. Putting up 130+ RBIs. Those are golden age Foxx, Gehrig, Greenberg numbers.

Not only that, there is absolutely nothing not to like about him.

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by packs

I’m surprised Judge doesn’t get more love from the vintage crowd. Right now he’s as close as it gets to the golden slugger of old, who could mash and hit 300 at the same time. Feared by every pitcher on earth. Putting up 130+ RBIs. Those are golden age Foxx, Gehrig, Greenberg numbers.

He should get love as a player. He's an oldschool stoic giant who does everything well, though his D is starting to decline.

As a card collector he's in the thick of the current era card market being a guy who has over 2000 "rookie card" issues in 2017 (counting all variations). Want a low-number? Tons of options. Auto? Tons. Low-number and auto? Tons.

The pure saturation era of obvious stars kinda kills excitement of having a RC of some guys even if there's still decent value attached to it. Guys don't have a "cool" RC, they have dozens of them.

Though he's not a star (except to Cubs fans), in 2014 Kyle Hendricks got his RC...2014 Topps Heritage High Number. It's his only RC and there's not 100 different borders or an auto...just his card. It's not rare card, but it's a rare occurrence in this era to only have 1 card for your RC.

[bbcard1]

I got a few of his Japanese issues.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And 15 of that 42 is pitching, meaning his batting WAR is 27.5. Not sure why it isn't higher? But it's striking. Barely more than half of Judge's.

Let's start by saying, until this Year Judge was CLEARLY the better hitter. This year is very hard to call. But part of the difference over their careers is because DWAR is factored into batting WAR and as a DH his DWAR contributes nothing.

O-WAR to O-War is 46.2 to 27.3 but now factor in plate appearances. Judge has around 800 more so that's a full season advantage over Ohtani.

[frankbmd]

Granted baseball is a game to be seen and a game of numbers (historically counting numbers), but if I asked someone which player of any 2 he liked better and he asked me what their DWARs were before answering, I would withdraw my question and think he was foolish.

The reliance on statistically manufactured ratings developed 60-80 years post mortem doesn't float my boat. Generational comparisons are also inherently flawed. The game is still played with bats on a diamond, but the game in 1920 is not the same game as in 2020.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Granted baseball is a game to be seen and a game of numbers (historically counting numbers), but if I asked someone which player of any 2 he liked better and he asked me what their DWARs were before answering, I would withdraw my question and think he was foolish.

The reliance on statistically manufactured ratings developed 60-80 years post mortem doesn't float my boat. Generational comparisons are also inherently flawed. The game is still played with bats on a diamond, but the game in 1920 is not the same game as in 2020.

+1,000,000 on this ^^^^^ Well said

[bk400]

So I leave Ohtani to focus on the Mets for three days, and now the guy is now at 53-55? With three more games left against the Rockies, he might end up closer to 60-60 than 50-50 by the time the regular season is over. It's staggering.

I will root for Lindor to win the NL MVP, but from a clinical, dispassionate standpoint, I am begrudgingly sympathetic to the argument that Ohtani should win it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Ohtani will be unanimous. He may get every second place vote too. Meanwhile, Judge with 55, what a season.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And 15 of that 42 is pitching, meaning his batting WAR is 27.5. Not sure why it isn't higher? But it's striking. Barely more than half of Judge's.

Because, quite frankly, Ohtani's first three seasons as a hitter were nothing special. He hit .190 in 2020.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Because, quite frankly, Ohtani's first three seasons as a hitter were nothing special. He hit .190 in 2020.

With a 0 WAR. You wonder how, even in a short season, that was possible for such a great player.

[bk400]

https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2021/3...review-two-way

Article above written in March 2021, before the start of Ohtani's 4-year reign of terror, but after his struggles in 2020. Sounds like he and the Angels put a lot of thought into his regimen. Interestingly, they took away restrictions on his workload, allowing him to actually do more two-way stuff rather than less.

He also started squatting heavy again and came in at 225 pounds in spring training in 2021. I'd imagine that helped a lot, especially after his 2019 knee surgery.

As an aside, Ohtani is still listed right now at 210 lbs, but he looks like he's a lot bigger than that when you see him standing next to Bryce Harper -- who's also listed at 210:

https://x.com/MLB/status/1811061670493511797/photo/1

[packs]

I feel like getting big is the worst possible thing a pitcher could do. If he's going to DH, sure, get huge. But can you think of a single monster bodied pitcher who had any kind of sustained success?

I remember the year Syndergaard showed up at Mets spring training looking like Bane. Everyone lauded his workout routine and all the press was expecting a huge season out of him. Instead he got hurt, missed the next three seasons, came back a shell of himself and was out of the game at 30 years old, having won 59 total games.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by packs

I feel like getting big is the worst possible thing a pitcher could do. If he's going to DH, sure, get huge. But can you think of a single monster bodied pitcher who had any kind of sustained success?

I remember the year Syndergaard showed up at Mets spring training looking like Bane. Everyone lauded his workout routine and all the press was expecting a huge season out of him. Instead he got hurt, missed the next three seasons, came back a shell of himself and was out of the game at 30 years old, having won 59 total games.

I would say if he focused on lower body it's a good thing even as a pitcher. I would agree if he's bulking up upper body though.

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by packs

I feel like getting big is the worst possible thing a pitcher could do. If he's going to DH, sure, get huge. But can you think of a single monster bodied pitcher who had any kind of sustained success?

I remember the year Syndergaard showed up at Mets spring training looking like Bane. Everyone lauded his workout routine and all the press was expecting a huge season out of him. Instead he got hurt, missed the next three seasons, came back a shell of himself and was out of the game at 30 years old, having won 59 total games.

Wouldnt you say Roger Clemens bulked up? His head enlarged 3x it seemed.