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#1
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What if my best interest is to burn my business down to collect insurance? My attorney will tell me, hey, moron, that's a bad idea. Attorneys on the board please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I imagine your duty to your client involves giving them sound legal advice, not merely telling them what they want to hear.
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Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
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#3
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Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions. ![]() My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-14-2024 at 09:44 PM. |
#4
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Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
#5
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I have no idea at what point they were notified so this is just a thought experiment. |
#6
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__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
#7
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I think he meant if you were a consigner of one of the stolen items.
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#8
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Also, I believe just because they were stolen/missing, they are still "property " of the auction house. If they found them the day the auction closed or are recovered now, the auction house still has ownership.
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"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#9
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#10
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I would want to have been told asap of it, and at the very least my stolen lots pulled immediately from the auction
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#11
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__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
#12
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Hi Scott! I'm just playing devils advocate, obviously it totally sucks for both consignor and buyer. Some of the cards are basically irreplaceable, but at least there is some sort of hare brained value placed on them. As Ryan mentioned, overall was about what he expected. Imagine if insurance looked up last sales....yikes! I'd have to check my Memory Lane consignment agreement for actual terms, but I'm assume ML DOES own rights ( to sell, possibly mentiined as dispose, at a minimum) to be able to sell the card, at their discretion, as long as the consignor is paid. Otherwise, if the sales were weak, the consignor could just "demand their property back". So I am finding flaw in your logic that the auction houses never have "ownership" of their consignments. If the cards appear, can the consignor demand them back, or is ML legally bound to sell to the highest bidder? They would be returned to the "owner" or posessor? Strange situation Possession is 9/10ths of the law 🙄
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"Trolling Ebay right now" © Always looking for signed 1952 topps as well as variations and errors |
#13
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It is my understanding that generally, a consignor retains title (ownership) to his consigned items until they are sold and paid for. Of course, any specific consignment arrangement can be different in this regard. My REA consignment agreement states that if a winning bidder does not pay within a reasonable time, REA has the option of paying the consignor, in which event REA will then have title to the consigned items.
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Seeking very scarce/rare cards for my Sam Rice master collection, e.g., E210 York Caramel Type 2 (upgrade), 1931 W502, W504 (upgrade), W572 sepia, W573, 1922 Haffner's Bread, 1922 Keating Candy, 1922 Witmor Candy Type 2 (vertical back), 1926 Sports Co. of Am. with ad & blank backs. Also 1917 Merchants Bakery & Weil Baking cards of WaJo. Also E222 cards of Lipe, Revelle & Ryan. |
#14
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If that's what he meant, I'd probably be all for keeping the auction running. Of course telling the consignors of stolen items invites all sorts of possible shenanigans with bidding to run up the settlement.
__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
#15
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You say, “Steve.. what do I say to the tax man when he comes to my door and says, ‘You.. have never paid taxes’?” Two simple words. Two simple words in the English language: “I forgot!” How many times do we let ourselves get into terrible situations because we don’t say “I forgot”? Let’s say you’re on trial for armed robbery. You say to the judge, “I forgot armed robbery was illegal.” Let’s suppose he says back to you, “You have committed a foul crime. you have stolen hundreds and thousands of dollars from people at random, and you say, ‘I forgot’?” Two simple words: "Excuuuuuse me!!“
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Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true. https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/ Or not... Last edited by Exhibitman; 05-20-2024 at 12:06 PM. |
#16
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I am confused by the false equivalencies being posted.
How can people not understand the difference between intentionally operating in bad faith (posting a fake listing to drum up business, or create a comp point) and operating in good faith and having something go horribly wrong?
__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
#17
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Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true. https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/ Or not... Last edited by Exhibitman; 05-20-2024 at 01:29 PM. |
#18
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#19
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I realize that hope springs eternal, and hope is not much of a strategy, but it's not completely crazy to proceed on that basis. Of course, once you head down the road of not shutting it down, it gets a lot more exciting the closer you get to the end of the auction without having recovered the items.
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Trying to wrap up my master mays set, with just a few left: 1968 American Oil left side 1971 Bazooka numbered complete panel |
#20
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__________________
Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions |
#21
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I could make almost any proposition look wrong and inconsistent using the Socratic method. But so what? It's a useful exercise in some contexts and can be fun (not in the first year of law school when you're on the receiving end, perhaps), but at the end of the day it has significant limitations. These "gotcha" posts don't establish anything about the specific ML situation IMO. Life is complex, everything doesn't reduce to clean lines, deal with it.
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Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions. ![]() My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 05-20-2024 at 08:28 PM. |
#22
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The point I was clumsily trying to make with the comparison to the shill bidding thread of years gone by is that, at that time, the "damages" were the phony sales that were left hanging out there. Whether the bidder can't (or won't) honor the bid, or the AH won't (or in this case can't) complete the sale, the end result is non-sales looking like sales. I was NOT in any way comparing what ML did, to the act of shill bidding and I'm sorry if that impression was given. I was aiming at the similarity of a party knowingly advancing the impression a sale was actually happening, when it was not. And, that in the previous discussion, this was seen as a decidedly damaging impact on the hobby. Hopefully ML has retroactively removed those phantom lots from their auction results. In short I was trying to establish whether deceit and phantom sales were ok, generally, if a lawyer couldn't bring suit (nobody hurt, no damages.) My journey down the slippery slope produced nothing conclusive. My mind is big enough to recognize ML had to choose between a few bad options. |
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