Could Caitlyn Clark compete with D1 men?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't follow your logic. This whole time you've said two things: she isn't physically capable of competing on a men's team and she can't defend. I don't think either of those things are dependent on her gender. I'm a man and I can't compete on a men's team either.

The point is this: there is no absolute. If you follow your logic, then you'd have to accept there will never be a woman physically gifted enough to play with men. I don't think that's anymore true than there will never be an NBA player who's 5'3. It will always come down to the individual. So, why not discuss people as individuals?

That there could be some fringe example does not negate the general proposition. Cheetahs are faster than squirrels. That there might be some extreme counterexample does not mean we should just consider every animal individually. I can't believe I have to explain this. Political correctness is fine but come on.

[packs]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

That there could be some fringe example does not negate the general proposition. Cheetahs are faster than squirrels. That there might be some extreme counterexample does not mean we should just consider every animal individually. I can't believe I have to explain this. Political correctness is fine but come on.

I don't think you're explaining anything. I'm just glad Muggsy Bogues and Spud Webb and a million other players never listened to detractors. I'm sure they heard YOU CAN'T way before they ever heard you can.

But they did.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't think you're explaining anything. I'm just glad Muggsy Bogues and Spud Webb and a million other players never listened to detractors. I'm sure they heard YOU CAN'T way before they ever heard you can.

But they did.

Yes but that has nothing to do with this topic. We are talking about the physiological differences, in general, between women and men as they relate to basketball. Not about the difference between a typical elite NBA player and a short elite NBA player.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't think you're explaining anything. I'm just glad Muggsy Bogues and Spud Webb and a million other players never listened to detractors. I'm sure they heard YOU CAN'T way before they ever heard you can.

But they did.

For what it is worth, I'd support Caitlyn Clark trying out for the CBA or a foreign men's pro league, now that her NCAA eligibility is probably over (I could be wrong here). Or perhaps let her play with the Iowa men next year for part of the season.

But would the results help the women's game? Even Lisa Leslie has deftly avoided the topic of women playing against men.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bk400

For what it is worth, I'd support Caitlyn Clark trying out for the CBA or a foreign men's pro league, now that her NCAA eligibility is probably over (I could be wrong here). Or perhaps let her play with the Iowa men next year for part of the season.

But would the results help the women's game? Even Lisa Leslie has deftly avoided the topic of women playing against men.

She has one more year and is foregoing it and the millions she would earn to go WNBA.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't think you're explaining anything. I'm just glad Muggsy Bogues and Spud Webb and a million other players never listened to detractors. I'm sure they heard YOU CAN'T way before they ever heard you can.

But they did.

LOL, both those guys had more muscle and strength than the girl. Still not sure why you keep bringing up smaller stronger men.

[packs]

Originally Posted by bnorth

LOL, both those guys had more muscle and strength than the girl. Still not sure why you keep bringing up smaller stronger men.

To demonstrate that there are no absolutes. I've already explained that. And my reason for bringing them up is because I don't support the idea of absolutes.

[bk400]

Caitlyn Clark is a joy to watch. Just like Mia Hamm, Lisa Leslie, and Allyson Felix were joys to watch. But if you made them compete against Sergio Ramos, Shaq, and Michael Johnson, it would set the women's movement back a generation because half of the world's population (largely outside the US) are looking to see women fail.

[Belfast1933]

Breaking news??

Maybe we won't have to just speculate:

https://www.espn.com/womens-college-...5m-offer-clark

[G1911]

I have no doubt women will crack into the mens leagues of the major sports over the next 20 years. It won't be because they can perform at that level, but because it is a part of the ideology that comes before physiology, human biology, and meritocratic rosters.

This PC delusion that women can do the same physical things as men to the same level, and it's more extreme form that has taken hold in several states that one cannot even define what a woman is in any terms besides a circular appeal to self-authority is absolutely crazy, but that's ideology. Conclusions writ by social or political need rarely make any sense.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by G1911

I have no doubt women will crack into the mens leagues of the major sports over the next 20 years. It won't be because they can perform at that level, but because it is a part of the ideology that comes before physiology, human biology, and meritocratic rosters.

This PC delusion that women can do the same physical things as men to the same level, and it's more extreme form that has taken hold in several states that one cannot even define what a woman is in any terms besides a circular appeal to self-authority is absolutely crazy, but that's ideology. Conclusions writ by social or political need rarely make any sense.

I am an optimist and therefore disagree with you. We're already seeing backlash against men who converted to women (I still can't figure out if this is called a trans man or a trans woman, so whatever) competing as woman in swimming. No one wants to see altered men in skirts playing tennis against natural women. It's weird. And sponsors and advertisers will make that view known behind closed doors.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by G1911

I have no doubt women will crack into the mens leagues of the major sports over the next 20 years. It won't be because they can perform at that level, but because it is a part of the ideology that comes before physiology, human biology, and meritocratic rosters.

This PC delusion that women can do the same physical things as men to the same level, and it's more extreme form that has taken hold in several states that one cannot even define what a woman is in any terms besides a circular appeal to self-authority is absolutely crazy, but that's ideology. Conclusions writ by social or political need rarely make any sense.

I just can't see it within basketball as there is no position in which it seems possible without massive rule changes.

I can see the NFL having a FG Kicker, or kicker/punter if they successfully eliminate returns in short order. Manon Rheaume may have only been in an exhibition game, but the goalie position in hockey does lend itself to female possibilities. Perhaps the MLB can find a slot at pitcher for a converted softball player. Submarine pitchers are not that uncommon.

I can't imagine any position unless it's a wasted bench slot within the game for an Eddie Gaedel type PC sideshow that works in the NBA.

[Belfast1933]

Originally Posted by G1911

I have no doubt women will crack into the mens leagues of the major sports over the next 20 years. It won't be because they can perform at that level, but because it is a part of the ideology that comes before physiology, human biology, and meritocratic rosters.

This PC delusion that women can do the same physical things as men to the same level, and it's more extreme form that has taken hold in several states that one cannot even define what a woman is in any terms besides a circular appeal to self-authority is absolutely crazy, but that's ideology. Conclusions writ by social or political need rarely make any sense.

Greg, but being a successful team sport player is more than just physical skill and strength, right? Anticipation, intelligence, experience, preparation, etc. don't require most bench press reps, fastest 40 times or highest vertical leap.

I'm not betting against this in my lifetime... there's more to measuring a team sport success than a stop watch

[JustinD]

Well the current news is that the retirement league of 3 on 3, Big3, has offered her 5 million to simply play 8 games.

This would pay her the same money per game as the top 25 of the NBA to simply play 3 on 3 with some super random retired players in their late 30s to 40s. The contract also provides that she can play her normal WNBA season. It's all win.

I will be surprised if she says yes, but I would tune in to watch her try. It's certainly not crazy competition, the best player they seemingly have signed is 35 year old Michael Beasley, and this is a group that starts Cuttino Mobley at age 48.

I am interested to see how this plays out with the offer likely large multiples what her season contract will be in the WNBA (highest contract was 242k last season). However, I doubt she takes it.

If she get smoked by guys near 50 and dominates the WNBA, the optics would be rough on the storytime premises. That said if she does even okay it could be boon like Riggs-King, even though that was a silly thing as King was number 1 in the world and Riggs was 55 (and may have thrown it per numerous stories).

[bk400]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Well the current news is that the retirement league of 3 on 3, Big3, has offered her 5 million to simply play 8 games.

This would pay her the same money per game as the top 25 of the NBA to simply play 3 on 3 with some super random retired players in their late 30s to 40s. The contract also provides that she can play her normal WNBA season. It's all win.

I will be surprised if she says yes, but I would tune in to watch her try. It's certainly not crazy competition, the best player they seemingly have signed is 35 year old Michael Beasley, and this is a group that starts Cuttino Mobley at age 48.

I am interested to see how this plays out with the offer likely large multiples what her season contract will be in the WNBA (highest contract was 242k last season). However, I doubt she takes it.

If she get smoked by guys near 50 and dominates the WNBA, the optics would be rough on the storytime premises. That said if she does even okay it could be boon like Riggs-King, even though that was a silly thing as King was number 1 in the world and Riggs was 55 (and may have thrown it per numerous stories).

She should go to the WNBA. Or stay at Iowa as Peter intimated and make NIL money. Maybe it is an old school view, but I'd be sad to see a talent like her getting her ass kicked by Charles Oakley or whoever Ice Cube brings in to maul her.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Well the current news is that the retirement league of 3 on 3, Big3, has offered her 5 million to simply play 8 games.

This would pay her the same money per game as the top 25 of the NBA to simply play 3 on 3 with some super random retired players in their late 30s to 40s. The contract also provides that she can play her normal WNBA season. It's all win.

I will be surprised if she says yes, but I would tune in to watch her try. It's certainly not crazy competition, the best player they seemingly have signed is 35 year old Michael Beasley, and this is a group that starts Cuttino Mobley at age 48.

I am interested to see how this plays out with the offer likely large multiples what her season contract will be in the WNBA (highest contract was 242k last season). However, I doubt she takes it.

If she get smoked by guys near 50 and dominates the WNBA, the optics would be rough on the storytime premises. That said if she does even okay it could be boon like Riggs-King, even though that was a silly thing as King was number 1 in the world and Riggs was 55 (and may have thrown it per numerous stories).

She should go to the WNBA. Or stay at Iowa as Peter intimated and make NIL money. Maybe it is an old school view, but I'd be sad to see a talent like her getting her ass kicked by Charles Oakley or whoever Ice Cube brings in to maul her.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Well the current news is that the retirement league of 3 on 3, Big3, has offered her 5 million to simply play 8 games.

This would pay her the same money per game as the top 25 of the NBA to simply play 3 on 3 with some super random retired players in their late 30s to 40s. The contract also provides that she can play her normal WNBA season. It's all win.

I will be surprised if she says yes, but I would tune in to watch her try. It's certainly not crazy competition, the best player they seemingly have signed is 35 year old Michael Beasley, and this is a group that starts Cuttino Mobley at age 48.

I am interested to see how this plays out with the offer likely large multiples what her season contract will be in the WNBA (highest contract was 242k last season). However, I doubt she takes it.

If she get smoked by guys near 50 and dominates the WNBA, the optics would be rough on the storytime premises. That said if she does even okay it could be boon like Riggs-King, even though that was a silly thing as King was number 1 in the world and Riggs was 55 (and may have thrown it per numerous stories).

She should go to the WNBA. Or stay at Iowa as Peter intimated and make NIL money. Maybe it is an old school view, but I'd be sad to see a talent like her getting her ass kicked by Charles Oakley or whoever Ice Cube brings in to maul her.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by bk400

She should go to the WNBA. Or stay at Iowa as Peter intimated and make NIL money. Maybe it is an old school view, but I'd be sad to see a talent like her getting her ass kicked by Charles Oakley or whoever Ice Cube brings in to maul her.

I can see Clark going through that scenario: "Let's see. Option A, you give me my money, option B, you kick my ass. Now I could use a good ass kicking. Naw, I think I'm going with option A."

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