T206 Honus Wagner SGC 5 - John D. Wagner Collection

[Rocketcards]

4 of the 6 52 Mantle PSA 9's look like this one. And they're all owned by one family. There are many 6's that are nicer. For $175K you can get a nice 6 now when the last PSA 9 (probably the nicest one) sold for over $13M privately. We all see the problem with grading.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Rocketcards

I get it and share your frustration but the reality is that it is what it is and at this point short of regrading all of them it would seem to be far more of a disservice to the next one to grade it accurately when nearly all before it haven't been. Slotting them where they belong in the hierarchy seems a much fairer solution as new ones come down the pike.

I think we sometimes have to apply some logic. "SGC lied about A, B, C, D, therefore they must lie about E" is not really logical or reasonable. If a claim is made, that claim should be true, or if it is a claim of opinion, that opinion should be consistent with evidence and reasonable. If I say a card I'm selling or trading is in EX condition, it should be reasonably within the parameters of an EX card. If it is not, I will get lambasted on these boards for my dishonesty, and rightfully so. We all know right off the bat that this is not a 5 EX and there is no argument that it is. SGC is not special because they are a corporate entity. If a claim is untrue or unreasonable to hold as an opinion, it should be abandoned and corrected. Many people will not go along with a lie just because it is convenient for some. If SGC wants to make a brand new "i5 - Investor Excellent" grade and slap that on cards, they can do so. But as long as they blatantly lie, some people will continue to observe this fact and criticize the obvious dishonesty.

[Rocketcards]

I imagine SGC would admit to it around the same time PSA looks us in the eye and says the Mantle is a 9.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Rocketcards

I imagine SGC would admit to it around the same time PSA looks us in the eye and says the Mantle is a 9.

There we agree, I have no doubt at all that both firms will continue to lie and pretend up is down if it suits the bottom line. After all, their customers have 0 standards for conduct for them and will go with whatever the companies say no matter how obviously untrue it is because everyone's investment relies on accepting the fictions as truth.

[Lobo Aullando]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

Enough talk about whether the SGC Wagner card is over-graded. The real question is...did John D. keep the best T206 Wagner, or did he give the better one to Burdick?

Brian

Burdick's might be slightly better, although who knows what the back looks like.

[luciobar1980]

My first thought was also that those are some worn corners for a 5. BUT, if literally everything else about the card is damn nice I don’t think it’s unreasonable.

[823dek]

solid 3.5 and the witch get witcher

[Directly]

If I owned that Wagner, I sure wouldn't complain about the grade--bottom line if the card ever goes to auction, I don't think the investment group bidders will complain either, its graded a 5--end of story==

[nodgrass]

This is what happens when common folk submit a similar card.

[IMG][/IMG]

Additionally, when an older SGC graded card is submitted for a reholder, the date of the original grading shows as the date the card was graded. It does not change.

Speaking of SGC or PSA grading scale, in my opinion, the greatest failings come in SGC 1/ PSA 1 grades. Almost any horrible T206 card that is basically intact can get a 1. Cards with large spots of paper loss on front, or the back essentially completely missing are graded a 1. Some are given an Auth grade, but it is not always possible to understand why. Often, cards in worse condition than an "auth" are also seen as 1's. And it can have nothing to do with trimming, just overall condition.

On the other hand, there are many 1's that are decent and intact, which should be given a "fair" 1.5 designation. Poor is poor. Maybe the grading companies should expand the grade to "super poor" or "barely a card" and the new corresponding grade is an SGC 0.5 Use your "fair" designation dammit.

[IMG][/IMG]

[steve B]

Wagners have always gotten generous grading. I don't think any of it is on a scale, just that maybe some people get wierd around the "big" cards.

The one I saw up close in an auction in Connecticut was graded properly in that auction. Still sold for 30K even as a weak G. Creases, writing on the back.
over the next year or two it was offered a couple more times, and each time the grade and price changed g-vg it wasn't, but the ad said 60K, next time VG for 90K. It was not even close to VG in any way.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by cgjackson222

As I'm sure many haven noticed, SGC's website currently shows a T206 Honus Wagner SGC 5 from the "John D. Wagner Collection."

According to the Certification Number (0077560) it was graded in July 2021.

I am assuming John D. Wagner is not a relative of Honus Wagner, but rather the collector discussed in this net54 thread.
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=275068

The article in the net54 thread states that John D. Wagner had two T206 Honus Wagners, and gave one to Jefferson Burdick to help fill his collection.
It also states John D. Wagner met Honus in the early 40s and Honus confirmed that he was "opposed to smoking and that he didn't want to influence kids in that direction, so he stopped them from printing that card."

The SGC website states "SGC has graded 17 Honus Wagner T206s, a large portion of the total population considering the card’s well-documented scarcity....
It feels strange to say, but this one is even more impressive than the VG 3. This one received the unbelievable grade of EX 5. It’s the highest graded example of a Wagner that SGC has ever had the pleasure of evaluating and we’d put it up against any other Honus in the entire hobby.

In order to speak a little more to the one-of-a-kind nature of the card, we felt it best to take the words directly from the mouth of SGC’s 23-year veteran and Director of Grading, Scott Hileman. When talking about the card for this article, Scott said,

“I’ve never seen one like it. The card has everything going for it: near 50/50 centering, a crisp image, even corner wear, awesome color, and a clean surface. I almost couldn’t believe what my eyes were seeing. These attributes are rare to even your average common T206, let alone a Wagner.”

As it stands, we don’t believe there are any immediate plans for the card to be sold."

Anyway, if an SGC 2 can fetch over $7M, then I can't imagine what an SGC 5 would go for.

clearly a 1.5 if sent back to me by those slobs at SGC. Looks like a pinhole.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

clearly a 1.5 if sent back to me by those slobs at SGC. Looks like a pinhole.

Truth! I enjoy the speculation of prices when its been proven the posters here haven't a GD CLUE!

Can only imagine is wishful thinking their cards will be "worth" more when the speculators sell them.