Memory Lane sold cards they didn't have per SCD

[BeanTown]

Correct me if wrong, doesn’t law enforcement have facial recognition programs which can easily show the identities of people and even when only half the face is shown? Maybe law enforcement are looking at two days of videos of everyone that entered the area of where the box was located. Hopefully the video didn’t get erased or recorded over by Best Western BEST.

[Kco]

Originally Posted by Carter08

I think he could reasonably expect that he had won a card though. Since it was being auctioned. He was lied to by someone.

You've materially lost nothing you weren't 100% compensated for. You sold something (collectible, stock, index fund etc) at a price you were willing to accept. That money is still fully yours. Sure it's disappointing, but people sell things to finance other things every day. Sometime's it works out, sometimes stuff beyond their control happens that make the expected purchase no longer possible.

[steve B]

Stuff can go missing for a long time and eventually turn up.

https://www.linns.com/news/us-stamps...use-cover.html

I have a couple items that were essentially unseen/unrecognized for decades.
Not from being stolen, but just vanishing into collections. then maybe on to other collectors or dealers who didn't know their importance. (Not in the league of the above cover though. )

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Yup. And that is exactly why Memory Lane and I (and the other affected consignors) conspired to have cards stolen, so we could shill bid the "stolen" cards and commit insurance fraud and make a little extra money. We just had no idea that you internet geniuses would figure out our brilliant plan.

Brunswickreeves, you are getting awfully close to implying something that is very untrue and extremely offensive. Watch it.

Guys, please be mindful that this is a public message board, and that this is a real and very unfortunate situation with the real potential for economic and reputational loss to real people. Its one thing to discuss this matter -- its a BIG deal in our hobby and should be discussed. But its another altogether to start making assumptions on facts nobody knows about and, worse, making assumptions about people's motives, throwing around words like fraudulent, "price run ups", etc.

Ryan Hotchkiss, Consignor to Memory Lane

Leon, perhaps its time to lock this thread before some members get sued (or counter-sued in the case of Snowman) because of careless, false, and harmful public statements.

Sad that the wild conjecture of some has pushed things this far.

[brunswickreeves]

Originally Posted by steve B

Sad that the wild conjecture of some has pushed things this far.

This response to which you’ve replied was based on a misinterpretation. We had a nice PM yesterday and retain a good friendship. I clarified my post was in response to another in order to rebut its inference there was consignor/consignee wrongdoing. This terrible situation is indeed being handled with grace and class and hope all are made whole.

[ullmandds]

what an unfortunate situation.

[brunswickreeves]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Yup. And that is exactly why Memory Lane and I (and the other affected consignors) conspired to have cards stolen, so we could shill bid the "stolen" cards and commit insurance fraud and make a little extra money. We just had no idea that you internet geniuses would figure out our brilliant plan.

Brunswickreeves, you are getting awfully close to implying something that is very untrue and extremely offensive. Watch it.

Guys, please be mindful that this is a public message board, and that this is a real and very unfortunate situation with the real potential for economic and reputational loss to real people. Its one thing to discuss this matter -- its a BIG deal in our hobby and should be discussed. But its another altogether to start making assumptions on facts nobody knows about and, worse, making assumptions about people's motives, throwing around words like fraudulent, "price run ups", etc.

Ryan Hotchkiss, Consignor to Memory Lane

Leon, perhaps its time to lock this thread before some members get sued (or counter-sued in the case of Snowman) because of careless, false, and harmful public statements.

Misinterpretation. It was nice PM yesterday and retain a good friendship, clarifying my post was in response to another in order to rebut its inference there was consignor/consignee wrongdoing. This terrible situation is indeed being handled with grace and class and hope all are made whole.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by brunswickreeves

This response to which you’ve replied was based on a misunderstanding. We had a nice PM yesterday and retain a good friendship. I clarified my post was in response to another in order to rebut its inference there was consignor/consignee wrongdoing. This terrible situation is indeed being handled with grace and class and hope all are made whole.

Also, mental note to remind the same people saying don’t rush to judgment to do the same when other institutions are involved. Favoritism abounds. Some of the same people saying wait for all the facts have no issue throwing other companies under the bus based on less. A company poorly shipped items and then continued an auction of items it no longer possessed. Those facts are undisputed and create plenty of ground for a reasonable discussion.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Also, mental note to remind the same people saying don’t rush to judgment to do the same when other institutions are involved. Favoritism abounds. Some of the same people saying wait for all the facts have no issue throwing other companies under the bus based on less. A company poorly shipped items and then continued an auction of items it no longer possessed. Those facts are undisputed and create plenty of ground for a reasonable discussion.

I have yet to meet a person in life that does not use favoritism, not a single one.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I have yet to meet a person in life that does not use favoritism, not a single one.

Agree. And the key is to recognize it and then not be too judgmental of others when their opinion differs on your selected favorite. Instead, it seems like some feel free to cast stones, but if you do the same to their selected favorite there’s a sudden call for order. Maybe for good reason, but if pwcc did what happened here my god the hounds would be out.

[LuckyLarry]

once at the National there was this famous '52 Mantle card on display so I asked if I could get a picture with it and the security guard kept a close watch on it/me lol

[Republicaninmass]

Nice! The amazing eye appeal psa 7st!


..oh Mean sgc 9.5 , sharp

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I have yet to meet a person in life that does not use favoritism, not a single one.

"I'm sure we all agree that we ought to love one another, and I know there are people in the world who do not love their fellow human beings, and I hate people like that!"

Tom Lehrer

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

"I'm sure we all agree that we ought to love one another, and I know there are people in the world who do not love their fellow human beings, and I hate people like that!"

Tom Lehrer

There’s only two kinds of people I don’t like. Those that don’t respect other cultures and the Dutch. - Austin Powers

[docpatlv]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

One point that hasn’t been brought up yet. The winners of the stolen cards got screwed. But I would also say that ML consignors of the non stolen cards also may have been screwed at well. What if a bidder wanted to go for two cards, one non stolen and one stolen, and picked to go hard after the stolen card.

I am sure some consignors in ML are none too pleased to read this news story.

Surprised this comment was overlooked with no responses. I thought it was one of the most interesting comments in this whole debacle. For those of you who agree that it was okay to continue auctions on the stolen cards, do you also agree that it may have been to the detriment of other consignors as illustrated in the highlighted section above?

If your consignment could have netted an extra 5-10k+ had a bidder concentrated on your lot instead of chasing a stolen lot, would you have been happy?

M.ike P.ugeda

[ThomasL]

Why haven't they released a list of the stolen items yet...or have I missed that? I think it would help for people to keep an eye out for them.

Also I didnt infer anything in my prior post except that I felt it was a target theft and law enforcement might have let it run to help aid them in eliminating or possibly incriminating possible suspects...that would include a long list of people...I am sorry if someone read into that incorrectly

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by docpatlv

Surprised this comment was overlooked with no responses. I thought it was one of the most interesting comments in this whole debacle. For those of you who agree that it was okay to continue auctions on the stolen cards, do you also agree that it may have been to the detriment of other consignors as illustrated in the highlighted section above?

If your consignment could have netted an extra 5-10k+ had a bidder concentrated on your lot instead of chasing a stolen lot, would you have been happy?

M.ike P.ugeda

I think a much bigger detriment would've been the mysterious removal of $2m of the best cards. Can you imagine, as a bidder, continuing to bid in an auction where that happened?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I think a much bigger detriment would've been the mysterious removal of $2m of the best cards. Can you imagine, as a bidder, continuing to bid in an auction where that happened?

What about the damage to consignors from potentially have to dispute valuations on many of the scarcer items? All that avoided.

[FrankWakefield]

First, once the auction house no longer has the item, they need to immediately STOP accepting bids and STOP trying to sell it. Existing bids should be voided. Update the listing with NO LONGER AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME, and mention on the front page of the auction exactly what has happened. To continue to try to sell something they don't have is misleading.

Next, communicate directly with each of the consignors of the items that aren't available about what has occurred; and with their insurance company, immediately.

Keep law enforcement, the insurance folks, and the consignors, informed of updates as they are available.

Again, you can't sell something you don't have, and it's wrong to go through the steps involved with the auction when the item is gone.

And finally, contemplate about what happened, how it happened, and what changes can be done to minimize it happening again; then implement those changes.

[docpatlv]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards
I think a much bigger detriment would've been the mysterious removal of $2m of the best cards. Can you imagine, as a bidder, continuing to bid in an auction where that happened?

If you’re replying to me, of course I can…I would, as long as the cards I wanted were still available. What percentage of bidders do you think are bidding on $25-50k cards? I would think it’s small.

M.ike P.ugeda

[docpatlv]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What about the damage to consignors from potentially have to dispute valuations on many of the scarcer items? All that avoided.

What are your thoughts on other consignors who potentially lost $$$ on their consignments in the scenario highlighted in my previous post? Innocent bystanders?

M.ike P.ugeda

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by docpatlv

What are your thoughts on other consignors who potentially lost $$$ on their consignments in the scenario highlighted in my previous post? Innocent bystanders?

M.ike P.ugeda

If that happened, obviously it's unfortunate. No winning options here for ML.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

"I'm sure we all agree that we ought to love one another, and I know there are people in the world who do not love their fellow human beings, and I hate people like that!"

Tom Lehrer

National Brotherhood Week. Great song. Adam, you're the first person I know other than my brother and me who can quote Tom Lehrer.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

What about the damage to consignors from potentially have to dispute valuations on many of the scarcer items? All that avoided.

I was responding to the idea of consignors who weren't directly affected by the theft being negatively impacted by the continuation of the auction of the items that were stolen.

I really think there were only two options. Cancel the auction entirely, or let it run like they did. Any half measure would've been an abject disaster.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jayshum

National Brotherhood Week. Great song. Adam, you're the first person I know other than my brother and me who can quote Tom Lehrer.

You can do whatever you want if
You have cleared it with the pontiff

[Republicaninmass]

Best part is......99% of these posters haven't sniffed 2 million bucks worth of cards, let alone would they know what do if they were stolen.

Supreme Court of baseball card message boards

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Best part is......99% of these posters haven't sniffed 2 million bucks worth of cards, let alone would they know what do if they were stolen.

Supreme Court of baseball card message boards

I haven't committed murder either, but I know it's wrong.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You can do whatever you want if
You have cleared it with the pontiff

The Vatican Rag.

One of my favorites is Oedipus Rex

Yes he loved his mother like no other.
His daughter was his sister and his son was his brother.
One thing on which you can depend is,
He sure knew who a boy's best friend is!

When he found what he had done,
He tore his eyes out one by one.
A tragic end to a loyal son
Who loved his mother.

And as a chemist, I always loved The Elements.

[rhettyeakley]

Tried to get caught up with all this...

This may be one of the craziest hobby stories I have ever heard!

I can't imagine sending something like that to a Best Western...even with the "PLUS"!

I hope the cards are found mainly because the thought of cards as significant as the ones taken could be lost forever makes me incredibly sad!

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by jayshum

National Brotherhood Week. Great song. Adam, you're the first person I know other than my brother and me who can quote Tom Lehrer.

Such an underrated genius. I can quote a bunch of his stuff, but this one seems just as pertinent today as it was in 1966...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRLON3ddZIw

I know that under 1% of people here will care, but when you see a rare mention of Tom Lehrer, you just gotta post something!

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Such an underrated genius. I can quote a bunch of his stuff, but this one seems just as pertinent today as it was in 1966...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRLON3ddZIw

I know that under 1% of people here will care, but when you see a rare mention of Tom Lehrer, you just gotta post something!

+1 to Tom Lehrer. His material was brilliant. I can almost imagine him at the piano, singing about this crazy hobby.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by docpatlv

Surprised this comment was overlooked with no responses. I thought it was one of the most interesting comments in this whole debacle. For those of you who agree that it was okay to continue auctions on the stolen cards, do you also agree that it may have been to the detriment of other consignors as illustrated in the highlighted section above?

If your consignment could have netted an extra 5-10k+ had a bidder concentrated on your lot instead of chasing a stolen lot, would you have been happy?

M.ike P.ugeda

Gabrinus touched upon this in post #37, and I picked up upon his thoughts in post #51. Here is what I wrote almost 500 posts ago:


Originally Posted by gabrinus View Post
Holy shit that sucks...I understand the insurance angle but that money could have gone to other cards in the auction...Jerry


Definitely a great point...not only did this hurt the winning bidders of the missing cards, some of whom perhaps would have shifted their bidding money to other non-stolen lots, but the consigners of some non-stolen cards in the auction perhaps could have had the action on their lots potentially minimized because of the decision to keep the stolen auction lots open.

Condolences to all involved, and just a sucky situation all around that, with some common sense precautions, probably could have been avoided in the first place.


brianp(arker)-beme (quoting brianp(arker)-beme) - man, this thread has a lot of words!

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Best part is......99% of these posters haven't sniffed 2 million bucks worth of cards, let alone would they know what do if they were stolen.

Supreme Court of baseball card message boards

Stupid plebes. Don't they realize that the value of their Internet opinions is directly proportional to their net worth?

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by gunboat82

Stupid plebes. Don't they realize that the value of their Internet opinions is directly proportional to their net worth?

I wondered if anyone caught that. Now we’re starting a class war, the sniffers vs the never-have-sniffed.

The 1 per-scent discharging their snottiness on opinions of others.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

I wondered if anyone caught that. Now we’re starting a class war, the sniffers vs the never-have-sniffed.

The 1 per-scent discharging their snottiness on opinions of others.

As an Italian, does my Roman nose permit heightened sniffing capacity, beyond my otherwise economically limited olfactory abilities?

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by raulus

As an Italian, does my Roman nose permit heightened sniffing capacity, beyond my otherwise economically limited olfactory abilities?

I had economically limited olfactory abilities, but discovered that blowing my nose on a regular basis did wonders for my bank account.

Brian (fiduciary for fiduciants everywhere)

[packs]

Weren’t most of those King maker cards originally owned by children?

[Seven]

Originally Posted by packs

Weren’t most of those King maker cards originally owned by children?

Not to get off topic, but most of these cards in general, were owned by children, but I understand the point your making.

To address what was posted a few posts above, I'm very much out of my element when it comes to things dealing with auction houses and shows. Even moreso with the dollar amounts being discussed. I have not passed judgement, because it's quite simply not my place to pass judgement.

However just because I or someone else will never sniff the million dollar cards, doesn't mean that their opinion automatically becomes invalidated.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I think a much bigger detriment would've been the mysterious removal of $2m of the best cards. Can you imagine, as a bidder, continuing to bid in an auction where that happened?

I wouldn't have been stuck with 3 non-stolen high dollar cards, that's for sure.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by gunboat82

Stupid plebes. Don't they realize that the value of their Internet opinions is directly proportional to their net worth?

yeah, silly commoners.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

First, once the auction house no longer has the item, they need to immediately STOP accepting bids and STOP trying to sell it. Existing bids should be voided. Update the listing with NO LONGER AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME, and mention on the front page of the auction exactly what has happened. To continue to try to sell something they don't have is misleading.

Next, communicate directly with each of the consignors of the items that aren't available about what has occurred; and with their insurance company, immediately.

Keep law enforcement, the insurance folks, and the consignors, informed of updates as they are available.

Again, you can't sell something you don't have, and it's wrong to go through the steps involved with the auction when the item is gone.

And finally, contemplate about what happened, how it happened, and what changes can be done to minimize it happening again; then implement those changes.

Stop making so much sence. I was actually at the counter when the detectives were questioning the guy about the "Lost Package" & "reviewing Video". I never realized this was what they were discussing. I should have been more assertive, listened in more attentively and asked questions.

EVERYONE was able to keep this a SECRET for 2-3 Weeks. That was really helpful. That's a crime or at least a crying shame in itself. You know I woulda been flapping my gums. What was the big secret? So they could pull off the fake auction? For insurance? For Law Enforcement, for the cosigners. Lets do it for "Duty & Humanity". That's Lame AF, IMHO.

We would like a list of all the cards that were involved right now

[oldjudge]

Why aren't the images of the cards posted? That would limit the options of the thief,

[Seven]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Why aren't the images of the cards posted? That would limit the options of the thief,

My only guess is because the investigation is still ongoing? But I truly don't have much of a clue either. Maybe someone can shed light on the situation.

[GaryPassamonte]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

First, once the auction house no longer has the item, they need to immediately STOP accepting bids and STOP trying to sell it. Existing bids should be voided. Update the listing with NO LONGER AVAILABLE AT THIS TIME, and mention on the front page of the auction exactly what has happened. To continue to try to sell something they don't have is misleading.

Next, communicate directly with each of the consignors of the items that aren't available about what has occurred; and with their insurance company, immediately.

Keep law enforcement, the insurance folks, and the consignors, informed of updates as they are available.

Again, you can't sell something you don't have, and it's wrong to go through the steps involved with the auction when the item is gone.

And finally, contemplate about what happened, how it happened, and what changes can be done to minimize it happening again; then implement those changes.

+1

[mannequin1]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Best part is......99% of these posters haven't sniffed 2 million bucks worth of cards, let alone would they know what do if they were stolen.

Supreme Court of baseball card message boards

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

I wouldn't have been stuck with 3 non-stolen high dollar cards, that's for sure.

How were you stuck with 3 cards?

[Yoda]

Isn't it about time ML issued some kind of public statement about the theft and ongoing investigations. The public has a right to know, especially Net54.

[notfast]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

I wouldn't have been stuck with 3 non-stolen high dollar cards, that's for sure.

I want to hear this.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Isn't it about time ML issued some kind of public statement about the theft and ongoing investigations. The public has a right to know, especially Net54.

What for? This will have no impact on their business. The collecting community as a whole along with the bidders and consigners, don’t care they’re going to continue to do business with them. Most are cool with them continuing the auction of the lots that were stolen even after they no longer had possession of them to get a comp for insurance purposes. This will all blow over like all the other scandals have over the years.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I imagine they have communicated with all affected parties. So why do they need to make a public statement?

[ThomasL]

I would think law enforcement is who should make a statement...list the card stolen and seek the publics help in keeping an eye out for the cards since it apparently has not been solved