OT -- Information about Bra-Mac Photo Cards...

[Archive]

Posted By: Brad Green

I acquired the Grove card below just a few days ago. I have never seen these cards before. The person I bought it from called it a Bra-Mac Photo and said it was made in the 1960's. The other cards that the person had were all of 1930's players. The card measures 3 1/2 by 4 15/16 and is glossy with a blank back. Can anyone provide more information about these cards? My specific questions are:

(1) Can anyone pinpoint the year that they were made?
(2) Who is Bra-Mac? (I would guess that Bra stands for Brace, but I don't know for sure.)

Thanks for your help!

[Archive]

Posted By: davidcycleback

I beleive these were issued by Chicago photographer George Brace. Don't know who is Mac, but perhaps he was a partner in the deal. I don't recall when they were issued, but 1960s sounds reasonable. I don't beleive the year of issue is known for any of these types of Brace/Jim Rowe/other photos and photo postcards, and they may have been sold sold for more than one year. They were sold commercially, often via mail order, so are not unlike baseball cards.

[Archive]

Posted By: Paul

Larry Fritsch has been advertising hundreds of these in his last few catalogs. They appear to be photos with a nameplate glued to the bottom. That's all I know.

[Archive]

Posted By: Brad Green

I got this one from Frisch. I guess he had them in storage for 35 years and has decided to sell them.

The front of the card is smooth. It looks like Brace (or whoever) placed the red name plate on the photograph, and then took a picture of the photograph and nameplate together. It seems like there would have been a better way in the 1960's to put a player's name on a picture...

[Archive]

Posted By: Gilbert Maines

That name tag on the "card" looks remarkably like the old Dymo plastic labels which were everywhere in the '60s.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Drum

Can't help you any with this particular issue but I have been buying Rowe and Brace PCs for years to use to send away in the mail for autographs. I have not ordered in a couple of years but last time I did so I believe it was from Mary Brace or Jim Rowe.

They have an extensive list that lists dufferent poses and teams for the players.

[Archive]

Posted By: Rich Klein

But if anyone has better information; I'd be happy to add to our player list and change the years in our Data Base.

Rich

[Archive]

Posted By: davidcycleback

For his regular 8x10" photo, Brace usually stamped his name and Chicago address on back. Most of the 50s-60s subjects were shot by him, though many of the 1930s and earlier images were shot by George Burke and others. Burke had a distinct style, so his images are usually easy to identify. For those who don't know, Burke and Brace were business partners and Burke first hired Brace as an assistant when Brace was a kid.

Burke stamped his name only on his vintage 1930s-40s photos, so these are easy to identify as his.

[Archive]

Posted By: Tim Newcomb

These were issued around 1973-75. When I was a teenager and just getting into older material, I bought a bunch of them (mostly Reds) because that was what I could afford. They were very cheap and I loved the sharp colorized photos. Obviously they are from the Burke-Brace archive of negatives.

I believe I bought them directly from Brace, probably through an SCD ad. He had a ton of them and I wish I had bought more. I don't remember them being called Bra-Mac at that time.

When I discovered ebay and returned to the hobby (1999) I was really surprised that so few of them were around. (Naturally Fritsch would have tons at high prices.)

I doubt there is a complete checklist out there anywhere, but I know the number issued ran to several hundred.

Anything else you want to know, feel free to email me and I'll try to help--

Tim

[Archive]

Posted By: Stephen Mitchell

After a bit of searching, the February 1974 and March 1974 issues of SPORTS SCOOP reveal some early information on the Bra-Mac cards. George Brace ran full page advertisements in which he introduced "The First Full-Color Picture Set of the 1930's!"

The first series of 8 cards (for $3) included Ed Brandt (1932 Braves), Bill Sweeney (1931 Red Sox), Earl Whitehill (1936 Senators), Fred Ostermueller (1934 Red Sox), Chuck Klein (1935 Cubs), Tommy Thevenow (1936 Reds), Clyde Shoun (1938 Cardinals) and Les Mallon (1934 Braves). Buyers of the first series were guaranteed the opportunity of purchasing the complete set at no increase in price. The complete set was said to have every team and every year in full color, from 1931 to 1939.

Another full page ad with different text ran in the April 1974 SPORTS SCOOP. It offered series 2 through 5 (which were checklisted) as well as series one for $3.00 each.

By the May '74 issue, Brace was offering the first 12 series (96 cards) of his proposed "288 picture set". In addition, OTHER sets and single cards were offered: 37 Baseball Hall of Famers in 3-1/2" X 5" or 5" X 7" size; 6 oldtime team photos (5" X 7") including 1889 Boston, 1889 Philadelphia, 1898 New York, 1898 Louisville, 1914 Braves and 1915 Red Sox; and 30 Groups cards in both postcard and 5" X 7" formats. The May issue contains the first mention of BRA-MAC. It continued to use George Brace and his Chicago address but with BRA-MAC added.

Finally, I should add that I have seen a checklist of the 288 cards somewhere. But where? The guides I most frequently use (2003 Krause Standard Catalog and 2005 Beckett Almanac) do not list this set; rather, just a smaller Bra-Mac (or Bramac) set of 1933 National League All-Stars (in black & white). A guess would be that Krause (possibly Beckett) listed the 288 in an earlier edition.

Even given the obvious inflation of our currency with $3 in 1974 being more like $12-15 today, I wish I had made more than a token purchase. Over the years I have seen just a few of these cards and have never laid eyes on Bra-Mac's Hall of Fame and team photos or ANY 5" X 7" format cards.

[Archive]

Posted By: Brad Green

I guess that pretty much nails them down to 1974, with the possibility that some of the later series could have been issued in 1975.

Do the ads mention anything that gives you a hint as to who the "Mac" is in Bra-Mac?

Thanks for the information, guys! You have been a big help!

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan K

As far as I know, The "Mac" in Bra-Mac is for McCarthy....

[Milt Herbert]

The 1974 Bra-Mac 1930s set consists of 288 colorized photo cards. The photos are George Brace photos and colorized by Bill MacAlister. Hence the name Bra-Mac. Many years ago I visited Bill MacAlister at his home near Chicago and he colorized some photos while I was visiting him. There were quite a few Bra-Mac sets that were produced and sold between 1974 and 1976. Examples are the 1930's Bra-Mac Colorized Bonus Photos (I own 8 of the 12). There was a 1976 Colorized Hall of Fame Set of 156 (which I own), a 1976 Colorized New York Yankee set of 75 (which I own), an Informal Group Colorized set of 144 (which I own). There were many other sets which I do not own or have partials of such as a 1940s set of 160, Brooklyn Dodgers set, a St. Louis Browns set, a St. Louis Cardinals set, a Philadelphia A's set, a Head & Action set of 12 from 1975 (I own 9 of the 12). By the way, I am still missing 24 of the 1930's set.

[jingram058]

There are over 200 Bra-Mac photos on eBay right now. The vast majority for sale by "fritschscardauctions" at 2 to 3 times what other sellers are asking. Looks like they are copies of photos with Dymo labels applied to the originals.

[Milt Herbert]

Yes, they are copies of George Brace black and white photos that will colorized by Bill MacAlister. I went to Bill's house and saw how he did the colorization. He had files cabinets of a large quantity of George Brace postcards. They were in a partnership together in doing the Bra-Mac sets.

[whiteymet]

Hi Gang:

What can anyone tell me about a Bra-Mac card in B&W?

See the Kelleher below side by side color/B&W same pose different cropping.

Are other B&W's with the Dymo labels known?

[VintageLEV]

I recently acquired a collection that included the entire 288 card set (plus the 12 Bra-Mac Bonus cards) still in the original envelopes in which they were sent. I compiled a checklist including the collation of each envelop and post mark date. I offered the checklist to TCDB however while they include numerous "photo pack" images in their database they concluded the set does not constitute cards as is it printed on photo paper.

[Leon]

Old thread, go Archives! Just don't get sued...(inside joke)

That's interesting on these photo cards. There isn't a lot of difference between a photo and a card, sometimes. I am a card guy though, so everything looks like a card to me!

Originally Posted by VintageLEV

I recently acquired a collection that included the entire 288 card set (plus the 12 Bra-Mac Bonus cards) still in the original envelopes in which they were sent. I compiled a checklist including the collation of each envelop and post mark date. I offered the checklist to TCDB however while they include numerous "photo pack" images in their database they concluded the set does not constitute cards as is it printed on photo paper.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by VintageLEV

I recently acquired a collection that included the entire 288 card set (plus the 12 Bra-Mac Bonus cards) still in the original envelopes in which they were sent. I compiled a checklist including the collation of each envelop and post mark date. I offered the checklist to TCDB however while they include numerous "photo pack" images in their database they concluded the set does not constitute cards as is it printed on photo paper.

There is no logic involved in what TCDB will allow to be posted.

I was denied adding m114s even though they have some m114s listed as Baseball Magazine photos. They gave me the same "they are not cards" excuse, and when I pointed out that they already had m114s listed (and had allowed me to scans to their listings), and have other similar "not cards" listed, they told me those listing were a mistake.

I deleted my account.

I appreciate the concept of what they claim to be trying to do, but since my collection does not fit within their definition of "cards" besides their as yet uncorrected "mistake" listing, they have no interest in any knowledge I may possess.

I hope I don't get sued by the Trading Card Data Bruce(s).

Doug

[Leon]

I would have thought having an ACC number might sway them. I haven't really used their site but others have said good stuff about it.

Fred- That is a neat black and white Bra-Mac. Those kinds of things don't surprise me anymore as they are usually only printing errors. We have all seen them over the years. Then too, sometimes a black and white set can be it's own, ie: E97 black and whites (not proofs)

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

There is no logic involved in what TCDB will allow to be posted.

I was denied adding m114s even though they have some m114s listed as Baseball Magazine photos. They gave me the same "they are not cards" excuse, and when I pointed out that they already had m114s listed (and had allowed me to scans to their listings), and have other similar "not cards" listed, they told me those listing were a mistake.

I deleted my account.

I appreciate the concept of what they claim to be trying to do, but since my collection does not fit within their definition of "cards" besides their as yet uncorrected "mistake" listing, they have no interest in any knowledge I may possess.

I hope I don't get sued by the Trading Card Data Bruce(s).

Doug

[Spike]

Originally Posted by VintageLEV

I recently acquired a collection that included the entire 288 card set (plus the 12 Bra-Mac Bonus cards) still in the original envelopes in which they were sent. I compiled a checklist including the collation of each envelop and post mark date. I offered the checklist to TCDB however while they include numerous "photo pack" images in their database they concluded the set does not constitute cards as is it printed on photo paper.

I'm happy to post about that set on SABR's baseball card blog, if you're willing to share your work on checklist. That audience should appreciate checklist details, in particular any shots of those original envelopes! DM if that sounds good and we'll work out details?

[rhettyeakley]

TCDB is a useful site sometimes BUT they steal images and info from wherever they can find them without giving any credit. Not sure why do that but they do.

They went to my website and essentially stole all the images I have of my Zeenut collection and have added them to their site without ever letting me know. 🤣

I honestly do not like uploading images on my site anymore because of it.

I realized this when I was looking at a card on TCDB and said “wow that looks just like my copy” …then realized they had stolen (likely) a thousand+ images.

Kind of a shitty thing to do actually.

[Spike]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

TCDB is a useful site sometimes BUT they steal images and info from wherever they can find them without giving any credit. Not sure why do that but they do.

They went to my website and essentially stole all the images I have of my Zeenut collection and have added them to their site without ever letting me know. 🤣

I honestly do not like uploading images on my site anymore because of it.

I realized this when I was looking at a card on TCDB and said “wow that looks just like my copy” …then realized they had stolen (likely) a thousand+ images.

Kind of a shitty thing to do actually.

Was that for a gallery like this 1919 set?

https://www.tcdb.com/ViewCard.cfm/si...e-Nut-NNO-Ally

If so, a mix of people uploaded those images, including these members. Each image links to the person who uploaded it.

https://www.tcdb.com/Profile.cfm/styxscottii
https://www.tcdb.com/Profile.cfm/ComposerMike

I believe individuals submit all card images to TCDB, so if you'd prefer cards that belong to you are removed, try asking TCDB to strike them using a page's "See any inaccuracies?" link. You might also ask in their forum what options exist.

https://www.tcdb.com/Forums.cfm

[DW03]

Originally Posted by Archive

Posted By: Stephen Mitchell

After a bit of searching, the February 1974 and March 1974 issues of SPORTS SCOOP reveal some early information on the Bra-Mac cards. George Brace ran full page advertisements in which he introduced "The First Full-Color Picture Set of the 1930's!"

The first series of 8 cards (for $3) included Ed Brandt (1932 Braves), Bill Sweeney (1931 Red Sox), Earl Whitehill (1936 Senators), Fred Ostermueller (1934 Red Sox), Chuck Klein (1935 Cubs), Tommy Thevenow (1936 Reds), Clyde Shoun (1938 Cardinals) and Les Mallon (1934 Braves). Buyers of the first series were guaranteed the opportunity of purchasing the complete set at no increase in price. The complete set was said to have every team and every year in full color, from 1931 to 1939.

Another full page ad with different text ran in the April 1974 SPORTS SCOOP. It offered series 2 through 5 (which were checklisted) as well as series one for $3.00 each.

By the May '74 issue, Brace was offering the first 12 series (96 cards) of his proposed "288 picture set". In addition, OTHER sets and single cards were offered: 37 Baseball Hall of Famers in 3-1/2" X 5" or 5" X 7" size; 6 oldtime team photos (5" X 7") including 1889 Boston, 1889 Philadelphia, 1898 New York, 1898 Louisville, 1914 Braves and 1915 Red Sox; and 30 Groups cards in both postcard and 5" X 7" formats. The May issue contains the first mention of BRA-MAC. It continued to use George Brace and his Chicago address but with BRA-MAC added.

Finally, I should add that I have seen a checklist of the 288 cards somewhere. But where? The guides I most frequently use (2003 Krause Standard Catalog and 2005 Beckett Almanac) do not list this set; rather, just a smaller Bra-Mac (or Bramac) set of 1933 National League All-Stars (in black & white). A guess would be that Krause (possibly Beckett) listed the 288 in an earlier edition.

Even given the obvious inflation of our currency with $3 in 1974 being more like $12-15 today, I wish I had made more than a token purchase. Over the years I have seen just a few of these cards and have never laid eyes on Bra-Mac's Hall of Fame and team photos or ANY 5" X 7" format cards.

Was able to pick up the first series of 8 today, seems pretty rare nowadays to find them together complete.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by Spike

Was that for a gallery like this 1919 set?

https://www.tcdb.com/ViewCard.cfm/si...e-Nut-NNO-Ally

If so, a mix of people uploaded those images, including these members. Each image links to the person who uploaded it.

https://www.tcdb.com/Profile.cfm/styxscottii
https://www.tcdb.com/Profile.cfm/ComposerMike

I believe individuals submit all card images to TCDB, so if you'd prefer cards that belong to you are removed, try asking TCDB to strike them using a page's "See any inaccuracies?" link. You might also ask in their forum what options exist.

https://www.tcdb.com/Forums.cfm

I hadn't seen your reply to me from July until this got brought back to the top.

Yeah almost their entire Zeenut image database was lifted from my own site StarsOfTheDiamond.com which I mostly use as a checklist for when I am at shows to check my current copy against any I may see as possible upgrades.

I get that I "put them out there" and people can steal whatever they want...but it still feels pretty shitty to have a "for profit" website steal images without even consulting with me.

If there was any doubt the following card is the only example of this card known to exist (somewhat recent find) that was on the "theoretical checklist" until this example was found...


My website:
https://www.starsofthediamond.com/17zeefournier.jpg

TCDB:
https://www.tcdb.com/ViewCard.cfm/si...er?PageIndex=1

I have completely stopped updating my site because of all this as they essentially stole my hard work.

[Sleepless72]

I created a TCDb account and have been adding sets for a few years now. The whole cards vs. photos argument they've made in the past doesn't make sense to me, so I post... whatever... and let them tell me why it shouldn't count. Most of my checklists are still up there, so that's something. It really should be baseball cards and related items, and I think that anything released by Topps that's not clothing should be fair game for checklisting; by extension, anything that resembles in its format something that Topps produced should also be eligible.

TCDb may or may not realize it, but it's standing on the precipice of greatness. I don't think anyone else has so comprehensive a site available for free (and yes, it is free, though you can pay for a version that doesn't have ads, which I think is fair), and the hobby is worse for not having things like the Standard Catalog to flip through.

I do think they might be rethinking some of what should and shouldn't be allowed on the site as I've seen a few items appear recently that might not have made the cut before (Jay Publishing, Sportservice), so there's hope that the TCDb will continue to improve in the coming years. Maybe they'll eventually allow folks to upload checklists for the 8" x 10" publicity photos that teams used to publish and distribute.

As for the Bra-Mac (the reason I popped into this discussion in the first place), if anybody wants to send me any Bra-Mac checklists, I'm happy to upload them to the site. They may take them down... but then again, maybe not. (And I'd love it if you donated some sample photos to the cause, as I only have a few Pirates that I can scan from the 1930s set.)

By the way, this is my first post here, so, uh, go easy on me...!

Chris

[John1941]

Welcome, Chris.

As someone who uses both sites (I'm TCDB's Name-That-Set all-time champion), I appreciate the work you're doing with TCDB and hope you find Net54 congenial.

[cubman1941]

Chris,

I also appreciate your work on TCDB. I use TCDB extensively and it is my "go-to" site when I am looking for a check list.

Jim

[Sleepless72]

Thanks for the welcome, gentlemen. Net54 is amazing; I've been lurking here for several months. I probably can't afford most of the cards shown here, but I've enjoyed drooling over them from this side of the screen. "If I were a rich man...."

Yeah, any checklists that you feel should appear there but aren't able to post yourself, just let me know. (Lately, I've been working on the slew of Pirates team-issued sets, so expect a post or three hundred on that topic eventually.)