Is V153 really Canadian and V?

[G1911]

After another couple days of research, I'm pretty sure the Canadian origin of this set is a busted myth. Burdick, while closer in time to the sets, had few resources beyond people's memory and I doubt anyone was reminiscing with him about this obscure set. It's close to the border, where cards surely flowed in Canada and some may have been found there. It stretches credulity to presume that it was a Canadian firm of this name that doesn't seem to have any evidence it existed instead of a firm of the same name in NYC, the capital of the printing and card world at that time.

This appears to actually be an E set, whether it should be catalogued as E76 as part of the same issue or treated as a separate E issue (Like T220/T223, T218/T219, T206/T213/T214/T215 where the same images were used in a different printing or format or later in time) I'm not sure.

Would love to be proven wrong if anyone has any evidence for what all the books and catalogs and checklists say.

[RCMcKenzie]

I don't search for these, but I have not seen many for sale. I know I saw or bid on a Fitzsimmons on eBay a few years ago. There was a 2010 sale by HA that states that they were "made for the Canadian market." Were the cards made in New York, but distributed in Canada? The winner of the lot got 13/20 in nice shape for under $800. I know they also made jockey cards.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

I don't search for these, but I have not seen many for sale. I know I saw or bid on a Fitzsimmons on eBay a few years ago. There was a 2010 sale by HA that states that they were "made for the Canadian market." Were the cards made in New York, but distributed in Canada? The winner of the lot got 13/20 in nice shape for under $800. I know they also made jockey cards.

It doesn't appear they were made in NY for the Canadian market. The NY business is a small business operating out of a single storefront (that would explain why these cards are so brutal to find) that doesn't seem to have distributed widely. I can't find any evidence that any candy from a Robertson Candy Co. was sold outside of New York City anywhere in the world at this time.

As far as I can tell, every subsequence resource to Burdick has just repeated that it is Canadian because that is what he catalogued it as, and there has been no inquiry or research. When Burdick did his research, this NY firm appears to have been a relic of the past, but there was a Robertson Candy Co. in Canada (which didn't exist when the cards were issued, founded in 1928).

They are probably printed in the NY area, but that is a deductive guess and we cannot know at this juncture.

The cards were either issued by this small local manufacturer (or repackager?) and retailer, or by a different business of the same name. If it is a different business, there must be evidence that they existed. If there is nothing that indicates this alleged Canadian firm existed, then the set must be an E card issue from the local NY manufacturer.

[RCMcKenzie]

What do you make of the v150 jockeys supposedly appearing in 1910, 2 years before the e47 mirror set. I'm getting this info from Anson's prewar site. I have e75 and 76 and n22 AG and e47, but I don't have any Robertson's cards. Here are pics of the jockey cards (not my cards).

I would expect a small company to copy a big company's set, instead of the other way around. Did American Caramel ever own Robertson's?

[G1911]

Robertson appears to have been around through at least 1918, when they are still listed at the 256 Grenwhich address in city directories. American Caramel had an address at 233 Broadway in NYC, but they were headquartered in York, PA. They controlled most of the caramel industry in the US after they bought Lancaster from Milton Hershey.

I have found no evidence that the American Caramel company owned the Robertson Candy Company. Robertson is a small business, $10K is something like ~$300K today, their capital makes sense for a small operation and storefront. It is, though, entirely possible they were a subsidiary front. In the time of the anti-monopoly laws and much vagueness about what the federal government was really going to do, many industries dominated by a single company seem to be using informal shell companies to try and make it look more competitive. In the T220 Silver thread we've found much that strongly suggests this was exactly the case for American Lithography, and American Tobacco. Since the purpose of these smaller subsidiaries was to remain clandestine and appear to not be what they actually were, we aren't going to find a document saying this in journals and newspapers; if such a document was ever made and survived it would be in an archive or attic somewhere.

While the ATC and their friends Knapp and AL clearly had some kind of exclusivity agreement, I don't think its clear this was the case for most of the E cards. Lots of anonymous cards, lots of sets that seem to have been printed to advertise multiple products or companies, it could be that Robertson was one of many clandestine subsidiaries, or that someone there thought it would be a good idea to do what the big boys were doing

For the dates, I would be shocked if the Robertson sets predated the ACC ones. They must be the same time or after; it doesn't make sense the other way around.

That prewarcards site makes a lot of claims to fact, almost none of which are sourced. Many come from hobby tradition and are wrong because much of hobby tradition has never been researched, others they seem to have invented and are directly at odds with all evidence and the ledgers. Just looking at the T cards I've looked into the most, T218 is not 1910-1912 nor issued by Honest, it's 1910-1911 (as the ledger makes clear). T219 is not a 1910 set (impossible, some of the cards it copies weren't made until 1911). T220 is 1910-1911, not just 1910. T225 is not a 1911 set, it is an early 1910 set as the Fullgraff ledger makes clear. T9 is 1910-1911, not just 1911. T223 is probably a 1910-1911 or 1911 release, not 1910, the answer to this one probably lies in the Fullgraff ledger if we ever got to see a full copy of all pages. T227 appears dated correct, but sure wasn't issued by Mecca. The site is riddled with false dates and claims in regards to the boxing cards at least.


I have an E75 master, E76, most of E47 and no Robertson's. The Robertson's are brutal to find; no idea what they are really worth nowadays as I haven't seen any recent sale the last couple years. Had one as a type on my wantlist.

[RCMcKenzie]

Interesting stuff to think about. I think Anson said he was using PSA's issue dates. I agree that PSA does not know.

I would think Robertson would have copied the design of American Caramel, or maybe used with permission, and agree Robertson would have to have been a later or concurrent issue.

[G1911]

Bradshaw was the director of Crown Sweets Co. in 1908 according to the Trow corporate directory (https://www.google.com/books/edition...J?hl=en&gbpv=0). He seems to be career candy man.

The 1919 edition of Trows has two listings for Robertson Candy Co., one dissolved. Not clear on what that means exactly https://www.google.com/books/edition...sec=frontcover

They were apparently so small time that even when placing paid ads, their name was sometimes got wrong. The Spatula calls them the “Robinson Candy Company”, contrary to the sign off even, at the end of 1918 (https://www.google.com/books/edition...sec=frontcover, 154)

Bradshaw was apparently the candy man running the business. Robertson presumably provided the capital.

By June of 1923 they have moved to 31 Jay St, advertising that their fruit tables “prevents the taking in of much dust” when driving cars. (https://www.google.com/books/edition...sec=frontcover, 322). They were at the 286 Greenwich Street address into 1919 at least.


Bradshaw has some popping corn patents, and seems to be doing other things by November of 1921, when advertisements for his own companies popcorn run adjacent to Robertson advertisements in the Confectioners Journal (https://www.google.com/books/edition...sec=frontcover - November, 2). He might still be working with Robertson to. For baseball collectors, one page above the Robertson and Bradshaw ads, is one for the Croft & Allen Co. showing a drawing of their buildings in Philadelphia (November, 1).

They seem to fade from visibility after 1923 or so.


I found in Canada a Robertson Bros. Ltd. firm in the confectionary candy space, from the 19th century into the 1920’s at least in the Toronto area. They always seem to go by Robertson Bros. or Robertson Brothers, never once “Robertson Candy Co.” or something close to that beyond also having a “Robertson” own it. This firm was a larger operation and its founding brother wealthy Scottish immigrants. There are numerous advertisements, columns, press reports, journal articles and biographical entries of its founders easily found. I think this is not our company either, like the later Robertson Candy Co. in Canada that existed in Burdick’s day but not when the cards were issued, and has the wrong name. It is another possible explanation for how the Canadian origin was placed onto the cards though, as it is similar sounding.

Still cannot find a "Robertson Candy Co." or "Robertson Candy" in Canada during the period the cards are apparently from.