Questions About "Modern" Cards

[clydepepper]

One of the afore-mentioned 'Double Walters' - which I originally purchased, by the way, from Leon, his ownself.

1923 WG7 Walter Mails Game Walter Johnson SGC 80.jpg

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

One of the afore-mentioned 'Double Walters' - which I originally purchased, by the way, from Leon, his ownself.

Incredible card, Robbie, what's the other "double WaJo?" As far as culling, most of us have had to do that from time to time, and I have found it to be relatively painless in the end.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Incredible card, Robbie, what's the other "double WaJo?" As far as culling, most of us have had to do that from time to time, and I have found it to be relatively painless in the end.

The other 'Double Walter' is the other 'Walter', Walter Mails, since they were his card set...which I still think is so cool.


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[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

The other 'Double Walter' is the other 'Walter', Walter Mails, since they were his card set...which I still think is so cool.
.

Of course, duh-uh. I'm guessing that card is unique, a player having a card in his own set of players.

[ValKehl]

Raymond, I was thinking that your "other 'Double Walter'" meant that you had both the red and blue back versions of the WG7 card of WaJo. BTW, which back of WaJo do you have?

[Snowman]

1986 Fleer Basketball is one of the most widely collects sets in the hobby. But other than that, I can't think of any other modern sets that are highly sought after.

[Exhibitman]

I literally wrote a column on this last week. Here is an excerpt:

I am hearing a great deal of protest from modern card folks about the attitudes of collectors of vintage cards. Basically, it takes the form of a whine about how it isn’t nice to crap all over someone’s way of collecting, and it isn’t fair to label people who collect modern cards, participate in breaks, etc., as “stupid”.

That isn’t what is going on at all. People are not being called "stupid"; some collectors are being told they are engaged in highly speculative investment activities, spurred on by investment touting and log-rolling that tries to gloss modern cards as investment grade items, and they should watch their sixes. Collect whatever makes you smile. I am into utterly worthless but absolutely beautiful prewar Japanese printed invitations, greeting cards and postcards. But when you start talking the financial end of it, you walk into the buzzsaw of critical analysis.

Now, the criticism/advice isn’t gratuitous. Those of us voicing the warnings on modern are not making personal attacks and aren’t doing it for s***s and giggles. We see ourselves less as scolds than as Cassandras. No one likes to hear "remember thou art mortal", but we say it anyway. Long-time collectors have real world perspectives on this: we are sitting on monster boxes full of it. What has been expressed is the wonder at how history repeats and how the lessons of the past typically are relearned the hard way by those who are new to the field and are convinced that this time it is going to be different than it has been in every single other speculative bubble over the last 40 years. Ignorance can be bliss, but in investments, ignorance is fatal, and as the hobby evolves into a form of alternative investment, more money than ever is at risk, yet many act as if risk was non-existent and us old farts are just being d**ks about it.

I happen to think, from what I see, that a sizable percentage of newbies are dangerously ignorant of the hobby’s boom-and-bust cycles. They have never seen, nor do they comprehend, what happens in the hobby when we have a basic, high unemployment, 6–18-month recession. Sales flatline and prices drop. Not a problem if you are holding a card with a population of a few hundred. It will come back. When no one is buying abundant, hyped cards on the flip, however, these newer participants are going to crap themselves then sell right into a price-demand death spiral. They always do. It crashes the items that are speculative, thinly collected, not otherwise subject to genuine collector demand, or with a massive pop. Does that mean every Kaboom! or Jambalaya is going to fall into the commons bins? Of course not. But prices will drop hard and fast and when your financial model depends on rapidly laddering prices, look out below.

I don't think there is a serious debate to be had that a sizable percentage of newbies are engaging in a form of young player/new card speculation that has a long track record of failure. The cabinets of longtime collectors are littered with the cardboard images of flashes in the pan, from Ron Kittle to Kevin Maas; we've all got piles of junk (damn you Keston Hiura). Most prospects will go sour, as will their cards. There is no reason to believe that the people speculatively accumulating cards of shiny new players will have a different outcome than everyone else who followed that strategy in the last 40 years. What does stand out today is the steep trajectory of the price increases and the resulting incredible sums at risk, so much more than in any other rookie card run. I don't really care that the twenty bucks I put into Topps Walgreens yellow Hiura cards is gone; I would be sh****ng egg rolls if I'd spent thousands on a signed shiny limited edition thingy. The scary thing about modern is that there are tons of very expensive signed shiny limited edition thingies that place really large sums of money at risk and that new ones come out practically every week.

The unprecedented level of hype is real too. What is shiny and new today is not so shiny or new next week. There is a strategy being deployed to manipulate people who do not have sufficient perspective into buying items and services that are not likely to have real value over the long haul. In that regard, Fanatics and Panini and all of the breakers and influencers remind me of stock bucket shops slogging dodgy IPOs. There is an epic degree of pumping by influencers, manufacturers, and the people who make money off the speculators (the service providers like PSA and Goldin). What is missing is end user collector demand for all this product. The proof of that, as it was in past crazes, is how many of these cards are being slabbed, sold and resold rapidly rather than disappearing into long treasured collections. 30 years ago, it was 100 count stacks of Gregg Jeffries and Gary Sheffield 89 UD cards. Today it is the latest shiny, varied, limited edition card. Both scenarios featured rapid price rises and frenzied trading of abundantly-available cards. That form of price laddering looks great but it has a nasty way of crashing, especially when the economy cools (e.g. unemployment rises); it is true with IPOs, it was true of every rookie card bubble, and there is no reason to think it will not be true here again. Take NFTs as a cautionary tale of hype without substance. The believers in NFTs are strangely silent now because they got cleaned out when the hype failed and the music stopped playing; Bored Ape NFT, anyone?

From a financial perspective, I am not sure the newbs understand that the hobby is a particularly brutal investment when it comes to new players and modern cards because the bet can go to zero very fast and there is no hedging or exit strategy available. Even in a falling stock market, you can set a stop loss and get out, and real estate never goes to zero, it cycles, but when Sam Horn goes down the tubes there is no exit and no bottom except the commons bin. Babe Ruth does not go down the crapper the way the latest, greatest thing will when his WAR falls to 1.8 (yeah, looking at you, Pete Alonso).

And a card: