Best non prewar mainstream card to invest on

[BeanTown]

Which one still has the greatest potential of rising in value?

[darwinbulldog]

With the caveat that I'd be buying up any of them if I expected much of a rise in value in the future and that at the moment I am not buying any of them, I'd guess pins. I know there's a whole hobby of pin collectors who mostly don't overlap with baseball card collectors, and that could change at some point to drive baseball pin prices up closer to baseball card prices.

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

With the caveat that I'd be buying up any of them if I expected much of a rise in value in the future and that at the moment I am not buying any of them, I'd guess pins. I know there's a whole hobby of pin collectors who mostly don't overlap with baseball card collectors, and that could change at some point to drive baseball pin prices up closer to baseball card prices.

That’s exactly how I thought back in early 2000s with postcards. Try to find the right stuff that still has a lot of meat left on the bone. Plus the TPG companies won’t have as much influences on the everything on the list, other than being authentic for what it is.

[mrreality68]

I agree I feel pins have the most upside especially if they have the player on it and then bonus if it also has advertising related

[Snapolit1]

I disagree on pins. Hakes has wonderfdul catalogs full of beautiful pins. They leave me cold. Even cool old Gehrig pins just don't move the needle for me. Often kind of small and boring imagery. I think will always be niche.

[Rhotchkiss]

Disregarding that I feel supplements are effectively newspapers/magazines, I think newspapers and magazines (not supplements) have the most upside for one huge reason- they are the only thing in the poll that “card company” TPGs have not yet authenticated.

Look at supplements - M101-2s were not worth much until BVG started slabbing them. Recently, PSA (the market’s “preferred” TPG) started slabbing M101-2s and the prices have gone through the roof. I believe the same phenomena has happened with photos (but not sure bc I don’t collect them). If/when PSA starts slabbing magazines, newspapers and similar publications, they, like supplements, will take off.

If SGC was thinking, they should charge into this market and establish a position (hint hint)

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Disregarding that I feel supplements are effectively newspapers/magazines, I think newspapers and magazines (not supplements) have the most upside for one huge reason- they are the only thing in the poll that “card company” TPGs have not yet authenticated.

Look at supplements - M101-2s were not worth much until BVG started slabbing them. Recently, PSA (the market’s “preferred” TPG) started slabbing M101-2s and the prices have gone through the roof. I believe the same phenomena has happened with photos (but not sure bc I don’t collect them). If/when PSA starts slabbing magazines, newspapers and similar publications, they, like supplements, will take off.

If SGC was thinking, they should charge into this market and establish a position (hint hint)

That’s a great point Ryan, and that’s why they were listed as two different categories. Supplements come out of papers but papers and magazines are not graded as a whole that I’m aware of. Grading does move the needle on this group which we have seen happen on pins, type 1 photos and now supplements. Early poll results show tile 1 photos in the lead, but they have taken off over the last 5 years and wondered if they still have the most upside now that the secret is out (sorta speaking)

[Peter_Spaeth]

I recall seeing M101-2s in BVG holders that I would swear were trimmed.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Disregarding that I feel supplements are effectively newspapers/magazines, I think newspapers and magazines (not supplements) have the most upside for one huge reason- they are the only thing in the poll that “card company” TPGs have not yet authenticated.

Look at supplements - M101-2s were not worth much until BVG started slabbing them. Recently, PSA (the market’s “preferred” TPG) started slabbing M101-2s and the prices have gone through the roof. I believe the same phenomena has happened with photos (but not sure bc I don’t collect them). If/when PSA starts slabbing magazines, newspapers and similar publications, they, like supplements, will take off.

If SGC was thinking, they should charge into this market and establish a position (hint hint)

Can you imagine the slabs they would use for these? They would be gigantic.

I just don't think there is huge growth in either as ephemera just never brings large crowds and is incredibly niche. We now have a populous born in the 2000's forward that have zero connection to newspapers or magazines as daily and monthly publications in physical form have effectively died.

I also can feel no joy whatsoever in owning a magazine slabbed up that I cannot even see or read the content. When CGC started the comic book grading I saw no enjoyment in that and have many friends that collect that refuse to touch them for the complete lack of enjoyment. I admit, they do have an important spot, but they are not as cemented as cards due to the inability to read them.

I would say personally that the answer is more than likely "none of the above" if I was thinking investment value specifically for value growth. These are often rotating the last few years at peaks hard to match, I can't see exponential growth worth a risk of large investment. My guess would be that clean visually displayable items like type 1s and supplements would continue to hold with the logical ups and downs that time will bring.

If I was to put something on this list it would be used/scored programs from important events. Tickets saw a large upswing due to the connection they had to a specific date or record. Programs are valuable but still could have room, and if there was a still displayable piece of slabbed ephemera after a change in policy, it would be a game program.

[oldjudge]

The good news is that they would make attractive serving trays. My vote is for pins. Some of the earliest individual images of HOF players are in the Whitehead and Hoag set. Some rare Cobb and Wagner’s are also in some early twentieth century pin sets. Ruth pins have already taken off and the ones I have mentioned have certainly increased in value, but given their rarity, nice images, and early player presentations I think they still have a long way to go.

BTW Ryan, they already grade magazines—comics, Playboys have been in slabs for a long time.

[bcbgcbrcb]

To me, photos is the obvious answer and the poll results bear that out. Surprised nobody who posted comments has opted for that choice yet.

[Rhotchkiss]

Jay, I know- I have a graded, Hefner Signed playboy #1 (below)

I said “card company” TPGs. I think PSA, SGC or BVG would need to get in the game for graded prewar papers/mags to take off.

Some pics - here are three mags I have and the only type 1 photo I own that’s not mounted on a cabinet or CDv

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

To me, photos is the obvious answer and the poll results bear that out. Surprised nobody who posted comments has opted for that choice yet.

My 1st choice would be photos then pins, Type 1's have increased in value quite a bit so pins my have more room to move.

[rhettyeakley]

Quality “Type 1” Photos are already so valuable as it is and more people are getting into them.

Personally, they don’t really do much for me as for the most part I collect things that were distributed to the general public and that isn’t Type 1 photos. They almost more akin to a piece of art than a collectible to me.

I have always loved rare player pinbacks like the Cameo Pepsin [Whitehead & Hoag], PM1, Luxello, Morton’s, Hermes, etc. and feel those have a lot of room to move if the needle ever shifts in their favor. Some of those issues are criminally undervalued given the rarity.

[BeanTown]

I forgot they grade the magazines. If/when they do newspapers I have a nice Tribune one, when Dewey beat Truman as the headline. I don’t think you can go wrong as far as anything in the poll. Pins I agree with Jay on as far as rarity for late 19th century and early 20th century players. They are very tough to find without rust and having a paper back still intact.

Here are some items to represent all in the poll except sheet music. I don’t own the type 1 Cobb image.

[Mark17]

For people looking for an alternate investment to cards, consider this:

Many years ago, an AH focused on Game Used jerseys, primarily the older stuff. They named their company Grey Flannel. While other AH frequently offered vintage GU flannels, Grey Flannel specialized in them.

Last March, Grey Flannel held an auction featuring just bats. Their previous auction that included jerseys was November 13, a full 6 months ago. Since then, they've been taking consignments, gearing up for their next auction, on June 11 of this year. They put up their full preview the other day. Here's what's surprising to me... Out of 1365 total lots in their upcoming auction, only 21 are flannel baseball jerseys (or full uniforms.) That works out to well under 2% of Grey Flannel's total offerings.

Yes, I know, basketball and football jerseys have become a big part of the AH scene, and I'm not knocking this auction because there is a lot of really great stuff in it. My point is, flannel jerseys are really drying up.

On an anecdotal note, I got a 1960 Indians home jersey (Dick Stigman) on ebay for $1065 with shipping and insurance 2 1/2 years ago, during the so-called covid boom. Last weekend I was the underbidder on a very similar 1960 Indians home shirt (Walt Bond) at Heritage, that went for twice as much. Had I continued to chase it, who knows where it would've topped out.

Overall, across all AH, flannel offerings are getting scarce, which means values are bound to move north.

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by Mark17

For people looking for an alternate investment to cards, consider this:

Many years ago, an AH focused on Game Used jerseys, primarily the older stuff. They named their company Grey Flannel. While other AH frequently offered vintage GU flannels, Grey Flannel specialized in them.

Last March, Grey Flannel held an auction featuring just bats. Their previous auction that included jerseys was November 13, a full 6 months ago. Since then, they've been taking consignments, gearing up for their next auction, on June 11 of this year. They put up their full preview the other day. Here's what's surprising to me... Out of 1365 total lots in their upcoming auction, only 21 are flannel baseball jerseys (or full uniforms.) That works out to well under 2% of Grey Flannel's total offerings.

Yes, I know, basketball and football jerseys have become a big part of the AH scene, and I'm not knocking this auction because there is a lot of really great stuff in it. My point is, flannel jerseys are really drying up.

On an anecdotal note, I got a 1960 Indians home jersey (Dick Stigman) on ebay for $1065 with shipping and insurance 2 1/2 years ago, during the so-called covid boom. Last weekend I was the underbidder on a very similar 1960 Indians home shirt (Walt Bond) at Heritage, that went for twice as much. Had I continued to chase it, who knows where it would've topped out.

Overall, across all AH, flannel offerings are getting scarce, which means values are bound to move north.

Good point Mark! It’s like RMY auctions bringing type 1 photos to the market on a regular basis and making them mainstream and now most all AHs are offering them. Hakes is really good on pins and Cuban items I’ve seen over the last decade or so. Lipset back in the 90s is what got me collecting postcards, which at the time was a nitche. REA seems to be the leader on 19th century items and all around memorabilia with HA being close behind them. Goldin and PWCC are pushing shiny high graded modern cards as their bread and butter.

It would be nice to see more specialty auction houses to come into the market with items that not might not be mainstream yet. Heck, I feel I could start a company auctioning off auction catalogs, that have been sent to me over the last 4 decades including hobby publications.

Jerseys, bats, trophies, etc… Can get some serious money and I consider more mainstream than items listed in poll above. Interesting to see supplements are gaining support in the poll for having a lot of room for growth.

[oldjudge]

Since, in polls like this, people tend to vote for what they already own I maintain that the best investments are sheet music and pins since the fewest number own them. Since this is a hobby of lemmings, once a few more deep pocketed collectors get interested in them the prices will skyrocket.

[Aaron Seefeldt]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Since, in polls like this, people tend to vote for what they already own I maintain that the best investments are sheet music and pins since the fewest number own them. Since this is a hobby of lemmings, once a few more deep pocketed collectors get interested in them the prices will skyrocket.

+1
Pins & sheet music are also much scarcer than cards (on a whole)

[Chris-Counts]

I believe the values of pins will eventually surpass nearly everything because so many are extremely rare and attractive, and collectors are just beginning to realize this.

[BeanTown]

Originally Posted by Chris Counts

I believe the values of pins will eventually surpass nearly everything because so many are extremely rare and attractive, and collectors are just beginning to realize this.

Let’s not forget they are easy to store and display which Is a plus.

[BobC]

Question(s), in which of the four poll categories/choices offered should each of the following be included, or is it possible there should be more options, or at least a "None of the above" included in this poll?

Silks/Leathers (S74-1, S74-2, S81, S110, L1 Leathers, etc.)

Pennants (BF2, Cravats, etc.)

Felts/Blankets (BF18, B104, Ferguson Bakery Prize, etc.)

Stamps/Tattoos/Transfers (Red Sox Tatoos, Centennial of Baseball Stamps, German Baseball Stamps, German Baseball Transfers, Helmar Stamps, Piedmont Art Stamps, Postaco Stamps, Pritchard Publishing Giants/Yankees Stamps, Rinkydink Stamps, Sports Stamps-Various Newspapers, etc.)

Game Cards/Pieces (WG1/Allegheny Card Co., WG6/Tom Barker Game, WG2/3 Fan Craze, Inside Base Ball-Game Pieces, WG7/Walter Mails Game, 1921-20 Major League Die-Cuts, WG5/National Game, Parker Bros.-Tris Speaker, WG4/Polo Grounds Game, WG8 S&S Game, E.R. Williams Game, etc.)

Discs (Colgan's Chips, Colgan's Red Borders, Colgan's Tin Tops, Ju-Ju Drums, PX3 Double Header Coins/Discs, PX7 Domino Discs, etc.)

Flip Books/Movies (Goudey Thum Movies, Goudey Flip Movies, Wheaties Babe Ruth Flip Book, etc.)

Also, some of the aforementioned categories/choices aren't always so separate or exclusive. For example, you can find magazines with ads and comics for the Wheaties Babe Ruth Flip Books, so should the flip books and magazines be considered as somewhat the same or in the same category? Or, in regard to Jay's comment about sheet music and pins possibly being the two most likely choices for investment purposes, you can go for a copy of the "Babe Rith, Babe Ruth, We Know What He Can Do" sheet music AND also try to find the pin that was also put out in 1928 specifically publicizing that song and the sheet music.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Aaron Seefeldt

+1
Pins & sheet music are also much scarcer than cards (on a whole)

Lots of things are scarce. That doesn’t make them desirable.

Photos of Babe Ruth with horses for example are very scarce. Don’t make them desirable or a good investment.

Sheet music is interesting and indeed scarce, but don’t plan to retire on it. One persons undervalued is another persons “prices have hardly moved in 20 years for a reason”.

[obcbobd]

Buy what pleases you. If it appreciates in value and you resell; good for you! I would not necessarily count on that happening though. I don't think there are many undervalued baseball collectibles out there, and someday, perhaps well into the future, the bubble may burst

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by obcbobd

Buy what pleases you. If it appreciates in value and you resell; good for you! I would not necessarily count on that happening though. I don't think there are many undervalued baseball collectibles out there, and someday, perhaps well into the future, the bubble may burst

Good point. Certainly the current prices we see for these things are out of proportion to the popularity of baseball itself.

[TaxMechanick]

Yes, I believe pins and sheet music, for example, will have their day (again) at some point. The market is thin, and all it takes is a few serious collectors, either enjoying them for what they are or otherwise just believing there is good future value in acquiring them...
Personally, I like both areas, and, since I buy what I like (and enjoy what I collect), I'm happy to be the proud owner of some...

Using the Ty Cobb King of Clubs Sheet Music as an example, at one point I'll say 20+ years ago, whenever it came up for sale I recollect it was about a $3K-4K piece in reasonable condition. More recently, in say going back 2-10 years ago when it has come up for sale, it often went for under $1K. Over the last couple of years, I do not recollect seeing examples for sale (perhaps I remember 1 example in really rough shape), so I'm not sure what price it would fetch in post-covid times, with cards of Cobb, for example, skyrocketing? I suspect it could fetch some more, but certainly not proportunately so...

Regarding pins, P2s and other relatively common issues, from my view, I believe these issues have remained relatively firm with a solid collector base.

I'll use PM1s as an example... A number of years ago, Heritage had a small find in immaculate condition (I recollect perhaps 12 or so examples),that went for really strong proces relative to prior sales. However, there was a reason for that, as there were a couple or few really motivated buyers then. Since then, not so much... I haverecenly seen a few Cobb's offered for auction, none is so nice condition. Prices were not strong, as I expected. But, then again, Cobb is one of the more common (for the issue) players. Many other players, you rarely see example of, so I'm not sure...? Again, all it takes...

Another area I enjoy collecting are cigar labels (not so much so on the boxes with the labels on them as these are difficult to store and care for). Many of the labels are quite scarce or even rare or ultra rare with examples of 1 or just a few, and the beauty of the lithography just pops for me. These include ultra rare process proofs and scarce or rare salesman sample labels. I enjoy baseball and other sports (as football) more than others, but, I'm open to some other historical personalities and other americana-related subjects.

(To build on what Jay said) I suppose I'm a non-lemming, but, (as others have said) I buy what I like...

[brunswickreeves]

1909-13 M101-2 Sporting News Supplements, without a doubt. They're beautiful photographic larger than life images, and incredibly scarce. Value-wise, a PSA 1 Joe Jackson auctioned on 11/17/22 for $9.9K. HA just sold a PSA 1.5 on 5/11/23 for $16.2K. Additionally Honus Wagner's issue is getting it's due.

[The Detroit Collector]

My vote on what I actually think would rise, would be for Type 1 photographs. I have already seen a large attraction to them through AH's recently. More and more information is coming out on how to recognize type 1 photos and there seems to be a new thirst for them.

If I could pick which one I would personally like to rise, it would be supplements. They are the closet to cards out the options. The photos and artwork are beautiful. As Rhotchkiss mentioned buying one slabbed is already expensive.

[Exhibitman]

Team issue photos. They are poo-pooed as type 3 by PSA so the jump in prices hasn’t hit them like type 1 photos. Also AP news library small photos. They are pc size and dated and attributed in the photo so you know exactly when they were made and by who.

Signed Dr. J rookie team issue:



Jim Brown 1958 team issue:



1966 AP Paul Hornung, Sandy Koufax:

[SAllen2556]

I'm from a newspaper family, so I'm probably biased, but I think front pages like these are a really undervalued collectible. Nothing in my basement gets more stares than these old framed newspapers. Even my daughter and her friends can't help but look and read parts of it. I paid about $100 each for these unframed and would have paid twice that. I'm getting to the age where I figure if I can't display it, I'm getting rid of it!

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[Snapolit1]

I'm getting to the age where I figure if I can't display it, I'm getting rid of it!


I'm with you on that. Having cards in a safe deposit box or, worse yet, some company's vault, blows.

It's the stuff on the walls that I see every day that make me happy.

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

I'm from a newspaper family, so I'm probably biased, but I think front pages like these are a really undervalued collectible. Nothing in my basement gets more stares than these old framed newspapers. Even my daughter and her friends can't help but look and read parts of it. I paid about $100 each for these unframed and would have paid twice that. I'm getting to the age where I figure if I can't display it, I'm getting rid of it!

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[BeanTown]

Looks like Type 1 photos is the kind of the poll so far. It’s a coin flip for second place between Pins and Supplements. This authentic trimmed Cobb went for over 5k last night with spirited bidding of over 70 bids. I enjoy larger stuff to display and show, but I also get worried about theft and other things that could happen displaying valuable items.

[anchorednw]

I have recently picked up Type 1 and Supplements of Ty Cobb and personally and I find them to be very attractive pieces and having room to run some as more surface in PSA slabs to the public. Granted I think the Type 1 need to be compelling photos or have a story, but I believe in them both. Here is a recent M101-2 Ty Cobb Sporting News Supplements PSA Authentic pickup of mine.

[EddieP]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Quality “Type 1” Photos are already so valuable as it is and more people are getting into them.

Personally, they don’t really do much for me as for the most part I collect things that were distributed to the general public and that isn’t Type 1 photos. They almost more akin to a piece of art than a collectible to me.

That’s because photos ARE works of art. The problem with sports photographs are the TPGs and the sports memoriabilia crowd being influenced by them. So much so that the standards used to protect and preserve Works of Art are not used for sports photo. Which is a damn shame.

Looking at the prices of sports photos you could see the basic lack of understanding of photos. For example, calling a Type 3 and Type 4 photos “Original” is ludicrous. Having a Type 2 photo sell less than a Type 3 ( unless its a significant historical event) and Type 4 photo is stupidity. A book that is often recommended by others in this forum so happens to be written by people working at PSA; this just further compounds the proble.

[RCMcKenzie]

I agree, Eddie, I voted photos, but the thing about photos is that anyone can right click and save on an Ansel Adams, print it up, and frame it, and you have what they have. I included a lower quality photo of my Boston Imperial cabinet so you all can't print up a nice copy of it.

[notfast]

Originally Posted by anchorednw

I have recently picked up Type 1 and Supplements of Ty Cobb and personally and I find them to be very attractive pieces and having room to run some as more surface in PSA slabs to the public. Granted I think the Type 1 need to be compelling photos or have a story, but I believe in them both. Here is a recent M101-2 Ty Cobb Sporting News Supplements PSA Authentic pickup of mine.

Congrats on the win. I was the 2nd highest bidder.

Seemed like a decent price but not my wheelhouse.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Title of thread needs to be changed. It sounds like you're looking for post-war advice.

[EddieP]

Long term: Jim Rowe RPPCs. Pretty well established that Rowe used Burke’s 1930s-40s era original negatives to print his PCs. Once people start to get priced out of Type 1 photos, they’ ll realize the value of Types 2/3 and flock to them. Rowe’s postcards cost the same as a run of the mill PC and are much, much , much cheaper than current Type 2 photos.

Long shot: pre-war Pocket schedules. A 1917 Boston Red Sox Pocket Schedule depicting Babe Ruth in a Team Photo (Type 3) sold for a little over $2000 and a Tigers Pocket Schedule with Ty Cobb (Type 3) sold for about $400 on eBay.

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I disagree on pins. Hakes has wonderfdul catalogs full of beautiful pins. They leave me cold. Even cool old Gehrig pins just don't move the needle for me. Often kind of small and boring imagery. I think will always be niche.

+1

Pins arent going anywhere.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Yeah, I've never understood why so many people dump pins in with cards and other flat items. They do less than nothing for me as a collectible but to each his own.

[BioCRN]

Since the mid-late 90s when graded cards started to gain steam, I've financed a notable chunk of my personal collection buying and storing slabs of guys that I felt would be HOF'rs one day, but are under-represented or under-collected.

Most recently, a decade+ of buying Jim Kaat and Scott Rolen rookies paid off very well.

I'm currently sitting on a years-long collected stack of Jim Leyland 1986-87 graded of 8-10s that were picked up for next to nothing. Billy Wagner is no longer being ignored, nor is he in the HOF yet, but people have starting snagging his stuff and they're no longer a bargain. If I wanted to flip the Wagners I have, I could make a healthy profit, but I'm waiting for the bigger payoff.

It's a lane of collecting that means you're sitting on cards for years (even a decade+), but when the HOF announcement rush starts you're swimming in profit even when inflation adjusted.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by puckpaul

Pins arent going anywhere.

I am not sure about that. A Cobb Sweet Caporal PSA 7 sold for $2100 last weekend in REA. A 7 sold for $1200 16 months ago. It is a fraction of the card price for a T card but not an inconsequential amount. A 1949 Jackie Robinson went for $4080.

A year ago I paid $330 for a beautiful SC Young pin. I think that will turn out to be a very good deal.

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

I am not sure about that. A Cobb Sweet Caporal PSA 7 sold for $2100 last weekend in REA. A 7 sold for $1200 16 months ago. It is a fraction of the card price for a T card but not an inconsequential amount. A 1949 Jackie Robinson went for $4080.

A year ago I paid $330 for a beautiful SC Young pin. I think that will turn out to be a very good deal.

Ok, sure, the SC pins are definitely an interesting collectible. Was thinking more general pins not part of a set. Are there many vintage pin “sets” that i am not thinking about? Ornate pins (cool but rare)…orbits (not very attractive).