Memory Lane sold cards they didn't have per SCD

[Mark17]

So far this discussion has mainly been focused on establishing value, for insurance purposes and to make everybody whole (after it's determined where liability lies.)

Here's a hypothetical: Since the cards were mailed from out of state, and it's a large sum, suppose the FBI is, indeed, running the investigation. Maybe it was THEIR idea to run the auction as though nothing had happened.

If it wasn't public knowledge that cards were stolen, and more importantly, exactly which ones, maybe it was an FBI-initiated "sting" operation to try to identify unusual bidding behavior. For example, some person, or group, bidding up only the stolen cards, to inflate their perceived value. Or, hoping some bidder might somehow reveal knowledge unknown to the public, like asking unusual questions, etc.

IF this is generally what happened, then I would have to change my mind and say that ML did the right thing in working with law enforcement to solve the crime.

Another package was tampered with, but not taken. I wonder if fingerprints were obtained that could be cross-checked against employees or others with access to the package. Maybe this is the reason for their stated "optimism."

So... If it was done to establish value, I think that was wrong. If it was a key part of the investigation, under direction of law enforcement, I would unquestionably change my mind completely.

[ThomasL]

Originally Posted by Mark17

So far this discussion has mainly been focused on establishing value, for insurance purposes and to make everybody whole (after it's determined where liability lies.)

Here's a hypothetical: Since the cards were mailed from out of state, and it's a large sum, suppose the FBI is, indeed, running the investigation. Maybe it was THEIR idea to run the auction as though nothing had happened.

If it wasn't public knowledge that cards were stolen, and more importantly, exactly which ones, maybe it was an FBI-initiated "sting" operation to try to identify unusual bidding behavior. For example, some person, or group, bidding up only the stolen cards, to inflate their perceived value. Or, hoping some bidder might somehow reveal knowledge unknown to the public, like asking unusual questions, etc.

IF this is generally what happened, then I would have to change my mind and say that ML did the right thing in working with law enforcement to solve the crime.

Another package was tampered with, but not taken. I wonder if fingerprints were obtained that could be cross-checked against employees or others with access to the package. Maybe this is the reason for their stated "optimism."

So... If it was done to establish value, I think that was wrong. If it was a key part of the investigation, under direction of law enforcement, I would unquestionably change my mind completely.

+1

[Snowman]

If the insurance company does pull through and magically pays out on this rather dicey claim, then they would become the owners of the cards should they ever surface.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Snowman

If the insurance company does pull through and magically pays out on this rather dicey claim, then they would become the owners of the cards should they ever surface.

This is perhaps one of the most interesting things to me, but again this is assuming a lot. I have no dog in this race, I'm a lower level collector that makes less in a year than some of these cards go for in an auction. All that being said the only way I would think the Insurance company would pay out, correct me if I'm wrong, is if there was next to zero chance of the cards being recovered. If they suddenly are what exactly happens to them? I doubt the insurance company wants a bunch of old pre-war cards. Do they auction them off?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Seven

This is perhaps one of the most interesting things to me, but again this is assuming a lot. I have no dog in this race, I'm a lower level collector that makes less in a year than some of these cards go for in an auction. All that being said the only way I would think the Insurance company would pay out, correct me if I'm wrong, is if there was next to zero chance of the cards being recovered. If they suddenly are what exactly happens to them? I doubt the insurance company wants a bunch of old pre-war cards. Do they auction them off?

Never with cards but with items in the 5 figure range the insurance company owned the items after they paid me off. Have no idea what they did with them afterwards.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Never with cards but with items in the 5 figure range the insurance company owned the items after they paid me off. Have no idea what they did with them afterwards.

That's exactly what I'm asking. I'd imagine they have to do SOMETHING with them!

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

The likelihood of the recovery of the cards is not the criteria the carrier would use to base paying the claim or not, in this situation. They pay when there is a loss and at this point there is a loss but they only pay when the policyholder abides by the policy, which does not sound like that happened.

Chase,

I appreciate the clarification. I'm unfamiliar with a lot of this, you learn something new everyday.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Never with cards but with items in the 5 figure range the insurance company owned the items after they paid me off. Have no idea what they did with them afterwards.

It used to get strange sometimes. A friend in HS wrecked his car. Insurance totalled it. Insurance paid.
Never asked him about the car which was at his house, or even the title.
After a couple months his dad called them asking when they might take their car out of the yard.
"We don't want that thing! Just scrap it. "
"Ok, since you own it can you just send me that in writing"

They did. The car got fixed, and sold. It didn't take much damage to total a Chevette.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Seven

This is perhaps one of the most interesting things to me, but again this is assuming a lot. I have no dog in this race, I'm a lower level collector that makes less in a year than some of these cards go for in an auction. All that being said the only way I would think the Insurance company would pay out, correct me if I'm wrong, is if there was next to zero chance of the cards being recovered. If they suddenly are what exactly happens to them? I doubt the insurance company wants a bunch of old pre-war cards. Do they auction them off?

The likelihood of the recovery of the cards is not the criteria the carrier would use to base paying the claim or not, in this situation. They pay when there is a loss and at this point there is a loss but they only pay when the policyholder abides by the policy, which does not sound like that happened.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Seven

This is perhaps one of the most interesting things to me, but again this is assuming a lot. I have no dog in this race, I'm a lower level collector that makes less in a year than some of these cards go for in an auction. All that being said the only way I would think the Insurance company would pay out, correct me if I'm wrong, is if there was next to zero chance of the cards being recovered. If they suddenly are what exactly happens to them? I doubt the insurance company wants a bunch of old pre-war cards. Do they auction them off?

Yes, the insurance company would just turn around and auction them off again if they were to take ownership by paying out on a claim and then later recovering the assets.

But I'd wager good money that they won't be consigning them to Memory Lane lol

[sb1]

In my limited (1 time) experience with CIA insurance and a package stolen by a postal employee, where we were made whole by the insurance company. About, six months later I discovered one of the cards on ebay, they recovered the cards and we were offered the items back at the same price that we were previously paid out. We just repaid them what they had previously paid out to us and they sent the cards back.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by sb1

In my limited (1 time) experience with CIA insurance and a package stolen by a postal employee, where we were made whole by the insurance company. About, six months later I discovered one of the cards on ebay, they recovered the cards and we were offered the items back at the same price that we were previously paid out. We just repaid them what they had previously paid out to us and they sent the cards back.

IF I recall correctly, it was 2 cards and the seller auctioning them on ebay got them from the thief, who was a postal employee!


Sorry to get off subject. The whole ML theft situation is just sad. At the end of the day I think more people will give better consideration to the who, how and when, of shipping really valuable things. The older we get the more expensive the lessons can be.

Did I ever mention about my restaurant debacle? It was expensive.
.

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Yes, the insurance company would just turn around and auction them off again if they were to take ownership by paying out on a claim and then later recovering the assets.

But I'd wager good money that they won't be consigning them to Memory Lane lol

Absolutely, most insurers' claims dept. have a salvage unit which does nothing more than dispose of assets recovered after they have paid the claim. Disposition can be anything; auctions, private sales, charitable contributions etc.