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Reload this Page Poll - Greatest Living Player
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View Poll Results: Who is the greatest living player today?
Ronald Acuna Jr 1 0.24%
Johnny Bench 16 3.85%
Mookie Betts 0 0%
Barry Bonds 116 27.88%
Steve Carlton 0 0%
Roger Clemens 2 0.48%
Ken Griifey Jr 38 9.13%
Rickey Henderson 27 6.49%
Randy Johnson 3 0.72%
Sandy Koufax 52 12.50%
Greg Maddux 7 1.68%
Pedro Martinez 5 1.20%
Shohei Ohtani 18 4.33%
Albert Pujols 16 3.85%
Cal Ripken Jr 5 1.20%
Alex Rodriguez 0 0%
Pete Rose 39 9.38%
Nolan Ryan 34 8.17%
Mike Schmidt 17 4.09%
Ichiro Suzuki 7 1.68%
Mike Trout 1 0.24%
Other 12 2.88%
Voters: 416. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 06-23-2024, 08:11 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
Gr.eg McCl.@y
 
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Originally Posted by Gorditadogg View Post
Bonds hit 760 home runs. Without PEDs he might have hit 380. Sosa hit 600, I doubt he would have made 300. The effect on their career numbers was huge.
The story is that Bonds began using steroids in 2000. Through 1999, he had 445 home runs.
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  #2  
Old 06-23-2024, 08:19 PM
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Ben North
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The story is that Bonds began using steroids in 2000. Through 1999, he had 445 home runs.
With all due respect facts are not part of this thread.
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  #3  
Old 06-23-2024, 08:39 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
Gr.eg McCl.@y
 
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With all due respect facts are not part of this thread.
I've noticed facts are distinctly unwelcome.
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  #4  
Old 06-23-2024, 08:20 PM
Gorditadogg Gorditadogg is offline
Al Stein
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Originally Posted by G1911 View Post
The story is that Bonds began using steroids in 2000. Through 1999, he had 445 home runs.
I think he started in 93 or 94, when he started having injury problems. But whatever.

My point is the same: his career numbers are hugely inflated. Rose, Mays and Mantle's are not.

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  #5  
Old 06-23-2024, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Gorditadogg View Post
I think he started in 93 or 94, when he started having injury problems. But whatever.

My point is the same: his career numbers are hugely inflated. Rose, Mays and Mantle's are not.

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His girlfriend who trashed him in Sports Illustrated or wherever said it was a reaction to Sosa and McGwire.
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  #6  
Old 06-23-2024, 08:33 PM
Gorditadogg Gorditadogg is offline
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
His girlfriend who trashed him in Sports Illustrated or wherever said it was a reaction to Sosa and McGwire.
There is truth to that. Players had been using steroids to recover from injuries for several years. Canseco and a very few others had been overdoing it, but after the McGwire-Sosa spectacle, I think Bonds decided to take it to another level.

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  #7  
Old 06-23-2024, 08:37 PM
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There is truth to that. Players had been using steroids to recover from injuries for several years. Canseco and a very few others had been overdoing it, but after the McGwire-Sosa spectacle, I think Bonds decided to take it to another level.

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Suppose he used them previously specifically to recover from an injury. How is that different from Koufax getting his elbow shot up every time he pitched?
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  #8  
Old 06-23-2024, 09:00 PM
Gorditadogg Gorditadogg is offline
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Suppose he used them previously specifically to recover from an injury. How is that different from Koufax getting his elbow shot up every time he pitched?
That's a lot more nuanced, isn't it. Even in Koufax's day, doctors had concerns about cortisone causing further damage to the joints. It wasn't illegal, but maybe it was unethical. You can make similar points about steroids, there are adverse affects from long term use, which is why they are restricted to prescription use.

Steroids turned out to be much more useful than cortisone, however, and should have been regulated by Selig early on. Instead, he implicitly condoned them, which allowed baseball home run records to become a farce.

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  #9  
Old 06-23-2024, 09:10 PM
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Cortisone is a steroid, no?
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  #10  
Old 06-23-2024, 09:12 PM
Carter08 Carter08 is offline
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Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth View Post
Suppose he used them previously specifically to recover from an injury. How is that different from Koufax getting his elbow shot up every time he pitched?
If you use something that isn’t banned, hard to say you’re doing something wrong. This seems fairly cut and dry. Bonds and others knew what they were doing was wrong. That some have slipped through doesn’t mean they should get in. That’s letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Good is trying to keep known violators out. That’s what the actual voters seem to be doing.
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  #11  
Old 06-23-2024, 09:21 PM
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If you use something that isn’t banned, hard to say you’re doing something wrong. This seems fairly cut and dry. Bonds and others knew what they were doing was wrong. That some have slipped through doesn’t mean they should get in. That’s letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Good is trying to keep known violators out. That’s what the actual voters seem to be doing.
Except that it results in a totally skewed Hall.
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  #12  
Old 06-23-2024, 08:35 PM
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Always thought it was 1990 ,
His first four years 48, 59, 58, 58 rbis (in 580 at bats)
Then bam 1990 - 114 rbis
260 hitter that can’t break 60 RBIs is now the MVP
1989 ops .777
1990 ops .970
I can understand improvement but four perfectly mediocre years and then your an mvp
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  #13  
Old 06-23-2024, 08:37 PM
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  #14  
Old 06-23-2024, 09:14 PM
Carter08 Carter08 is offline
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Ha exactly. Let’s pretend we didn’t see Bonds’ head nearly double in size.
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  #15  
Old 06-23-2024, 09:24 PM
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Ha exactly. Let’s pretend we didn’t see Bonds’ head nearly double in size.
So did his hat size actually change or is this just a cool sounding myth. Some Peds will 100% bloat your face up as many make you retain water. So your head will look bigger when it really isn't.
Last edited by bnorth; 06-23-2024 at 09:25 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #16  
Old 06-23-2024, 09:36 PM
Gorditadogg Gorditadogg is offline
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So did his hat size actually change or is this just a cool sounding myth. Some Peds will 100% bloat your face up as many make you retain water. So your head will look bigger when it really isn't.
He went from an 8 to a size 10. I am surprised you didn't know that. HGH makes your head grow.

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  #17  
Old 06-23-2024, 09:55 PM
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He went from an 8 to a size 10. I am surprised you didn't know that. HGH makes your head grow.

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LOL, 8 to 10. I was actually surprised at how small many MLB players heads are. I noticed it when looking at game worn hats. I wear a tight 7 5/8 when I have no hair so it is hard to find a gamer that I can wear.

HGH is one of the few things I never took.
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  #18  
Old 06-23-2024, 09:39 PM
Carter08 Carter08 is offline
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So did his hat size actually change or is this just a cool sounding myth. Some Peds will 100% bloat your face up as many make you retain water. So your head will look bigger when it really isn't.
No idea about what his hat size did but we all saw his body and head grow to a pretty absurd degree. It was part of the steroid era zeitgeist. SNL did skits about it. It wasn’t debatable or even a secret that he was juicing.
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  #19  
Old 06-24-2024, 05:59 AM
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Here are some other good examples:

https://www.businessinsider.com/athl...teroids-2011-9
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  #20  
Old 06-24-2024, 06:37 AM
jayshum jayshum is offline
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Interesting that they couldn't find any football players to include. While football also has rules against PEDs, why is it that no one seems to care if players are using them?
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  #21  
Old 06-24-2024, 08:12 AM
Carter08 Carter08 is offline
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Interesting that they couldn't find any football players to include. While football also has rules against PEDs, why is it that no one seems to care if players are using them?
The NFL has suspended hundreds of players for PEDs, including stars like DeAndre Hopkins.
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  #22  
Old 06-24-2024, 09:06 AM
jayshum jayshum is offline
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The NFL has suspended hundreds of players for PEDs, including stars like DeAndre Hopkins.
I know, but does anyone care when it happens like what is seen in baseball? Has anyone been kept out of Canton because of a PED suspension?
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