Poll: BUYERS preferred National Location

[BobbyStrawberry]

I voted for Vegas, but I'd be more likely to attend if it moved around to different parts of the country. Opportunity to see various cities and make a vacation out of it.

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by jcmtiger

I prefer SW FLORIDA Because I live there & we know how to air condition our Buildings unlike any of the northern cities.. Lol

Plus, 10 minutes from RSW airport to Hertz arena where you could hold a card show.

[Steve D]

Dallas or Houston.

Steve

[theshowandme]

I will drive/fly anywhere but would complain the most about Dallas, Vegas, etc.

Just keep it in Chicago if you can.

[griffon512]

Originally Posted by jethrod3

I wish they promoters would consider Indianapolis as a site. While there wouldn't be a whole lot to do there in the summer (though they do have an nice zoo and an excellent Children's Museum), most folks that come to the National are coming for the National anyway. Indy is a very accessible major city, by road and by air, with a nice convention center and many restaurants downtown (that now stay open well after 8 PM!!!). The convention center has air conditioning, and they have hosted Gen-Con there every year as well as the NFL Experience when the city hosted the Super Bowl.

Love this idea! I imagine hotels and food would be cheaper as well.

[wolf441]

I wish they would bump it around the country. I like Chicago as a city, but not a fan of the venue. I'd like to see Dallas, Seattle, Denver, Indy, Charlotte, Boston, etc...

[Vintagedeputy]

East Coast somewhere.

[toledo_mudhen]

Kansas City - Central Location, Has the venue, Hands down the best BBQ in the world.

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by wolf441

I wish they would bump it around the country. I like Chicago as a city, but not a fan of the venue. I'd like to see Dallas, Seattle, Denver, Indy, Charlotte, Boston, etc...

I agree it should rotate around more for both the show and the experience.

In addition it would attract people that cannot always go to far distance shows.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

Forget NYC unless you are packing a firearm. New York City street crime is out of control. My wife and I live in Connecticut and would go down to the City 4/5 times a year on the weekends. No more. Mayors DeBlasio & Adams have turned it into a drug infested shooting gallery, and are more concerned with limiting plastic utensils than fighting crime!

Time to turn Fox News off and put the NY Post down.

You must be kidding me. A "shooting gallery."

NYC actually at near record LOW crime rates. In the 1980s there were more murders in the Port Authority building in a month than there is in all of NYC in a month currently.

But it is clear that, where murder is concerned, New York City remained one of the safest big cities in the country per capita in 2022, as an analysis from the conservative Illinois organization Wirepoints found. The city’s murder rate in 2022 – roughly 5 murders per 100,000 people – was the third-lowest among the country’s 10 most populous cities, beating Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Phoenix, Philadelphia, San Antonio and Dallas – and better than dozens of cities outside the top 10 on the population list.

The list of US cities with higher murder rates than New York City in 2022 includes New Orleans, St. Louis, Baltimore, Detroit, Denver, Miami, Atlanta, Tampa, Orlando, Jacksonville, Las Vegas, Buffalo, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Washington DC, Kansas City, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Memphis, Nashville, Charlotte, Pittsburgh, Minneapolis, St. Paul, Oakland, Sacramento, Albuquerque, Portland, Newark, Cleveland, Columbus and Toledo.


https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/17/polit...agg/index.html

[nolemmings]

I would love to go to New York, for nearly any reason at any time.

For purposes of this thread, though, I would like to see Las Vegas, or, if "other" is to be considered seriously, I would vote for Kansas City. Centrally located, great BBQ, great music and the Negro League Museum. A very underrated city IMO.

[griffon512]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Time to turn Fox News off and put the NY Post down.

You must be kidding me. A "shooting gallery."

NYC actually at near record LOW crime rates. In the 1980s there were more murders in the Port Authority building in a month than there is in all of NYC in a month currently.

But it is clear that, where murder is concerned, New York City remained one of the safest big cities in the country per capita in 2022, as an analysis from the conservative Illinois organization Wirepoints found. The city’s murder rate in 2022 – roughly 5 murders per 100,000 people – was the third-lowest among the country’s 10 most populous cities, beating Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Phoenix, Philadelphia, San Antonio and Dallas – and better than dozens of cities outside the top 10 on the population list.

The list of US cities with higher murder rates than New York City in 2022 includes New Orleans, St. Louis, Baltimore, Detroit, Denver, Miami, Atlanta, Tampa, Orlando, Jacksonville, Las Vegas, Buffalo, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Washington DC, Kansas City, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Memphis, Nashville, Charlotte, Pittsburgh, Minneapolis, St. Paul, Oakland, Sacramento, Albuquerque, Portland, Newark, Cleveland, Columbus and Toledo.


https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/17/polit...agg/index.html

No, you are wrong. There has been a roughly 1/3 increase in the seven major felony offenses in NYC over the last 5 years, after a steady downward trajectory for many years: https://www.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/down...-2000-2022.pdf

If you only get your news from CNN or The NY Times you'll have a different view, so better to get objective data.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by griffon512

No, you are wrong. There has been a roughly 1/3 increase in the seven major felony offenses in NYC over the last 5 years, after a steady downward trajectory for many years: https://www.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/down...-2000-2022.pdf

If you only get your news from CNN or The NY Times you'll have a different view, so better to get objective data.

I think the numbers are correct in both cases, but I would feel (and would be) much safer in NYC where 433 out of 8,992,908 people were murdered last year than in, say, Dallas, where 248 out of 1,336,347 people were murdered last year.

[bigfish]

Originally Posted by griffon512

No, you are wrong. There has been a roughly 1/3 increase in the seven major felony offenses in NYC over the last 5 years, after a steady downward trajectory for many years: https://www.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/down...-2000-2022.pdf

If you only get your news from CNN or The NY Times you'll have a different view, so better to get objective data.

James, Ty for an intelligent response backed with some real data.

I vote for Las Vegas. I think they could handle the complexities of hosting a large show.

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Time to turn Fox News off and put the NY Post down.

You must be kidding me. A "shooting gallery."

NYC actually at near record LOW crime rates. In the 1980s there were more murders in the Port Authority building in a month than there is in all of NYC in a month currently.

But it is clear that, where murder is concerned, New York City remained one of the safest big cities in the country per capita in 2022, as an analysis from the conservative Illinois organization Wirepoints found. The city’s murder rate in 2022 – roughly 5 murders per 100,000 people – was the third-lowest among the country’s 10 most populous cities, beating Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Phoenix, Philadelphia, San Antonio and Dallas – and better than dozens of cities outside the top 10 on the population list.

The list of US cities with higher murder rates than New York City in 2022 includes New Orleans, St. Louis, Baltimore, Detroit, Denver, Miami, Atlanta, Tampa, Orlando, Jacksonville, Las Vegas, Buffalo, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Washington DC, Kansas City, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Memphis, Nashville, Charlotte, Pittsburgh, Minneapolis, St. Paul, Oakland, Sacramento, Albuquerque, Portland, Newark, Cleveland, Columbus and Toledo.


https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/17/polit...agg/index.html

As usual, you are beyond clueless! If you are so confident in the safety net of NYC, try taking a subway ride during late night off-peak hours. This has nothing to do with Fox News, but the FACT that crime is out of control in all big cities including New York because of no-bail policies. Wake up to reality!

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

As usual, you are beyond clueless! If you are so confident in the safety net of NYC, try taking a subway ride during late night off-peak hours. This has nothing to do with Fox News, but the FACT that crime is out of control in all big cities including New York because of no-bail policies. Wake up to reality!

But, but, big city with "woke" policies = SCARY!

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

But, but, big city with "woke" policies = SCARY!

Exactly. By all means stay away if you are frightened. No judgment here.

Like most any large cities, there are good parts and bad parts, good times and bad times when analyzing crime. I really wouldn't plan on being on a subway in the dead of night, and of course most other cities do not even have subways so as to compare.

Chicago has for decades been called the city where all the horrific shootings and gang activities take place. Yet every three years or so the National takes place on the other side of town during the day, and I really haven't heard anyone here complaining that they won't attend because of crime in the city.

[RCMcKenzie]

Deer Valley

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Exactly. By all means stay away if you are frightened. No judgment here.

Like most any large cities, there are good parts and bad parts, good times and bad times when analyzing crime. I really wouldn't plan on being on a subway in the dead of night, and of course most other cities do not even have subways so as to compare.

Chicago has for decades been called the city where all the horrific shootings and gang activities take place. Yet every three years or so the National takes place on the other side of town during the day, and I really haven't heard anyone here complaining that they won't attend because of crime in the city.

Thing is, it is not just about Chicago. It's also problems with getting through the airport/TSA, and airplane travel/dealing with other crazies on the plane. Put the three together (TSA, other plane passengers, destination city), and I'll skip it.

Give me a place where I feel safe, and that I can drive to, and I'm all in!

Steve

[bobbvc]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

The poll is just more of a poll of where people live and they will obviously going to choose WHERE one lives near. For example, Robert only wants Atlantic City because he lives near there. Right, Robert ? Attachment 582632

This is true. I'd like the National in San Diego. But San Diego would also be a great place for the National.

[nwfsteve]

I love Vegas but know the convention center is way off the strip and not the easiest place to get to. Baltimore checked all my boxes and AC is fine. Chicago is a no. I didn’t like facility or the area and will not return.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

Forget NYC unless you are packing a firearm. New York City street crime is out of control. My wife and I live in Connecticut and would go down to the City 4/5 times a year on the weekends. No more. Mayors DeBlasio & Adams have turned it into a drug infested shooting gallery, and are more concerned with limiting plastic utensils than fighting crime!

I live on Long Island, work in the Bronx, oldest daughter just graduated FIT. I hear what you are saying, but the Javits Center host Comic Con every year (never been). I don’t think crime is the issue as much as the “expense” of hotels.

I might fly to Cleveland next year just to check this out.

[refz]

Atlantic City, just for the convenience. Baltimore was my favorite, again convenience plus everything including stadium was walking distance.

[Section103]

I'd be out of my mind if it ever ended up in Denver or KC. Zero damn chance. It NEEDS to MOVE. Staying in select locations is strangling the life out of the hobby. Period.

[ChasingPaper]

I feel that most people will cast their vote on tradition, familiarity and not really look at other options in depth or with any objectivity.

[pawpawdiv9]

of course, i vote Atlanta...but i wouldn't mind Alabama or Tennnesee or Florida.
as for Atlanta traffic, i work back n forth to atl everyday. Traffic is easy 3-6am in mornings, after that its congested.
As for afternoon, do it before 2pm...after that, ALL southbound or whatever is logged-jammed proabably till 6pm.
Luckily, i head North in the afternoons. And dont drive in the RAIN!!! Its not you, but the other drivers to watch out for!
Just dont do it!!!

[Chris-Counts]

It's interesting that Las Vegas received the second most votes. I'll bet that many of those who picked Anaheim would be thrilled if the National was in Vegas. At the very least, there should be a West Coast National every few years or so. The last one I went to was Anaheim about 20 years ago.

[Exhibitman]

Last Anaheim show was 2006. That was a great one for me, not the least of which is for what I did not do (sell a few cards that have skyrocketed in value) as for what I got there. I haven't been back since but I decided to set up at the Labor Day weekend show down there this year. Should be interesting. I had to take a hotel room because it is just a bit too far (time-wise) to commute every day.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by toledo_mudhen

Kansas City - Central Location, Has the venue, Hands down the best BBQ in the world.

The problem there is that the area is ridiculously out of practically everyone else's way, yourself notwithstanding. Why not host it in Anchorage? Perhaps not so bad for Midwesterners, but the vast majority live far, far away.

Incidentally, Vegas is, too, but there's far more traffic and various better deals to be had as a result. That said, I think Vegas to be more popular with customers than dealers. I'm on the fence.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Vintageclout

Forget NYC unless you are packing a firearm. New York City street crime is out of control. My wife and I live in Connecticut and would go down to the City 4/5 times a year on the weekends. No more. Mayors DeBlasio & Adams have turned it into a drug infested shooting gallery, and are more concerned with limiting plastic utensils than fighting crime!

In my memory, which is a long time, it has always been that way. The 1970s? Watch "The French Connection." The 1980s? Holy s**t! I guess Giuliani improved things by ignoring the Constitution, but I think the courts ruled you can't do that. Of course, now all the center cities are rotting from Covid flight. I wonder if things are getting any better in New York now that a long-time cop is mayor? The truth is, there have always been two of every big city in this country. I grew up and spent most of my life in Washington, D.C., and never had any trouble because I knew where to go and where not to. If you don't know your way around any city of any size, you have no business going there. It's a shame, but that's the way it's always been in my lifetime.

[Jewish-collector]

I heard from a few dealers that a convention center needs to have a minimum of 600,000 contiguous square feet. The Donald E. Stephens Convention Center in Rosemont used the entire 600,000 contiguous square feet this year. Unrelated to venue availability, scheduling, costs, fees, hotels, etc,...here are the only convention centers that have 600,000 or more contiguous space:

McCormick Place
Las Vegas Convention Center
Orange County Convention Center
Georgia World Congress Center
New Orleans Morial Convention Center
World Equestrian Center
International Exposition Center (I-X Center)
Kay Bailey Hutchison Convention Center
Pennsylvania Convention Center
Sands Expo and Convention Center
Mandalay Bay Convention Center
George R. Brown Convention Center
Jacob K. Javits Convention Center
Donald E. Stephens Convention Center

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

. Below is a break down of the dealers from this years national by name and booths. NY, NJ, PA combined are top 3 and make up 30%.

This is something of a self-fulfilling prophecy. OF COURSE more dealers will come from the east if you hold the show in the Midwest or East.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Tabe

This is something of a self-fulfilling prophecy. OF COURSE more dealers will come from the east if you hold the show in the Midwest or East.

Sure, but there simply are far more dealers from that area. The greatest concentration has always been in the Northeast. If the show was held in Van Buren, Arkansas, it wouldn't magically have a huge abundance of dealers from that state just because that's where it was being held. Also remember that people have their table spaces reserved years in advance, so you're going to see mostly the same faces no matter where it's held.

[SAllen2556]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

I heard from a few dealers that a convention center needs to have a minimum of 600,000 contiguous square feet. The Donald E. Stephens Convention Center in Rosemont used the entire 600,000 contiguous square feet this year. Unrelated to venue availability, scheduling, costs, fees, hotels, etc,...here are the only convention centers that have 600,000 or more contiguous space:

McCormick Place
Las Vegas Convention Center
Orange County Convention Center
Georgia World Congress Center
New Orleans Morial Convention Center
World Equestrian Center
International Exposition Center (I-X Center)
Kay Bailey Hutchison Convention Center
Pennsylvania Convention Center
Sands Expo and Convention Center
Mandalay Bay Convention Center
George R. Brown Convention Center
Jacob K. Javits Convention Center
Donald E. Stephens Convention Center

Cobo Center was formerly called Cobo Hall and Cobo Arena. It is a large convention venue located along Jefferson Avenue in downtown Detroit at 1 Washington Boulevard. It is named after Albert E. Cobo,1 the mayor of Detroit from 1950 – 1957. It was designed by Gino Rossetti and its doors opened in 1960. Renovations to the building structure took place in 1989 and 2012. The current 2,400,000 square foot complex contains 723,000 square feet of exhibition space, with 623,000 square feet contiguous.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

As I said last year, what about Cincinnati? Such a rich baseball history: the cradle of pro ball. So much to see, ample lodging accommodations as far as I'm aware. It's an underrated town. If everyone loves Chicago so much for geographic reasons, then Cincinnati isn't that far removed. It's actually closer for everyone on the east coast who'd be travelling overland.

I'd also like to see Detroit, but that's perhaps more for selfish reasons because it's so close by.

[BeanTown]

Maybe the powers to be, who run the National are just afraid of change. They might not realize they could open up the hobby even more, in different parts of the Country. Not sure why it’s the same ole routine year after year. Maybe kick backs are happening, or some kind of perks which keep them loyal to only three places.

[Seven]

As someone that lives in NY, still regularly takes the train, and is often in the city, It's fine. Would I want to be in the subway, or in a rougher part at 3 in the morning? No, but there's pretty much nowhere that I would want to be at 3 AM.

I would love if they did it at the Javits center. I know Comiccon is held there, but I'm sure it's too much of a money issue.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Sure, but there simply are far more dealers from that area. The greatest concentration has always been in the Northeast. If the show was held in Van Buren, Arkansas, it wouldn't magically have a huge abundance of dealers from that state just because that's where it was being held. Also remember that people have their table spaces reserved years in advance, so you're going to see mostly the same faces no matter where it's held.

But we're not talking about Arkansas, are we? Do you really think there would be trouble getting dealers for a California or Vegas National? And, again, it's self-fulfilling - if you announce AC 3 years in advance, of course, you're going to get northeast dealers. But the balance would shift if they announced Vegas for 2029.

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Sure, but there simply are far more dealers from that area. The greatest concentration has always been in the Northeast. If the show was held in Van Buren, Arkansas, it wouldn't magically have a huge abundance of dealers from that state just because that's where it was being held. Also remember that people have their table spaces reserved years in advance, so you're going to see mostly the same faces no matter where it's held.

Well, big pig on the hill would roll down and set up.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Seven

As someone that lives in NY, still regularly takes the train, and is often in the city, It's fine. Would I want to be in the subway, or in a rougher part at 3 in the morning? No, but there's pretty much nowhere that I would want to be at 3 AM.

This. I would not want to break down on any country road in the middle of the night and not have my gun with me. Or be in any neighborhood bar in one of these small towns they sing about and bump into or even look at some big drunk guy the "wrong way." And I'm a 70-something white guy! This is a really violent country, and if you want to tell me the cities have some kind of monopoly on that, I'll ask you how long it's been since your state had a school shot up and a bunch of kids killed? Probably no more than a few months at best.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Sure, but there simply are far more dealers from that area. The greatest concentration has always been in the Northeast. If the show was held in Van Buren, Arkansas, it wouldn't magically have a huge abundance of dealers from that state just because that's where it was being held. Also remember that people have their table spaces reserved years in advance, so you're going to see mostly the same faces no matter where it's held.

Hey, that would be the easiest National I've ever traveled to since I'm already there!

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Tabe

But we're not talking about Arkansas, are we? Do you really think there would be trouble getting dealers for a California or Vegas National? And, again, it's self-fulfilling - if you announce AC 3 years in advance, of course, you're going to get northeast dealers. But the balance would shift if they announced Vegas for 2029.

That's not really how it works. Remember that table space at this show is such a hot commodity that any additional space wouldn't first simply open up for dealers just because they're from that part of the country. There are already tons of other dealers from all over the place who have been waiting their turn and trying in vain to get in.

[LOUCARDFAN]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

I heard from a few dealers that a convention center needs to have a minimum of 600,000 contiguous square feet. The Donald E. Stephens Convention Center in Rosemont used the entire 600,000 contiguous square feet this year. Unrelated to venue availability, scheduling, costs, fees, hotels, etc,...here are the only convention centers that have 600,000 or more contiguous space:

McCormick Place
Las Vegas Convention Center
Orange County Convention Center
Georgia World Congress Center
New Orleans Morial Convention Center
World Equestrian Center
International Exposition Center (I-X Center)
Kay Bailey Hutchison Convention Center
Pennsylvania Convention Center
Sands Expo and Convention Center
Mandalay Bay Convention Center
George R. Brown Convention Center
Jacob K. Javits Convention Center
Donald E. Stephens Convention Center

Add the Kentucky Exposition Center in Louisville, KY to that list. It has 1.2 million square feet of contiguous space and is the 6th largest facility in the U.S. Louisville would make a tremendous National location. Louisville is within driving distance of 60% of the U.S. population and easy to fly into. Less than a mile away from Muhammad Ali International Airport. 42 neighboring hotels around the facility and another 8,000 hotel rooms within just a few miles away. 25,000 on site parking spaces and plenty of things to to around the Louisville area.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

This. I would not want to break down on any country road in the middle of the night and not have my gun with me. Or be in any neighborhood bar in one of these small towns they sing about and bump into or even look at some big drunk guy the "wrong way." And I'm a 70-something white guy! This is a really violent country, and if you want to tell me the cities have some kind of monopoly on that, I'll ask you how long it's been since your state had a school shot up and a bunch of kids killed? Probably no more than a few months at best.

Hank,

Honestly couldn't have worded it better myself. I'll freely admit I'm not happy with the direction NY has taken over the past few years, but I have never not felt safe living here. Especially in the part of NY that I'm in. Yes we have our issues, but I'd challenge people to not find issues with other places.

I understand the financial difficulties of hosting a show in NYC, but The National could easily do it, in other places that are close to the city.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

That's not really how it works. Remember that table space at this show is such a hot commodity that any additional space wouldn't first simply open up for dealers just because they're from that part of the country. There are already tons of other dealers from all over the place who have been waiting their turn and trying in vain to get in.

So, what you've just said is that there would be no problem filling up a Vegas National with northeast dealers. In other words, there's no reason to NOT have one on the west coast.

[doug.goodman]

I'm a guy who travels to somewhere between 100 & 200 cities each year, I can say with confidence that there is nowhere that I am "afraid" to go.

Are there places within these cities that people shouldn't go during time frames that are less trafficked than others? Certainly.

All cities, be them politically blue, red or otherwise; woke, asleep or just dozing gently, have some issues, but any city with a population base to support the infrastructure needed to have the types of venue we are discussing are safe and capable of holding the national.

Please spare us all the Fox vs CNN drivel, we all think what we think, and this board isn't going to change any of our minds.

As a guy who works for George Lopez and for Kid Rock, I'm confident we can all get along while talking about baseball cards.

To me the most important thing in regards to travel would be an airport, or airports that have non-stop flights from a high percentage of the country.

Obviously, the majority of the country north east of a line drawn between Chicago and Atlanta have a built in advantage due to the ability of lots of people to drive.

Doug (but I hate Vegas)

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

I'm a guy who travels to somewhere between 100 & 200 cities each year, I can say with confidence that there is nowhere that I am "afraid" to go. Are there places within these cities that people shouldn't go during time frames that are less trafficked than others? Certainly. All cities, be them politically blue, red or otherwise; woke, asleep or just dozing gently, have some issues, but any city with a population base to support the infrastructure needed to have the types of venue we are discussing are safe and capable of holding the national. Please spare us all the Fox vs CNN drivel, we all think what we think, and this board isn't going to change any of our minds. As a guy who works for George Lopez and for Kid Rock, I'm confident we can all get along while talking about baseball cards.
To me the most important thing in regards to travel would be an airport, or airports that have non-stop flights from a high percentage of the country.
Obviously, the majority of the country north east of a line drawn between Chicago and Atlanta have a built in advantage due to the ability of lots of people to drive. Doug (but I hate Vegas)

+1. A lot of people seem to be forgetting that dealers have to get their stuff to the venue, and that means driving. With the preponderance of dealers, AHs, and corporate entities in general in the Northeast, Chicago is about as far as you can go to make them happy while also trying to get somewhat close to dealers in other parts of the country, thus all the shows there. I wonder has there been such a thing as a "West Coast National" or a "MIdwest National" in, say, Dallas, Kansas City, or the like to test whether there are enough dealers, corporations, etc., that would do those shows but won't go as far as Chicago, Cleveland, and especially AC, to support such a thing.

[rand1com]

+2. No chance of dealers voting to go to Vegas.

Chicago is by far the best venue for dealers.

I have done multiple Nationals in Cleveland, Chicago, Atlantic City, and Baltimore and Chicago is the best even though I am roughly an 11 hour drive from all of them.

I am 30 hours from Vegas. No way I am driving 10 hours a day for 3 days each way and no way I am shipping a cargo van of goods to Vegas either.

[kailes2872]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

To be fair, I've never visited Atlantic City, but I'm surprised to see it declared the country's (world's?) top restaurant destination.

They might have gotten that distinction on Chef Vola's alone!

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by kailes2872

They might have gotten that distinction on Chef Vola's alone!

AC has some truly excellent restaurants. However for real foodies it ain't Vegas.

I have zero doub I could get a far better meal one mile from the AC Convention center than I could at almost any current National site.