Contemporary Baseball Era Committee for Managers/Executives/Umpires for Hall of Fame

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Pinella and White wouldn't bother me. I'd put Froemming in long before West.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

Pinella and White wouldn't bother me. I'd put Froemming in long before West.

Bruce Froemming is a HOF umpire, incredible career, 50 years in the game, incredible integrity, respected the game, was fair, and never made it about himself.
The other guy who should get in is John McSherry, RIP, and Eric Gregg, RIP.

[Misunderestimated]

I think the two best GM-Execs of the contemporary ERA are not on the ballot:
Theo Epstein and Brian Cashman.
Both are relatively young and Cashman (who might be the most perfectly named figure in baseball history) is still an active GM.

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by Misunderestimated

I think the two best GM-Execs of the contemporary ERA are not on the ballot:
Theo Epstein and Brian Cashman.
Both are relatively young and Cashman (who might be the most perfectly named figure in baseball history) is still an active GM.

Theo is on the Contemporary Era committee. It's either too early or a great way to stuff the ballot box depending on how you look at it.

Even if one wants to pick apart the true merits of Theo, getting BOS + CHC to win a World Series...yeah, he's in. He slayed 2 dragons in 2 cities as an executive before turning 50.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

Theo is on the Contemporary Era committee. It's either too early or a great way to stuff the ballot box depending on how you look at it.

Even if one wants to pick apart the true merits of Theo, getting BOS + CHC to win a World Series...yeah, he's in. He slayed 2 dragons in 2 cities as an executive before turning 50.

+1

[perezfan]

Bob Howsam built the Big Red Machine. And on a very small budget, to boot. Whether or not he deserves enshrinement is one thing, but I would put him up against every single nominee on that mediocre list.

[Misunderestimated]

Best Managers (modern era) not in HOF:

Terry Francona
Bruce Bochy
Dusty Baker
(Bochy and Baker are the only 2 over 2000 Wins not yet in the HOF -- Francona made it to 1950)

Then

Pinella
Leyland
Gaston (he didn't quite win 1000 games which is historically low for a HOF Manager who wasn't a player/manager)
Davy Johnson
---
Raloh Houk
Joe Maddon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...nagers_by_wins
======

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bochy has 2100 losses too.

[Fred]

Bochy has (4) WS appearances and (3) WS titles. He's done well with clubs that were considered "small markets" with really conservative budgets. Now that he's with Texas and a team with a HUGE player budget, he seems to have done pretty good, not that he was horrible with the Padres and Giants.

The thing that holds Bochy back are more managerial losses than wins lifetime.

Hey, anybody have any thoughts on Harry Pulliam as an executive?

From Wikipedia:

"Harry Clay Pulliam (February 9, 1869 – July 29, 1909) was an American baseball executive who served as the sixth President of the National League. He served from 1903 until his death in 1909. He was president during the period in which the National League and the fledgling American League settled their hostilities and formed a National Agreement which led to the creation of the World Series."

[jayshum]

It's hard to decide how to rate managers because it depends so much on the players they have to work with. When Terry Francona was managing the Phillies, no one talked about how great he was as a manager, but the Phillies didn't have very good teams then. Bochy is a little under .500 for his career but has won 3 World Series so is he a Hall of Fame manager with a record under .500?

Was Joe Torre a great manager or was he just lucky to be the Yankees manager when Mariano Rivera and Derek Jeter (among others) happened to be on the team? When he was hired by the Yankees, the New York Daily News called him Clueless Joe based on his prior managing career which was well under .500 before he got to the Yankees. Did the Yankees win 4 World Series because of him or in spite of him being the manager?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jayshum

It's hard to decide how to rate managers because it depends so much on the players they have to work with. When Terry Francona was managing the Phillies, no one talked about how great he was as a manager, but the Phillies didn't have very good teams then. Bochy is a little under .500 for his career but has won 3 World Series so is he a Hall of Fame manager with a record under .500?

Was Joe Torre a great manager or was he just lucky to be the Yankees manager when Mariano Rivera and Derek Jeter (among others) happened to be on the team? When he was hired by the Yankees, the New York Daily News called him Clueless Joe based on his prior managing career which was well under .500 before he got to the Yankees. Did the Yankees win 4 World Series because of him or in spite of him being the manager?

How long was Casey Stengel a nobody as a manager? A long time.

[G1911]

What I am missing? White was a league president for five years. Is there some huge achievement I'm not aware of? What's the merit here?

[Misunderestimated]

SABR Bio for Bill White:
https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/bill...ports%20league.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by Misunderestimated

SABR Bio for Bill White:
https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/bill...ports%20league.

Brian that was a nice article.
White was a All Star caliber player, a decent announcer & the N.L. President

Here's my favorite White item an oversized Rawlings Premium, which was too big for my scanner bed.

[Misunderestimated]

While White's lofty ambitions and goals as a contributor were not fully realized I think his status and advocacy as a contributor (and a racial pioneer) are what the HOF will want to honor while he is still alive. Also,, following his retirement White was a voter on the Veterans Committee from 1994-2001.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by G1911

What I am missing? White was a league president for five years. Is there some huge achievement I'm not aware of? What's the merit here?

I believe White himself lamented that despite his best efforts, he wasn't able to change much in terms of getting more Black executives hired in baseball.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I believe White himself lamented that despite his best efforts, he wasn't able to change much in terms of getting more Black executives hired in baseball.

You see where I'm going here. Nobody is going to be able to identify any major accomplishment because he had none. The job was so important that it ceased to exist a few years later when the leagues officially merged in, with most power having been centered in the commissioners office for decades already. I fail to see a merit based argument here and I don't think anyone will even try to make one.

[MVSNYC]

I have to say, I think all 4 managers are likely worthy. And I'd rank them as such:

Leyland, Piniella, Johnson, Gaston

[dgo71]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

I'd put Froemming in long before West.

I was very surprised that Froemming's name was not on the ballot, especially when considering Eddie Montague made the cut. Nothing against Montague, a fine umpire in his own right, but a distant second to Froemming in my mind. I would much rather have seen Froemming on this ballot over Cito Gaston. I find it a little weird that they elect umpires in the first place, but since that road's been paved, leaving off the name of one of the best to ever do it is a puzzling move.

I kind of expected West to be in the conversation. Love him or hate him, his longevity will get him in. If evaluating managers is tough, evaluating the HOF chances of umpires is even tougher, but I think it mostly comes down to longevity and postseasons, and West has those. I'm not really advocating for his induction, but I get why he's on the ballot, and why he will most likely get in, if not this time then the next time umpires are considered.